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  #1  
Old 11-11-2019, 10:12 AM
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Default CA FFL Look up?

I know that I can look up FFL's on a Federal level.

Is there a way to look up whether said FFL is set up to do CA transfers?
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
I know that I can look up FFL's on a Federal level.

Is there a way to look up whether said FFL is set up to do CA transfers?
I think the only FFLs you can expect to do CA-compliant transfers are those on the centralized list:
Quote:
26700.

As used in this division, and in any other provision listed in Section 16580, “dealer,” “licensee,” or “person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive” means a person who satisfies all of the following requirements:

(a) Has a valid federal firearms license.

(b) Has any regulatory or business license, or licenses, required by local government.

(c) Has a valid seller’s permit issued by the State Board of Equalization.

(d) Has a certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.

(e) Has a license issued in the format prescribed by subdivision (c) of Section 26705.

(f) Is among those recorded in the centralized list specified in Section 26715.
and
Quote:
26715.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in paragraphs (1) and (3) of subdivision (b), the Department of Justice shall keep a centralized list of all persons licensed pursuant to subdivisions (a) to (e), inclusive, of Section 26700.
...
(c) Information compiled from the list shall be made available, upon request, for the following purposes only:

(1) For law enforcement purposes.

(2) When the information is requested by a person licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code for determining the validity of the license for firearm shipments.

(3) When information is requested by a person promoting, sponsoring, operating, or otherwise organizing a show or event as defined in Section 478.100 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor, who possesses a valid certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 27200) of Chapter 3, if that information is requested by the person to determine the eligibility of a prospective participant in a gun show or event to conduct transactions as a firearms dealer pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 26805.
Doesn't appear that the list is accessible by the public.

OTOH, if the Feds show an active FFL with a business location in CA, pretty likely that FFL is 'on the list'.
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  #3  
Old 11-11-2019, 1:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
I think the only FFLs you can expect to do CA-compliant transfers are those on the centralized list:

and Doesn't appear that the list is accessible by the public.



OTOH, if the Feds show an active FFL with a business location in CA, pretty likely that FFL is 'on the list'.
Correct, as far as I know the CA dealer list isn't public.

A FFL can be an exempt CA FFL, such as a gunsmith, which means that they can't do transfers. There is no way to tell by the FFL list.

The bottom line is that unless the FFL is listed somewhere as doing transfers, most likely they don't, so look at the FFL database will likely be a waste of time.
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Old 11-11-2019, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
Correct, as far as I know the CA dealer list isn't public.

A FFL can be an exempt CA FFL, such as a gunsmith, which means that they can't do transfers. There is no way to tell by the FFL list.

The bottom line is that unless the FFL is listed somewhere as doing transfers, most likely they don't, so look at the FFL database will likely be a waste of time.
Thanks for that info.

I was trying to figure out if the dealer can do transfers and doesn't want to because he works out of the house or if he really can't do transfers.

I guess the world will never know.
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Old 11-11-2019, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
Thanks for that info.



I was trying to figure out if the dealer can do transfers and doesn't want to because he works out of the house or if he really can't do transfers.



I guess the world will never know.
You can ask, but you can't know unless you somehow get access to the CA records.

If the person says they don't want to do a transfer, nothing else really matters.
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Old 11-11-2019, 2:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
You can ask, but you can't know unless you somehow get access to the CA records.

If the person says they don't WANT to do a transfer, nothing else really matters.
That's my whole problem. If they CAN"T do transfers I'd probably still by the gun from them and pay the transfer fee of my LGS which is only $25.

But, if he doesn't WANT to do them then I'm not going to buy anything from a dealer not willing to sell to fellow Californians.
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  #7  
Old 11-11-2019, 4:14 PM
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Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
That's my whole problem. If they CAN"T do transfers I'd probably still by the gun from them and pay the transfer fee of my LGS which is only $25.



But, if he doesn't WANT to do them then I'm not going to buy anything from a dealer not willing to sell to fellow Californians.
So are you saying that they are selling firearms, but saying that they can't do the transfer themselves? If so, that is a problem since exempt FFLs are exempt because they are not selling. Based on that, it sounds like a place to avoid. If they are in CA, then they would be responsible for the sales tax, which if they are not properly licensed, would be another problem.
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Old 11-11-2019, 4:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
So are you saying that they are selling firearms, but saying that they can't do the transfer themselves? If so, that is a problem since exempt FFLs are exempt because they are not selling. Based on that, it sounds like a place to avoid. If they are in CA, then they would be responsible for the sales tax, which if they are not properly licensed, would be another problem.
I had first asked them if they could do a PPT. I got a reply saying that they could not. That the gun had to be sent to my LGS for transfer. They are in the OC so I asked them if they were an FFL and if they could do the transfer themselves. No reply.

