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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:01 PM
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Is it possible to get an immediate stay on this once it gets signed?
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  #82  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usmc0844spare View Post
Ummm....

Seems pretty clear cut to me as is.

Not sure where you see the gaps we are all filling with our imagination?
Sent you a PM explaining my view.

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Originally Posted by Usmc0844spare View Post
Anyway, CRPA and NRA got some money from me today.
At the end of the day, and after seeing gun control bills play out many times over the years, I can't overstate the importance of doing this. Aside from voting on a proposition, this is the most direct and effective use of our numbers and resources.
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  #83  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:29 PM
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Will not comply.
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  #84  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:40 PM
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If you think closing public ranges isn't your problem, you are part of the problem.
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  #85  
Old 02-24-2020, 1:27 PM
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curtisfong,

The bill is not limited to public ranges, as I read it and the referenced definition in the Civil Code.

This bill is intended to extend into places where persons are willing to accept the risk to themselves.
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  #86  
Old 02-24-2020, 1:43 PM
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Spread the word. I've been emailing gun channels on YouTube, emailing and writing letters to assembly members and senators, and trying to tell everyone I can in person to look into it and voice opposition. Post your frustration with this garbage here, but do something too!

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  #87  
Old 02-24-2020, 1:50 PM
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I have never found anything written and passed by our legislature in the last thirty years to be straight forward and honest. if you are going to write these people then be sure to point out the industries that use lead and pollute far worse than sport shooting which is contained on ranges. point out the loss of jobs, income, taxes, and everything else associated with the sport of shooting. it may not do any good but the documentation is helpful for future fights when they falsely claim they did not know. The government is a bully and they will be no better than school yard bullies pushing you around until someone gives them a bloody nose and backs them off.
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  #88  
Old 02-24-2020, 1:59 PM
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Big Red,

I did some looking through the scientific literature on this. Research done in California reports that airborne lead dust is mainly from legacy deposition from leaded gasoline, leaded paint and industrial sources. Shooting ranges don't even register.

The risk at a shooting range is to users who know of and willingly submit to the risk. Risks can be minimized by good range operating practices. Lead does not generally migrate off range and where there is a risk, chemical stabilization is effective.
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  #89  
Old 02-24-2020, 2:07 PM
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What it gods name would the state plan to do with the massive lead round cartridge hoards in a million private homes in CA? If the state doesn’t think it’s their problem they’re badly mistaken. A lot of guys who couldn’t sell it or shoot it wouldn’t take the time to drive out of state to sell it - they’d simply dump it in a rural area...the pennies on the dollar wouldn’t be worth their time. This one has a lot of unintended consequences maybe the state hasn’t quite thought through yet. I would imagine the bill would be amended to give a long phase in over many years. Somebody needs to play devils advocate with Mullins and let him know he’ll be causing an environmental disaster with lead dumping
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  #90  
Old 02-24-2020, 3:26 PM
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My Rep already responded, (like one hour turnaround)

Dear Mr. XXXXX,

Thank you for contacting my office regarding your opposition to AB 3071, a bill related to lead ammunition. Engaged citizens like you are the lifeblood of our democracy, and I appreciate your taking the time to reach out with your thoughts.

AB 3071 was introduced by Assemblymember Mullin on February 21, 2020, and would prohibit a sport shooting range or an indoor shooting range from selling or giving away ammunition unless that ammunition is certified as non-lead ammunition by the commission. The bill would also prohibit patrons or employees of a sport shooting range or an indoor shooting range from firing ammunition unless it is non-lead certified and would require a sport shooting range and an indoor shooting range to post a specified sign to that effect.

Like you, I am deeply troubled by our state government's apparent disregard for law-abiding gun owners. You can be sure I will vigilantly defend the right to keep and bear arms, which our Founders enshrined in the Constitution as central to personal freedom and self-government.

The bill has only recently been introduced in the Assembly, where it may be amended or revised. I share your concerns about this legislation, and will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind should it reach me for a vote. If you would like to track the progress of AB 3071, you may do so online at http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/.

Thank you again for contacting my office. Please don't hesitate to keep in touch about this or any other issue of concern to you.

