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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 09-03-2015, 9:04 PM
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Default Do NOT buy MFT back up iron sights

So thinking I was getting a deal from a reputable company, I went ahead and purchased a set of BUIS from Mission First Tactical. Well...

Received the sights, inspected their quality after unpacking. They look identical and couldn't tell the difference between the front and rear except that the rear has a screw for windage. That's it.

The plastic blend they chose feels very thin and flimsy. The rear section that pulls out for activating moves from side to side in the open position. Pulling the activating tab is tight yet feels like a few of those tugs and it will snap off on you. One thin screw (not even wide enough to fill the rail section it sits in, just flops around like throwing a hot dog down a hallway), a tiny nut held in place by the plastic body and 2 flimsy flanges is all it has to hold on to the rail. The front side, facing the business end, has exposed the spring that flips it up raising concerns 'if a little dirt gets in there, will it hinder activation?' Already I was regretting my purchase.

Unconfidently I mounted the front sight first with a 'well I bought and opened it already' attitude. I put a little bit of blue loctite on the threads, mounted the sight, inserted the screw, moved the sight front to back to see how much play there was and thought 'oh boy..'. Threading it carefully to the nut held in place by the recess in the plastic body of the sight, it stripped
The recess holding the nut gave way to the slightest torque I gave it and now the nut spins freely as I turn the screw, making it impossible to remove now.
Tried gripping the nut with needle nose pliers but giant fail. I gave up finally. In a moment of anger I gripped the sight and pulled it off the rail further angering me. That's all I had to do to remove it?

Conclusion:
Cheap, flimsy and unreliable. I didn't even mount the rear one - will be returning them. It's a shame they market the BUIS for real weapons, clearly, they are not. I wouldn't pay $1 for them. You get higher quality plastic in 25 cent toy dispensers at your local markets.
If you're thinking of buying a set of these MFT BUIS, stop. Get yourselves some Magpul MBUIS and call it a day.

Product gets: -10 from a rating ranging from 0-10. Good day and better fortune
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Old 09-03-2015, 11:10 PM
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Had to learn it the hard way huh?
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Old 09-03-2015, 11:30 PM
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That's too bad. I guess the old motto is true.

You can have it cheap or high quality. Not both.
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Old 09-03-2015, 11:47 PM
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Yup guys. U really do get what u pay for. Even so called American made BS
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Old 09-05-2015, 7:47 AM
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American made does not mean better, just more expensive.
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2015, 2:19 PM
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Sounds like you got a Gen/Revision 1 set of the sights.

I had a Gen 1 set that had issues like yours. The clamping screw wasn't large enough to fill the rail channel width and bad springs (my rear sight wouldn't flip up completely and didn't provide enough tension to keep the sight in the full up position after recoil).

I contacted MFT and they took my sights back. They got me a new rear sight out in a reasonable amount of time, but it took over six months for them to send me a new front sight.

The Gen/Rev 2 sights look identical to the originals, but have stronger springs for flipping up. They also include a rail channel shim that fills the space between the clamping screw and the rails so it's better supported.

I never had an issue stripping the nut out of the plastic. These screws don't need that much torque on them to keep a .5oz sight clamped. I've ran the lightweight carbine I have them on through three carbine courses over the past year and they haven't shifted with just a small amount of torque and loctite 242.

I'd buy them again for a lightweight build, but not for a duty or rugged rifle.
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Old 09-07-2015, 3:45 PM
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Sounds to me like a horribly inadequate product validation process. I'd personally stay away.
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Old 09-07-2015, 6:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Sounds like you got a Gen/Revision 1 set of the sights.

I had a Gen 1 set that had issues like yours. The clamping screw wasn't large enough to fill the rail channel width and bad springs (my rear sight wouldn't flip up completely and didn't provide enough tension to keep the sight in the full up position after recoil).

I contacted MFT and they took my sights back. They got me a new rear sight out in a reasonable amount of time, but it took over six months for them to send me a new front sight.

The Gen/Rev 2 sights look identical to the originals, but have stronger springs for flipping up. They also include a rail channel shim that fills the space between the clamping screw and the rails so it's better supported.

I never had an issue stripping the nut out of the plastic. These screws don't need that much torque on them to keep a .5oz sight clamped. I've ran the lightweight carbine I have them on through three carbine courses over the past year and they haven't shifted with just a small amount of torque and loctite 242.

I'd buy them again for a lightweight build, but not for a duty or rugged rifle.
The nuts & bolts that come with the PTS versions of magpul mbus are far superior than the MFT's. I've since replaced the hardware that originally came with MFT's and clamp tight. I don't know about you bro but I don't feel this product is trustworthy since I can literally pull it off barehanded from the rail. I'm keeping these on for now til I save my dollars for some good ones, magpuls.
I understand buying a set for a light weight build but not for rugged use? Just seems more worth it for an all purposes sights. Like I said, get yourselves a set of magpuls or whatever other well known brand and call it a day.

