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  #1  
Old 10-10-2019, 7:10 PM
taperxz taperxz is offline
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Default Residency issue for an 03. NEED HELP

Customer had an 03. Getting a German Luger

The FFL 03 has an address on it however it’s different than his declared residence.

The 03 license doesn’t establish residency for ATF or Cal DOJ

He has all current regular documents to his residency for a normal CA C&R DROS.

How would this proceed or not?

My thoughts are that an FFL is address specific like an 01

Last edited by taperxz; 10-10-2019 at 8:23 PM..
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2019, 9:39 PM
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resolved

Last edited by checkplease; 10-21-2019 at 7:52 PM..
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  #3  
Old 10-10-2019, 9:44 PM
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https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...ta=(sc.Default)
A C&R FFL is one of the options for a buyer to prove residency according to 11 CCR 4045(d).
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Old 10-10-2019, 9:49 PM
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https://regulations.atf.gov/478-50/2019-06264#478-50
See subsection (b) of the federal regulations.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milsurp1 View Post
https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...ta=(sc.Default)
A C&R FFL is one of the options for a buyer to prove residency according to 11 CCR 4045(d).
Perhaps but not when they actually tell you they donít live at the 03 address but at an alternative address
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  #6  
Old 10-11-2019, 8:50 AM
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I think they are required to update their 03 address with their current residence address?

Not sure if below also applies to 03s..
Quote:
478.52Change of address.
(a) Licensees may during the term of their current license remove their business or activity to a new location at which they intend regularly to carry on such business or activity by filing an Application for an Amended Federal Firearms License, ATF Form 5300.38, in duplicate, not less than 30 days prior to such removal with the Chief, Federal Firearms Licensing Center. The ATF Form 5300.38 shall be completed in accordance with the instructions on the form. The application must be executed under the penalties of perjury and penalties imposed by 18 U.S.C. 924. The application shall be accompanied by the licensee's original license. The Chief, Federal Firearms Licensing Center Center, may, in writing, require the applicant for an amended license to also file completed ATF Form 7 or ATF Form 7CR, or portions thereof, in the manner required by ß478.44.
(b) Upon receipt of a properly executed application for an amended license, the Chief, Federal Firearms Licensing Center, shall, upon finding through further inquiry or investigation, or otherwise, that the applicant is qualified at the new location, issue the amended license, and return it to the applicant. The license shall be valid for the remainder of the term of the original license. The Chief, Federal Firearms Licensing Center, shall, if the applicant is not qualified, refer the application for amended license to the Director of Industry Operations for denial in accordance with ß 478.71.
(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1140-0040)[T.D. ATF-363, 60 FR 17453, Apr. 6, 1995, as amended by ATF-11F, 73 FR 57241, Oct. 2, 2008]

To change your location, you must file an application for an amended license, ATF Form 5300.38, not less than 30 days prior to the move. You must obtain the amended license before commencing business at the new location. The application for an amended license includes a certification of compliance with the State and local laws and notification of local law enforcement officials.
[27 CFR 478.52]
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  #7  
Old 10-11-2019, 9:09 AM
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I looked at the other thread again, and it sounds like a key question is whether the address on the 03 license is where the collection is stored, or not.
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milsurp1 View Post
I looked at the other thread again, and it sounds like a key question is whether the address on the 03 license is where the collection is stored, or not.
Yes! He is using his current address on DL and lease agreement as ID and proof of residency for the state and an 03 at another address to get the 10 day waiver.

He should amend his 03 to show his current address or move back to where his 03 is located and amend his residency
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  #9  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:10 AM
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Strange situation. One question is where the C&R items are stored. If they are stored at the current residence, not at the C&R listed address, then that could be a big problem.
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  #10  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:13 AM
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More details on the address issue are definitely warranted. What is present at the address on the 03, which the license refers to as a ďsecond address.Ē His second home which he resides in on weekends?
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:14 AM
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I meant to say ďwhat the licensee refers to...Ē
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:16 AM
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resolved

Last edited by checkplease; 10-21-2019 at 7:52 PM..
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:27 AM
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Default Residency issue for an 03. NEED HELP

resolved

Last edited by checkplease; 10-21-2019 at 7:52 PM..
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkplease View Post
Yes itís a second home and although no C&R firearms have been collected, thereís a safe there where they would reside.
But you don't live there?

That is a strange situation.

I checked with the people I know and trust and the answer is No! The address on the C&R doesn't match the information which is required for the DROS, so the waiting period exemption would not apply.

There is no reason why the address on the C&R FFL couldn't be a San Francisco address that I am aware of. It isn't a dealer license and they don't have to approve, just be informed.
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkplease View Post
The 03 was originally acquired to receive ammo but since there are some city ordinances in place in SF and the fact that most online retailers wont ship ammo to SF, a second home outside of SF was used. A SF address was used as the "mailing address" on the 03 which is also on the driver's license and utility bill for residency.
I am not sure that this is something that should be discussed in public due to what you have said since it seems that you are using another address, which you don't actually live at, to get around the laws. One could ask if the other location is actually owned by you, leased/rented by you, but if not, that could be a problem.
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:47 AM
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Default Residency issue for an 03. NEED HELP

resolved

Last edited by checkplease; 10-21-2019 at 7:52 PM..
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  #17  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkplease View Post
The 03 was originally acquired to receive ammo but since there are some city ordinances in place in SF and the fact that most online retailers wont ship ammo to SF, a second home outside of SF was used. A SF address was used as the "mailing address" on the 03 which is also on the driver's license and utility bill for residency.
Well, you shouldnít change your residency to your out of San Francisco address if you donít in fact live there. Youíre kinda playing with fire. If you donít like the City, move out and live in a place that allows ammo shipments. For what you think youíre saving in ammo isnít worth getting in trouble for possible ATF issues.
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkplease View Post
Good point and itíll be removed but I have proof of residence at that address as well (it isnít just a random second address or one belonging to someone else, albeit as I understand, you can only claim residence at one location)
If you don't live there, then you really don't have valid proof of residency there. You can have a utility bill in your name there, but to use that to try to claim residency there when you don't actually live there would be fraudulent and the forms are signed under penalty of perjury.
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
For what you think youíre saving in ammo isnít worth getting in trouble for possible ATF issues.
Or CA DOJ issues, perjury issues, etc.

Having to pay an attorney would negate any ammo savings.
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  #20  
Old 10-11-2019, 12:01 PM
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resolved

Last edited by checkplease; 10-21-2019 at 7:52 PM..
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  #21  
Old 10-11-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
Or CA DOJ issues, perjury issues, etc.

Having to pay an attorney would negate any ammo savings.
Yep, I was just trying to be gentle.

Heís a nice guy. New to the 03 and unfortunately CA laws are driving people to do not so legal things. It will only get worse.

Still gun stores will get bashed for helping the state enforce laws so we donít go to prison and complain about how much we charge!

I am NOT referring to checkplease. His demeanor has been pleasant
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