I looked at the ATF list of FFL's in CA and based on the GunBroker user name and the location I found an FFL with a matching description. He's on 01 and his license expires in 2021. That's why I was wondering if some dealers CAN'T do transfers.

I probably won't bid on this gun. Based on what you are saying it sounds like he's doing things that he shouldn't be. Too bad he's offering up something I've been wanting for a long time. It's not in pristine condition and that's how I like my old guns.
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  #9  
Old 11-12-2019, 9:17 AM
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Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
I had first asked them if they could do a PPT. I got a reply saying that they could not. That the gun had to be sent to my LGS for transfer. They are in the OC so I asked them if they were an FFL and if they could do the transfer themselves. No reply.

I looked at the ATF list of FFL's in CA and based on the GunBroker user name and the location I found an FFL with a matching description. He's on 01 and his license expires in 2021. That's why I was wondering if some dealers CAN'T do transfers.

I probably won't bid on this gun. Based on what you are saying it sounds like he's doing things that he shouldn't be. Too bad he's offering up something I've been wanting for a long time. It's not in pristine condition and that's how I like my old guns.
It's possible he's an exempt FFL (like a gunsmith) and he's selling something from his personal inventory as well which is why he said he has to ship it..

It's not like he's hiding anything if he's home based because he can be looked up on the fed level.

Another way you can try to decipher is search some of the big FFL databases online like https://www.budsgunshop.com/ffl.php -- if you see them listed there that means they have accepted a firearm TO transfer at some point.
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2019, 9:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
It's possible he's an exempt FFL (like a gunsmith) and he's selling something from his personal inventory as well which is why he said he has to ship it..



It's not like he's hiding anything if he's home based because he can be looked up on the fed level.



Another way you can try to decipher is search some of the big FFL databases online like https://www.budsgunshop.com/ffl.php -- if you see them listed there that means they have accepted a firearm TO transfer at some point.
Well like Kemasa said exempt FFL's aren't supposed to be selling. And, in his GB add he doesn't say that he's collecting sales tax.

If it's from his "personal" inventory then there's no reason not to do a PPT.



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  #11  
Old 11-12-2019, 9:40 AM
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Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
Well like Kemasa said exempt FFL's aren't supposed to be selling. And, in his GB add he doesn't say that he's collecting sales tax.

If it's from his "personal" inventory then there's no reason not to do a PPT.



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If he isn't collecting sales tax it's probably because it's from his personal inventory. There's nothing that prevents a gunsmith from creating a gunbroker account as an FFL and selling stuff from his personal inventory.

If he's selling stuff from his personal inventory, he's not using his FFL to sell, and still cannot do the DROS if he is a gunsmith (for example).

Likewise, I see many accounts on gunbrokers NOT listed as FFLs (they were the person's personal account) that later end up being FFLs.

An exmpt FFL cannot sell from FFL inventory.

I as an FFL can definitely sell from my personal collection with NO impact to my FFL. It comes down to documentation and in the case of CA frequency.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:02 AM
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If your in Ontario use ace pawm 25 buck transfers.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
If he isn't collecting sales tax it's probably because it's from his personal inventory. There's nothing that prevents a gunsmith from creating a gunbroker account as an FFL and selling stuff from his personal inventory.
A person would need to be careful when selling a person gun and using the business since it could be considered that sales tax would be required to be paid.

Some people choose to violate the law by not collecting sales tax in order to make more sales, so it isn't always a good idea to assume that they are following the law.

Quote:
If he's selling stuff from his personal inventory, he's not using his FFL to sell, and still cannot do the DROS if he is a gunsmith (for example).
That is not clear that he isn't using his business to sell the firearm. The CDTFA would have to decide if the sales tax was an issue, especially if accounts which are used for the business are used.

Quote:
Likewise, I see many accounts on gunbrokers NOT listed as FFLs (they were the person's personal account) that later end up being FFLs.

An exmpt FFL cannot sell from FFL inventory.

I as an FFL can definitely sell from my personal collection with NO impact to my FFL. It comes down to documentation and in the case of CA frequency.
But as said, if it is a personal gun, it could be transferred as a CA PPT, which would serve to document that it was actually a personal gun. A gunsmith could get a firearm from a customer who didn't pay and then decide to sell it to recover expenses, which would be considered a business gun.

The bottom line is that it could be a lot of different things and it is impossible to know whether all the laws are being followed or not since we don't have all the information.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
If he isn't collecting sales tax it's probably because it's from his personal inventory. There's nothing that prevents a gunsmith from creating a gunbroker account as an FFL and selling stuff from his personal inventory.

If he's selling stuff from his personal inventory, he's not using his FFL to sell, and still cannot do the DROS if he is a gunsmith (for example).

