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  #1  
Old 08-03-2019, 6:22 PM
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ronlglock ronlglock is offline
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Default FFL-01 for “borrowing” firearms?

I write for a couple LE magazines and just finished up an article on RDS (red dots). Some manufacturers wanted to send me samples of unreleased firearms with integrated RDS to try out and write up for the article — but they are off roster.

My editor would love me to get more into firearms so my question is whether or not it would be a good idea to get an FFL-01 solely for bringing off-roster guns in for up to 90 days of testing before shipping them back.

My CLEO has no problem approving an FFL-01 but the planning commission won’t add the “good for the sale of firearms” text onto my existing business license that I use for firearms training and writing.

Comments or other ideas?
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Last edited by ronlglock; 08-03-2019 at 6:28 PM..
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2019, 6:29 PM
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ's Avatar
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ is offline
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There are exceptions in the Penal Code for consultant-evaluators. One of those exceptions is to the roster under PC32110(j). PC16410 defines a consultant-evaluator: As used in this part, “consultant-evaluator” means a consultant or evaluator who, in the course of that person’s profession is loaned firearms from a person licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, for research or evaluation, and has a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2019, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ View Post
There are exceptions in the Penal Code for consultant-evaluators. One of those exceptions is to the roster under PC32110(j). PC16410 defines a consultant-evaluator: As used in this part, “consultant-evaluator” means a consultant or evaluator who, in the course of that person’s profession is loaned firearms from a person licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, for research or evaluation, and has a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.

Yes, I read this and talked to a couple San Francisco peninsula FFLs who didn’t want to be a part of it. Hence my own FFL-01.


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  #4  
Old 08-04-2019, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
Yes, I read this and talked to a couple San Francisco peninsula FFLs who didn’t want to be a part of it. Hence my own FFL-01.


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Do you need your FFL to be a consultant/evaluator? Why would you have to involve an FFL?

Also, you don't need the for resale of firearms blurb on your license if that's not what you're doing. Gunsmiths don't do that. Find out from ATF what they need to see on business license for what you'll be doing and that may resolve your issue with them.
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2019, 7:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
Do you need your FFL to be a consultant/evaluator? Why would you have to involve an FFL?
No.
Because CA laws.



Penal Code 16410
As used in this part, “consultant-evaluator” means a consultant or evaluator who, in the course of that person’s profession is loaned firearms from a person licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, for research or evaluation, and has a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.

Penal Code 27005
(a) Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) does not apply to the loan of an unloaded firearm to a consultant-evaluator by a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, if the loan does not exceed 45 days from the date of delivery.
(b) At the time of the loan, the consultant-evaluator shall provide the following information, which the dealer shall retain for two years:
(1) A photocopy of a valid, current, government-issued identification to determine the consultant-evaluator’s identity, including, but not limited to, a California driver’s license, identification card, or passport.
(2) A photocopy of the consultant-evaluator’s valid, current certificate of eligibility.
(3) A letter from the person licensed as an importer, manufacturer, or dealer pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code, with whom the consultant-evaluator has a bona fide business relationship. The letter shall detail the bona fide business purposes for which the firearm is being loaned and confirm that the consultant-evaluator is being loaned the firearm as part of a bona fide business relationship.
(4) The signature of the consultant-evaluator on a form indicating the date the firearm is loaned and the last day the firearm may be returned.

Penal Code 27750
(a) Section 27540 does not apply to the loan of an unloaded firearm to a consultant-evaluator by a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, if the loan does not exceed 45 days from the date of delivery.
(b) At the time of the loan, the consultant-evaluator shall provide the following information, which the dealer shall retain for two years:
(1) A photocopy of a valid, current, government-issued identification to determine the consultant-evaluator’s identity, including, but not limited to, a California driver’s license, identification card, or passport.
(2) A photocopy of the consultant-evaluator’s valid, current certificate of eligibility.
(3) A letter from the person licensed as an importer, manufacturer, or dealer pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code, with whom the consultant-evaluator has a bona fide business relationship. The letter shall detail the bona fide business purposes for which the firearm is being loaned and confirm that the consultant-evaluator is being loaned the firearm as part of a bona fide business relationship.
(4) The signature of the consultant-evaluator on a form indicating the date the firearm is loaned and the last day the firearm may be returned.

Penal Code 27815
(a) Section 27555 does not apply to the loan of an unloaded firearm to a consultant-evaluator by a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, if the loan does not exceed 45 days from the date of delivery.
(b) At the time of the loan, the consultant-evaluator shall provide the following information, which the dealer shall retain for two years:
(1) A photocopy of a valid, current, government-issued identification to determine the consultant-evaluator’s identity, including, but not limited to, a California driver’s license, identification card, or passport.
(2) A photocopy of the consultant-evaluator’s valid, current certificate of eligibility.
(3) A letter from the person licensed as an importer, manufacturer, or dealer pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code, with whom the consultant-evaluator has a bona fide business relationship. The letter shall detail the bona fide business purposes for which the firearm is being loaned and confirm that the consultant-evaluator is being loaned the firearm as part of a bona fide business relationship.
(4) The signature of the consultant-evaluator on a form indicating the date the firearm is loaned and the last day the firearm may be returned.