Sincerely,

Kevin Kiley
Assemblyman, 6th District
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  #91  
Old 02-24-2020, 3:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieppe42 View Post
My Rep already responded, (like one hour turnaround)

Dear Mr. XXXXX,

Thank you for contacting my office regarding your opposition to AB 3071, a bill related to lead ammunition. Engaged citizens like you are the lifeblood of our democracy, and I appreciate your taking the time to reach out with your thoughts.

AB 3071 was introduced by Assemblymember Mullin on February 21, 2020, and would prohibit a sport shooting range or an indoor shooting range from selling or giving away ammunition unless that ammunition is certified as non-lead ammunition by the commission. The bill would also prohibit patrons or employees of a sport shooting range or an indoor shooting range from firing ammunition unless it is non-lead certified and would require a sport shooting range and an indoor shooting range to post a specified sign to that effect.

Like you, I am deeply troubled by our state government's apparent disregard for law-abiding gun owners. You can be sure I will vigilantly defend the right to keep and bear arms, which our Founders enshrined in the Constitution as central to personal freedom and self-government.

The bill has only recently been introduced in the Assembly, where it may be amended or revised. I share your concerns about this legislation, and will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind should it reach me for a vote. If you would like to track the progress of AB 3071, you may do so online at http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/.

Thank you again for contacting my office. Please don't hesitate to keep in touch about this or any other issue of concern to you.

Sincerely,

Kevin Kiley
Assemblyman, 6th District
That's good to hear.

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  #92  
Old 02-24-2020, 3:36 PM
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Dieppe42,

Lucky you. I'm stuck with Dem Assemblyman and Senator.
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  #93  
Old 02-24-2020, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Hinnerk View Post
Dieppe42,

Lucky you. I'm stuck with Dem Assemblyman and Senator.
That's part of why I moved to El Dorado County....
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  #94  
Old 02-24-2020, 4:53 PM
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It's about time! I'm getting sick and tired of reading about the thousands of deaths caused by lead poisoning on a daily basis. SARC! If the author of this bill had 1/2 a brain, he'd be a 1/2 wit.
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  #95  
Old 02-24-2020, 5:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Hinnerk View Post
This is like banning smoking at smoking bars and any such venues open to the public or even where persons privately assemble to smoke.

Curiously, some claim that the 2nd amendment didn't envision modern firearms. I'm pretty sure the founders didn't think about non-lead ammo! So now my antique single shot rifles are supposed to just be wall hangers?
Bingo. I have no idea what could be fired out of a black powder firearm, since all use lead balls or projectiles. Patched or sabotted steel balls? Thus they can sweep up all of the "nonfirearm" firearms along with the regular firearms in one fell swoop, leaving only hunting rifles with copper bullets and shotguns with steel shot.
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  #96  
Old 02-24-2020, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iareConfusE View Post
It's the context and the way the statement was framed that makes it sound like "you guys are **** outta luck, but I got my own place so bye!"

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
To you, it may sound that way, but that is not how I interpret what he said.
I figured he was explaining how he intends to exercise his Liberties in the face of a tyrannic state government.

So, now you are aware that things may not actually be how you perceive them.
What will you do with this valuable knowledge?
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Put you link where your opinion is.
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  #97  
Old 02-24-2020, 6:35 PM
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2020 AB 3072 (fictitious) Moron, Lead car batteries are next!

Last edited by squirt; 02-24-2020 at 6:38 PM..
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  #98  
Old 02-24-2020, 6:45 PM
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You don’t need to dump your Ammo. Just shoot it at a non regulated range
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  #99  
Old 02-24-2020, 7:50 PM
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After reading the bill in detail...

Where the f--- are these "studies"? who conducted them and when? Was it conducted by NIH? I do not see anything credible there AT ALL, and this bill has been pure horsesh-t.

Shooting sports/hunting don't even show in the piechart representing major sources of lead poisoning. Are children now eating lead bullets instead of skittles*? Why the f--- are they pursuing fringe cases as opposed to addressing actual major sources of lead poisoning? This is waste of goddamn time, and nothing but petty political bs.


