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  #1  
Old 03-14-2019, 5:17 PM
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Default Thumb Rest Install

I was wondering if I could get some guidance about installing the RHT thumb rest (by CR Speed) I purchased last week. As I'll be installing this thumb rest on a brand new CZ Tac Sport, I don't want to get this wrong.

Couple quick questions, if you don't mind.

1. I'll be using a cordless drill on the frame. Would a #38 Solid Carbide Drill Bit and a 5-40 HSS Tin Coated 2 Flute Spiral Pointed Tap be my best bet? If not, any recommendations?

2. I see that the thumb rest came packaged with 2 sets of screws: metric and standard. Which set should I be using for the install after drill/tap?

3. Any other advice for an amateur garage gunsmith?

Much appreciated!



https://www.shootersconnectionstore....Rest-P217.aspx
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2019, 5:30 PM
eaglemike eaglemike is offline
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Cordless drill with a carbide bit on that frame? I don't think that is going to end well. My advice would be find someone with a milling machine and do it right.Carbide drills like solid setups, and a cordless is the worst possible situation.
I've not drill a TacSport frame, but many of the old Witness frames (different compny, likely different alloy), and they were quite hard. Even at a mid-30's rC I would not do it the way you want, and the frame might be harder than that.

Very minimum would be a good quality cobalt bit in a nice drill press, with good quality cutting oil. If something goes wrong you'd have a chance to save it. Getting a broken piece of carbide in a frame will ruin the next thing you use to try and get it out, unless you use an EDM. That's a whole 'nother effort.

I've been a machinist more than 40 years, and had plenty of learning experiences. No need for you to have one on that nice gun.
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Old 03-14-2019, 5:35 PM
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If you believe that the language used in the OP points to a total lack of knowledge about drilling and general gunsmithing, you'd be correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglemike View Post
Cordless drill with a carbide bit on that frame? I don't think that is going to end well. My advice would be find someone with a milling machine and do it right.Carbide drills like solid setups, and a cordless is the worst possible situation.
I've not drill a TacSport frame, but many of the old Witness frames (different compny, likely different alloy), and they were quite hard. Even at a mid-30's rC I would not do it the way you want, and the frame might be harder than that.

Very minimum would be a good quality cobalt bit in a nice drill press, with good quality cutting oi.

I've been a machinist more than 40 years, and had plenty of learning experiences. No need for you to have one on that nice gun.
Thanks.

1. If a cordless drill is my only option, which drill bits would you recommend (if not carbide)?

2. Any gunsmith recommendations for this job?
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Old 03-14-2019, 5:37 PM
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Kinda want to buy a cheap steel framed gun to practice on...

...but I also don't want to destroy the bits I buy.
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Old 03-14-2019, 6:04 PM
eaglemike eaglemike is offline
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If Randall AR15 Barrels is available, I would suggest him. He works by appointment, and I've never heard a bad word about the quality of his work.

I'll hardness test a TacSport when I get a chance, to see what we are dealing with. Frames are usually not case-hardened, so it'll be good info.

Decent drill bits are usually not cheap. You might be able to come up with something off eBay (I have at times), but you might not have the background knowledge (yet) to know how to choose.

In general order of hardness:
Carbon steel alloy
High-Speed steel alloy
Cobalt steel alloy
Carbide

There's sub-categories, variances in quality and alloy blend, to make them more suitable for different applications.

Someone might be along that has done one before, and will do it for minimal gratuity.
Good luck!
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2019, 6:15 PM
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Take it to Randall if you want a nice job. If you do it yourself pls take before and afters.
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Old 03-14-2019, 6:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglemike View Post
If Randall AR15 Barrels is available, I would suggest him. He works by appointment, and I've never heard a bad word about the quality of his work.

I'll hardness test a TacSport when I get a chance, to see what we are dealing with. Frames are usually not case-hardened, so it'll be good info.

Decent drill bits are usually not cheap. You might be able to come up with something off eBay (I have at times), but you might not have the background knowledge (yet) to know how to choose.

In general order of hardness:
Carbon steel alloy
High-Speed steel alloy
Cobalt steel alloy
Carbide

There's sub-categories, variances in quality and alloy blend, to make them more suitable for different applications.

Someone might be along that has done one before, and will do it for minimal gratuity.
Good luck!
Appreciate it. Will keep researching before any decision is made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DueceMcGurk View Post
Take it to Randall if you want a nice job. If you do it yourself pls take before and afters.
Thanks. Will do.

Feel like I've seen Randall's name on here. Is he on the forum?
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Old 03-14-2019, 6:58 PM
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Use a drill press at a minimum and clamp it down than indicate where and use a counter bit to start the hole than use the right drill bit. Use proper fluid and tapping fluid. Go slow
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Old 03-14-2019, 8:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shafferds View Post
Use a drill press at a minimum and clamp it down than indicate where and use a counter bit to start the hole than use the right drill bit. Use proper fluid and tapping fluid. Go slow
All great advice, but I don't have a drill press. Seems like it might be a better idea to get it taken care of with a professional who has the proper tooling.