Penal Code 32110
Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to any of the following:
(j) The delivery of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, where the firearm is being loaned by the licensee to a consultant-evaluator.
(k) The return of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person to a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, where it was initially delivered pursuant to subdivision (j).
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Last edited by Quiet; 08-04-2019 at 7:44 AM..
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2019, 12:48 PM
taperxz taperxz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
Yes, I read this and talked to a couple San Francisco peninsula FFLs who didn’t want to be a part of it. Hence my own FFL-01.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
In this state, you need to at least be an employee of a gun store (in all practicality, not legally) which includes the need for a COE.

Bigger issue would be that the FFL holder would need to have a whole lotta trust in you to take these guns out of the store and return them. Lost and stolen guns are a real bad thing for an FFL. Ask the owners from High Bridge about guns missing from their A&D book

Last edited by taperxz; 08-04-2019 at 12:50 PM..
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2019, 8:16 PM
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ronlglock ronlglock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
No.
Because CA laws.


Penal Code 16410
As used in this part, “consultant-evaluator” means a consultant or evaluator who, in the course of that person’s profession is loaned firearms from a person licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, for research or evaluation, and has a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.

Penal Code 27005
(a) Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) does not apply to the loan of an unloaded firearm to a consultant-evaluator by a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, if the loan does not exceed 45 days from the date of delivery.
(b) At the time of the loan, the consultant-evaluator shall provide the following information, which the dealer shall retain for two years:
(1) A photocopy of a valid, current, government-issued identification to determine the consultant-evaluator’s identity, including, but not limited to, a California driver’s license, identification card, or passport.
(2) A photocopy of the consultant-evaluator’s valid, current certificate of eligibility.
(3) A letter from the person licensed as an importer, manufacturer, or dealer pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code, with whom the consultant-evaluator has a bona fide business relationship. The letter shall detail the bona fide business purposes for which the firearm is being loaned and confirm that the consultant-evaluator is being loaned the firearm as part of a bona fide business relationship.
(4) The signature of the consultant-evaluator on a form indicating the date the firearm is loaned and the last day the firearm may be returned.

Penal Code 27750
(a) Section 27540 does not apply to the loan of an unloaded firearm to a consultant-evaluator by a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, if the loan does not exceed 45 days from the date of delivery.
(b) At the time of the loan, the consultant-evaluator shall provide the following information, which the dealer shall retain for two years:
(1) A photocopy of a valid, current, government-issued identification to determine the consultant-evaluator’s identity, including, but not limited to, a California driver’s license, identification card, or passport.
(2) A photocopy of the consultant-evaluator’s valid, current certificate of eligibility.
(3) A letter from the person licensed as an importer, manufacturer, or dealer pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code, with whom the consultant-evaluator has a bona fide business relationship. The letter shall detail the bona fide business purposes for which the firearm is being loaned and confirm that the consultant-evaluator is being loaned the firearm as part of a bona fide business relationship.
(4) The signature of the consultant-evaluator on a form indicating the date the firearm is loaned and the last day the firearm may be returned.

Penal Code 27815
(a) Section 27555 does not apply to the loan of an unloaded firearm to a consultant-evaluator by a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, if the loan does not exceed 45 days from the date of delivery.
(b) At the time of the loan, the consultant-evaluator shall provide the following information, which the dealer shall retain for two years:
(1) A photocopy of a valid, current, government-issued identification to determine the consultant-evaluator’s identity, including, but not limited to, a California driver’s license, identification card, or passport.
(2) A photocopy of the consultant-evaluator’s valid, current certificate of eligibility.
(3) A letter from the person licensed as an importer, manufacturer, or dealer pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code, with whom the consultant-evaluator has a bona fide business relationship. The letter shall detail the bona fide business purposes for which the firearm is being loaned and confirm that the consultant-evaluator is being loaned the firearm as part of a bona fide business relationship.
(4) The signature of the consultant-evaluator on a form indicating the date the firearm is loaned and the last day the firearm may be returned.

Penal Code 32110
Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to any of the following:
(j) The delivery of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, where the firearm is being loaned by the licensee to a consultant-evaluator.
(k) The return of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person to a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, where it was initially delivered pursuant to subdivision (j).

The word “dealer” is used multiple times and I assume that means an FFL? Since my local FFL don’t want to process the loan, it seems that I need my own FFL to do so. Anyone have contact info for a friendly CA DOJ agent who can talk me through getting on the Centralized List of Firearms Dealers?
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Last edited by ronlglock; 11-15-2019 at 7:27 AM..
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2019, 7:24 AM
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OCArmory OCArmory is offline
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You don’t need the retail sales verbiage. You can get added to the centralized list as an exempt FFL. We have a couple down here. You will not be able to do a DROS. Send me an email with your contact info and I will walk you through it. Sales@ocarmory.com
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  #9  
Old 10-27-2019, 1:11 PM
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ronlglock ronlglock is offline
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Originally Posted by OCArmory View Post
You don’t need the retail sales verbiage. You can get added to the centralized list as an exempt FFL. We have a couple down here. You will not be able to do a DROS. Send me an email with your contact info and I will walk you through it. Sales@ocarmory.com
Thank you for your help!!
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Last edited by ronlglock; 11-15-2019 at 7:27 AM..
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