*jokes aside, children do consume imported candies that are contaminated with lead. These candies alone pales "gun range dust" as source of lead poisoning in California.
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  #100  
Old 02-25-2020, 4:25 AM
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Thank you. He seemed to be just looking for a fight and I wasn't interested. I was not trying to disparage anyone in any way, I'm just done having every aspect of my life regulated by a bunch of sanctimonious elites in Sacramento.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EM2 View Post
To you, it may sound that way, but that is not how I interpret what he said.
I figured he was explaining how he intends to exercise his Liberties in the face of a tyrannic state government.

So, now you are aware that things may not actually be how you perceive them.
What will you do with this valuable knowledge?
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  #101  
Old 02-25-2020, 4:31 AM
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Any connection to the Targetmaster's incident in Vallejo? The comment regarding contamination of an adjoining business sounds familiar to this case.
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  #102  
Old 02-25-2020, 4:54 AM
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Originally Posted by rogervzv View Post
It seems to me that this bill would effectively destroy the shooting hobby. Just as the Microstamping rule made it very difficult to buy many guns, this bill will make it difficult (and expensive) to buy or shoot bullets. It would close down our ranges.
that is the intent to shut down all ranges and make it expensive and out of reach for the average person.
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Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda.
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  #103  
Old 02-25-2020, 4:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
You don’t need to dump your Ammo. Just shoot it at a non regulated range
welcome to the prohibition of 2020 where instead of speak easy's for alcohol we will have them for shooting lead ammo.
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Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
contact the governor
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  #104  
Old 02-25-2020, 5:18 AM
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Just another hurdle for the CCW process besides everything else.
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  #105  
Old 02-25-2020, 7:19 AM
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This proposed bill that says shooting firearms will affect peoples health is the epitome of absurd legislation based on a personal vendetta and ideology, as it is this bill comes with no proof or data to prove that shooting causes bad health. Lets just face it, Mullins, hate guns and wants to end the legitimate and lawful use of firearms in the state.
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  #106  
Old 02-25-2020, 8:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 201 View Post
Any connection to the Targetmaster's incident in Vallejo? The comment regarding contamination of an adjoining business sounds familiar to this case.
The Co-Author is the dude that has that area , wieckowski I believe his name is.
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  #107  
Old 02-25-2020, 8:29 AM
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Like I said, it's harrowingly directed attack on 2A, which will be easily overturned by any unbiased judge. It obviously has nothing to do with the goals proclaimed
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  #108  
Old 02-25-2020, 8:39 AM
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This proposed bill needs to be a sticky on every thread on this website. We can't ignore this challenge to our 2A.
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  #109  
Old 02-25-2020, 9:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieppe42 View Post
My Rep already responded, (like one hour turnaround)

Dear Mr. XXXXX,

Thank you for contacting my office regarding your opposition to AB 3071, a bill related to lead ammunition. Engaged citizens like you are the lifeblood of our democracy, and I appreciate your taking the time to reach out with your thoughts.

AB 3071 was introduced by Assemblymember Mullin on February 21, 2020, and would prohibit a sport shooting range or an indoor shooting range from selling or giving away ammunition unless that ammunition is certified as non-lead ammunition by the commission. The bill would also prohibit patrons or employees of a sport shooting range or an indoor shooting range from firing ammunition unless it is non-lead certified and would require a sport shooting range and an indoor shooting range to post a specified sign to that effect.

Like you, I am deeply troubled by our state government's apparent disregard for law-abiding gun owners. You can be sure I will vigilantly defend the right to keep and bear arms, which our Founders enshrined in the Constitution as central to personal freedom and self-government.

The bill has only recently been introduced in the Assembly, where it may be amended or revised. I share your concerns about this legislation, and will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind should it reach me for a vote. If you would like to track the progress of AB 3071, you may do so online at http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/.

Thank you again for contacting my office. Please don't hesitate to keep in touch about this or any other issue of concern to you.

Sincerely,

Kevin Kiley
Assemblyman, 6th District
As a follow on, I received a voicemail from Sen Brian Dahle's office, and his assistant says Brian will oppose, is a lifetime sportsman and he maintains a CCW. He feels these erosions of the 2nd Amendment will do nothing but penalize law abiding citizens, and he remains committed to educating fellow legislators.