Likewise, I see many accounts on gunbrokers NOT listed as FFLs (they were the person's personal account) that later end up being FFLs.

An exmpt FFL cannot sell from FFL inventory.

I as an FFL can definitely sell from my personal collection with NO impact to my FFL. It comes down to documentation and in the case of CA frequency.
Like I said if it's from his personal collection there's no reason not to do a PPT. I've bought a gun from the personal collection of an FFL holder. He did the PPT himself and was nice enough to only charge me the $25 background check fee and not the $10 FFL profit for doing a PPT.

This guy has refused to do a PPT. Making it seem like it's not a personal gun but a business gun. And the fact that he won't respond to any more questions from me also makes me think that this is a business gun and that he knows that he doesn't want to answer questions about holding an FFL.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:50 AM
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If your in Ontario use ace pawm 25 buck transfers.
Why would I drive all the way out there when Ryenex in Chino Hills will do it for $25?

But in all seriousness, the part that I don't like is the lack of being upfront with why he's doing what he's doing. The other part is the transfer fee.

If he would do the transfer(if he could) then it would only cost $25. If it was in his personal collection then there's no reason not to do a PPT which would only cost $35. He says that it has to be shipped = extra cost. Shipping it to my LGS means not a PPT = extra cost($25 @ Ryenex)

I would rather not have to pay all of these extra fees for no reason.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
Like I said if it's from his personal collection there's no reason not to do a PPT. I've bought a gun from the personal collection of an FFL holder. He did the PPT himself and was nice enough to only charge me the $25 background check fee and not the $10 FFL profit for doing a PPT.

This guy has refused to do a PPT. Making it seem like it's not a personal gun but a business gun. And the fact that he won't respond to any more questions from me also makes me think that this is a business gun and that he knows that he doesn't want to answer questions about holding an FFL.
I read the bold as "Do a PPT at his location" vs do a PPT at some other location.. hence my confusion with what you were saying..
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:57 AM
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Why would I drive all the way out there when Ryenex in Chino Hills will do it for $25?



But in all seriousness, the part that I don't like is the lack of being upfront with why he's doing what he's doing. The other part is the transfer fee.



If he would do the transfer(if he could) then it would only cost $25. If it was in his personal collection then there's no reason not to do a PPT which would only cost $35. He says that it has to be shipped = extra cost. Shipping it to my LGS means not a PPT = extra cost($25 @ Ryenex)



I would rather not have to pay all of these extra fees for no reason.
You would also need a letter stating that it is a private sale, an occasional sale and not from a business to not have to pay sales tax. Otherwise it is assumed to be subject to sales tax.

It would be interesting to see how he transferred it to the other dealer, would it be claimed to come from him personally or would it be from his business. His bound book would explain things, but that would take the BATF.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:04 AM
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Could be that the seller on GB just doesn't feel like dealing with the PPT process. Maybe for him its just easier to ship to an FFL rather than driving to meet up someplace and deal with that process. Or, maybe he has already PPT'd quite a few this year and doesn't want to flirt with the line of doing too many PPT transactions.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:08 AM
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Could be that the seller on GB just doesn't feel like dealing with the PPT process. Maybe for him its just easier to ship to an FFL rather than driving to meet up someplace and deal with that process. Or, maybe he has already PPT'd quite a few this year and doesn't want to flirt with the line of doing too many PPT transactions.
Yes, it could be, but it also could be other things, such as the seller doesn't feel like dealing with getting all the proper licenses/permits. Could be nothing, could be something.

Would you prefer to ship something or just drive it there and do a PPT?
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Old 11-12-2019, 2:23 PM
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Personally, unless the buyer was coming here to do the PPT, I probably would NOT want to go elsewhere to do it, and would just ship the darn thing. I cant imagine standing around a Turners or Bass Pro or whatever for 2 hours while we wait to do a damn PPT that I can do in 15 minutes. I've sold 2 or 3 personal guns here on calguns and always say I'll do the PPT here and waive the $10 extra cost if we do it here. I've also met a buyer at a cousin store of ours and basically did the PPT myself there too. I would hate to do the whole waiting bit.
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Old 11-12-2019, 2:37 PM
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Personally, unless the buyer was coming here to do the PPT, I probably would NOT want to go elsewhere to do it, and would just ship the darn thing. I cant imagine standing around a Turners or Bass Pro or whatever for 2 hours while we wait to do a damn PPT that I can do in 15 minutes. I've sold 2 or 3 personal guns here on calguns and always say I'll do the PPT here and waive the $10 extra cost if we do it here. I've also met a buyer at a cousin store of ours and basically did the PPT myself there too. I would hate to do the whole waiting bit.
And I asked him if he was an FFL dealer and could do the transfer. I would have no problem driving to his place. I've asked him twice if will do the transfer and he won't respond.

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