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FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs.

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  #1  
Old 09-22-2022, 6:25 PM
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pingpong pingpong is offline
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Default FFL03 as the seller

I remember in the good ol’ days, FFL03 holders were able to sell C&R long guns to non-holders without going through an FFL01 for a PPT. Is this still the case, or did this also get cut when they gimped the FFL03 in CA?
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  #2  
Old 09-23-2022, 8:13 AM
19K 19K is offline
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Originally Posted by pingpong View Post
I remember in the good ol’ days, FFL03 holders were able to sell C&R long guns to non-holders without going through an FFL01 for a PPT. Is this still the case, or did this also get cut when they gimped the FFL03 in CA?
Just rifles/long guns. Buyer needs to have a C&R and COE. Handguns need to go through an FFL 01 whether or not they have a C&R and COE.

However, I haven’t done this before but if the buyer has the correct documents (C&R and COE) they can skip the 10 day wait when PPTing a C&R handgun
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Old 09-23-2022, 2:25 PM
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Default FFL03 as the seller

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Originally Posted by 19K View Post
However, I haven’t done this before but if the buyer has the correct documents (C&R and COE) they can skip the 10 day wait when PPTing a C&R handgun
Yup. There is a drop down when a C&R handgun is DROS allowing delivery immediately after submission.

No 4473 is needed and the FFL never logs it into their book. Goes from seller’s to buyer’s books.
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Old 09-25-2022, 1:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pingpong View Post
I remember in the good ol’ days, FFL03 holders were able to sell C&R long guns to non-holders without going through an FFL01 for a PPT. Is this still the case, or did this also get cut when they gimped the FFL03 in CA?
Starting 01-01-2014, if the firearm is a C&R long gun and the buyer has a valid C&R 03-FFL and a valid COE, then the transfer, within CA, is exempt from needing to be be done through a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27966]

If the firearm is a non-C&R long gun, then it must be transferred through a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27545]

If the buyer only has a valid C&R 03-FFL, then it must be transferred through a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27545]



Penal Code 27966
If all of the following requirements are satisfied, Section 27545 shall not apply to the sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm:
(a) The firearm is not a handgun.
(b) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.
(c) The person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.
(d) The person receiving the firearm is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued thereto.
(e) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall forward by prepaid mail, or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this section shall be provided to them by the department.
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Old 09-26-2022, 6:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post

No 4473 is needed and the FFL never logs it into their book. Goes from seller’s to buyer’s books.
Are you sure about that? Do other FFLs do it that way?

I know you are correct about the way to avoid the 10 day wait, but this is the first I've heard no 4473 and no A&D. I suppose the no 4473 make sense since ATF doesn't require one C&R to C&R. So I guess no A&D is an extension of that? Does that only apply when both are C&R, or does it also apply when only the buyer is?
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Old 09-26-2022, 7:12 AM
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For an FFL01 to FFL03 C&R transfer, a 4473 is not required. See bolded text below. I understand that the disposition must be entered in the transferor’s A&D.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Federal Firearms Licensee Quick Reference and Best Practices Guide ATF Publication 5300.15 Revised December 2021.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/federal...ractices-guide

ATF Form 4473

Applicable Laws and Regulations: 18 U.S.C. § 923(g); 27 CFR §§ 478.21, 478.124, 478.134.

You must obtain a completed Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473 (5300.9) (Form 4473); and, if necessary, an ATF Form 4473 Firearms Transaction Record Continuation Sheet (5300.9A), for every transfer of a firearm(s) to a non-licensee. The licensee must ensure each ATF Form 4473 is completed correctly in accordance with the instructions on the form. The correct completion of these forms enhances traceability of firearms. Correctly completing ATF Forms 4473 is one of the most important things you can do to ensure that ATF can trace crime guns. An ATF Form 4473 must be completed when you:

1. Sell or trade a firearm;
2. Return a consignment firearm;
3. Return a pawned firearm;
4. Loan or rent a firearm for use away from your licensed premises; or,
5. Otherwise transfer or dispose of a firearm to a non-licensed person.

Note: You may only transfer a firearm to the person who completed the ATF Form 4473 and NOT to a spouse, relative, or other representative of that person.

Exceptions to the ATF Form 4473 Requirement

You are not required to obtain an ATF Form 4473 for the following sales and other transfers:

1. Transfer of a firearm to another FFL (including collectors when transferring a Curio & Relic firearm);

2. The return of a repaired firearm to the person from whom it was received;

3. The sale of a firearm to a law enforcement agency or to a law enforcement officer for official duties if the transaction meets the requirements of 27 CFR 478.134, discussed in the Sales of Firearms to Law Enforcement Officers section of this guide; or,

4. Transfer of a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom a firearm was received. However, you are required by 27 CFR 478.125 to maintain in your permanent records the disposition of such a replacement firearm.
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