Again, glad to live in an area where I have representation.
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  #110  
Old 02-25-2020, 9:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
No matter what we do, no matter how much is taken from us, they will never be satisfied. Those of us in the rural areas will continue to do what we've always done, and our sheriffs aren't going to concern themselves about it. Call it non-compliance or civil disobedience...or drawing a personal line in the sand.
I hear ya. I've long given up on being a "law abiding citizen", and gauge my activities on what is moral towards my fellow citizen. The state will continue to throw down "laws & rules" to regulate every single aspect of a citizen's life, in every manner, to no end. At some point, enough is enough. Done. It is now simply a weighing of risk vs gain. I used to fret over what the overlords would do next, but now I don't care. I continue to fight unjust laws by supporting good organizations, but also continue on my own path.
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  #111  
Old 02-25-2020, 9:56 AM
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Question and an observation -

The 9th Court decided that although microstamping was as a practical matter impossible it didn't invalidate the requirement, so why would we expect a different result when non-lead bullets, although expensive, are readily available?

Prohibiting use of lead bullets on public shooting ranges eliminates an objection to their operation, and the creation of new ranges. Which I'm sure our legislators would object to. Perhaps pointing out that requiring non-lead makes it more likely more ranges can open, continue to operate - Chabot and TargetMasters would still be open were it not for lead, supposedly.

I realize the above is "theory only" and other creative obstacles would be tried.
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  #112  
Old 02-25-2020, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
Question and an observation -

The 9th Court decided that although microstamping was as a practical matter impossible it didn't invalidate the requirement, so why would we expect a different result when non-lead bullets, although expensive, are readily available?

Prohibiting use of lead bullets on public shooting ranges eliminates an objection to their operation, and the creation of new ranges. Which I'm sure our legislators would object to. Perhaps pointing out that requiring non-lead makes it more likely more ranges can open, continue to operate - Chabot and TargetMasters would still be open were it not for lead, supposedly.

I realize the above is "theory only" and other creative obstacles would be tried.
The 9th Circuit has changed dramatically since then...
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  #113  
Old 02-25-2020, 10:27 AM
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This bring into question the exemption of LEO's

(2) “Sport shooting range” or “range” means an area designed and operated for the use of rifles, shotguns, pistols, silhouettes, skeet, trap, black powder, or any other similar sport or law enforcement training purpose.

Will probably be amended later...
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  #114  
Old 02-25-2020, 10:28 AM
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To put this issue into perspective, Mullin represents South San Francisco. South City was home to Jackson Arms range. It was closed by the owner with speculation that it was in need of toxic cleanup.

The word on the street was that a worker in that facility had lead poisoning and had filed a workers comp claim.

State Fund is the CA run WC insurance provider. Tell me this isn’t connected
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  #115  
Old 02-25-2020, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgarbarino View Post
This bring into question the exemption of LEO's

(2) “Sport shooting range” or “range” means an area designed and operated for the use of rifles, shotguns, pistols, silhouettes, skeet, trap, black powder, or any other similar sport or law enforcement training purpose.

Will probably be amended later...
A law enforcement exemption is meaningless if our range facilities close due to a lack of business. Over 70% of our income comes from individual hobbyists and we cannot survive on the LE agencies renting semi-annual or quarterly for their quals.
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  #116  
Old 02-25-2020, 11:21 AM
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Thought Jackson Arms closed so he could cash in , build an office building and rent to a tech company for much more money than a range could make.
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  #117  
Old 02-25-2020, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
Question and an observation -

The 9th Court decided
Thanks to McConnell and Trump, CA9 has changed a lot lately
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  #118  
Old 02-25-2020, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoyfulJoker View Post
Thought Jackson Arms closed so he could cash in , build an office building and rent to a tech company for much more money than a range could make.
Correct! I’m sure the problems led up to that decision
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  #119  
Old 02-25-2020, 4:15 PM
Usmc0844spare Usmc0844spare is offline
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I started a thread on this over on Reddit and the number of people who are saying "well, just buy copper bullets!" as if it's no big deal is truly concerning.
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  #120  
Old 02-25-2020, 5:06 PM
truebrit truebrit is offline
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Anyone know what the IOC rules for Bunker and Skeet say regarding ammo?
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