Then again, they aren't that expensive.
https://www.amazon.com/WEN-4210T-Dri...2622271&sr=1-4
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Old 03-14-2019, 8:58 PM
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Just take it to someone with the proper tools, experience and know how. It's not a hard job but if not done right you will regret it.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:26 AM
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Randall is on the forum under member: ar15barrels
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2019, 1:31 PM
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Ever see one of those threads where someone had something stuck in their barrel? They try a dowel and it breaks. Then they shove a rod in and that breaks. Then they hit it with a punch and lodge it in there good. Then they do something someone on a forum told them and then FINALLY they cave and take it to a gunsmith.

For the price of even a cheap press, you can have someone do it that knows how to properly use the tool. If you're interested in learning something in the process, ask if you can hang out to watch them do it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WingDings View Post
All great advice, but I don't have a drill press. Seems like it might be a better idea to get it taken care of with a professional who has the proper tooling.

Then again, they aren't that expensive.
https://www.amazon.com/WEN-4210T-Dri...2622271&sr=1-4
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Old 03-15-2019, 2:32 PM
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Let's say the chances of your successfully drilling and tapping a single hole in your frame is 50%...

Then successfully tapping two holes in your frame is 50% x 50% = 25%

And whether they line up well enough for you to screw in the thumb rest is another story... Let's say that's another 50/50 proposition, then your total chances of getting it all right is 50% x 50% x 50% = 12.5%.

Good luck.
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Old 03-15-2019, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingDings View Post
Then again, they aren't that expensive.
https://www.amazon.com/WEN-4210T-Dri...2622271&sr=1-4
With a laser?! Wonder if itís on the roster?!

+1 on letting someone else do it for you, possibly watch and learn for next time.
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Old 03-15-2019, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmykan View Post
Let's say the chances of your successfully drilling and tapping a single hole in your frame is 50%...

Then successfully tapping two holes in your frame is 50% x 50% = 25%

And whether they line up well enough for you to screw in the thumb rest is another story... Let's say that's another 50/50 proposition, then your total chances of getting it all right is 50% x 50% x 50% = 12.5%.

Good luck.
Using that math, I should just drill 8 holes.

12.5 x 8 = 100% chance of working
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Old 03-15-2019, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pklin1297 View Post
Randall is on the forum under member: ar15barrels
PM exchanged with him. Thanks.
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Old 03-15-2019, 6:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maht_g View Post
With a laser?! Wonder if it’s on the roster?!

+1 on letting someone else do it for you, possibly watch and learn for next time.
Working on finding an FFL that will do the transfer of the laser. Turners won't do the transfer unless it has a grip fin on the on/off button.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:30 PM
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Op,

Going to Randall is the right call.
As for which screws to use, I believe he has both metric and standard taps, so it will be up to you to choose. But bring both just in case.

Randall is great. Poet pics when it is all done.
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Old 03-16-2019, 6:09 PM
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Well


Quote:
3. Any other advice for an amateur garage gunsmith?

Yes,.................don't try precision work with hand held cordless drills. That is inviting impending disaster.

At the very least, get a cheapy chinese Harbor Freight bench top drill press.
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Old 03-16-2019, 9:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MosinVirus View Post
Op,

Going to Randall is the right call.
As for which screws to use, I believe he has both metric and standard taps, so it will be up to you to choose. But bring both just in case.

Randall is great. Poet pics when it is all done.
Will do. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Well

Yes,.................don't try precision work with hand held cordless drills. That is inviting impending disaster.

At the very least, get a cheapy chinese Harbor Freight bench top drill press.
I feel like I'm improving every single day with the cordless since the great ACOG disaster of 2016 ("nothing a little puddy can't fix")...but I understand the sentiment. Thanks.

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Old 03-17-2019, 5:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingDings View Post
Will do. Thanks.



I feel like I'm improving every single day with the cordless since the great ACOG disaster of 2016 ("nothing a little puddy can't fix")...but I understand the sentiment. Thanks.

Your work looks fine. Iíd say go for it!
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Old 03-18-2019, 9:30 PM
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WingDings.
It is very easy job with right tool. It will take about 15 minutes or so on milling machine and right clamping fixture. Do not do it with cordless or corded hand drills-you will screw up frame. Call Randal, make appointment and he can do it while you wait. Every penny you will pay to him to do drill/tap-will be really good investment.
Another option will be CifaldiPrecision. He is specializing in 1911s, but this kind of job is piece of cake for him.
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Old 03-22-2019, 3:14 PM
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I'll just leave this here:

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Old 03-22-2019, 6:11 PM
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Couple takeaways:

1. Thank God I didn't attempt that on my own.
2. Digital gauges and the proper machinery / tooling are a man's best friend.
3. Randall does fantastic work.

Bonus: CZ Tactical Sport trigger pins require a punch stronger than a toothpick.
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