Edit note:
I called MFT and asked for Brad or was it Bruce...anyway, told them how inadequate these sights are, as I explained in the OP, and whomever is head of research & developement should be let go. Not trying to be a PITA or rude, but their product went on my go-to tool for home defense and it's important that if MFT is marketing products for real world applications they better back it up and stand behind it. And if your optics fail, which is a higher probability they will, your last resort are your BUIS. Whether you're proficient with irons or not they are the last resort, and if those fail, as I explained, well...
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Last edited by Aldo The Apache; 09-07-2015 at 6:48 PM..
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2015, 6:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billped View Post
Sounds to me like a horribly inadequate product validation process. I'd personally stay away.
I second that
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Old 09-07-2015, 6:59 PM
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Well what happened Op?
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Old 09-07-2015, 7:19 PM
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Originally Posted by REDdawn6 View Post
Well what happened Op?
Nothing. The line got disconnected, tried calling back serveral times and went to voicemail. At this point I said what I had to say and not looking for a set of replacements. I'm done with MFT, sticking with Magpuls. They looked cool and was curious but that's about the nicest thing I can say about their sights.
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Old 09-08-2015, 8:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldo The Apache View Post
The nuts & bolts that come with the PTS versions of magpul mbus are far superior than the MFT's. I've since replaced the hardware that originally came with MFT's and clamp tight. I don't know about you bro but I don't feel this product is trustworthy since I can literally pull it off barehanded from the rail. I'm keeping these on for now til I save my dollars for some good ones, magpuls.
I understand buying a set for a light weight build but not for rugged use? Just seems more worth it for an all purposes sights. Like I said, get yourselves a set of magpuls or whatever other well known brand and call it a day.
Seems like this wasn't the right product for your intended use case. I bought these specifically for a lightweight build (5.5lbs unloaded w/ optic sling QD, and control accessories). Is it as strong as the magpuls? No way. It has however held zero for over 1k rounds. I wouldn't put these on a rugged rifle just like I wouldn't put a JP LMOS BCG in one.

The key message here is: understand what you're buying and its intended role. I wouldn't say that this is really your fault since the marketing material doesn't explicitly say this is geared towards just lightweight, but the product should be evaluated as such.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldo The Apache View Post
Edit note:
I called MFT and asked for Brad or was it Bruce...anyway, told them how inadequate these sights are, as I explained in the OP, and whomever is head of research & developement should be let go. Not trying to be a PITA or rude, but their product went on my go-to tool for home defense and it's important that if MFT is marketing products for real world applications they better back it up and stand behind it. And if your optics fail, which is a higher probability they will, your last resort are your BUIS. Whether you're proficient with irons or not they are the last resort, and if those fail, as I explained, well...
I had the opposite experience as you. CS was always friendly with me, but it's probably because the approach. I don't start dropping the accusations of imcompetence till after giving them a chance to rectify the situation, letting them set what commitments they want to make to me, and then failing on those commitments. Then they have nothing to stand on since they're the ones that made the commitments.
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Old 09-08-2015, 8:30 AM
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FaRKle!, serious question.

If they're meant for a lightweight rifle, as backup sights, but aren't meant to be rugged... then what exactly are they for? They're certainly not anything I would imagine people using in competition, they apparently weren't meant for being carried and knocked around either. They appear to be a backup sight, but what good is a cheap backup sight that may not be usable when you really need it if your optics fail for whatever reason?

Also, I too seriously have to question the competence of a company producing a product, in which the spring tension for it to pop up properly is barely enough to raise the sight and get it into position. Yeah, it's possible that there was a manufacturing issue and the spring might have been a little weaker than normal. But why not just use a strong enough spring so that even if it was out of spec, would still work in the first place? The skinny crossbolt issue is simply a matter of failed design from the get-go.

When a company releases a product that is apparently garbage(and even you acknowledge that they had to fix it, so they're obviously aware of it), hanging up on a customer that is angry because of their product that they know has problems, isn't acceptable.

Last edited by Merc1138; 09-08-2015 at 9:55 AM..
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Old 09-08-2015, 9:53 AM
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The cheapest Ill go for iron sights are magpul mbus. MFT makes good stocks though.
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Old 09-08-2015, 9:56 AM
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Is this the AIR SOFT stuff ?
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Old 09-08-2015, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
FaRKle!, serious question.

If they're meant for a lightweight rifle, as backup sights, but aren't meant to be rugged... then what exactly are they for? They're certainly not anything I would imagine people using in competition, they apparently weren't meant for being carried and knocked around either. They appear to be a backup sight, but what good is a cheap backup sight that may not be usable when you really need it if your optics fail for whatever reason?
I think you need to take a look at what your product requirements and definition of rugged are. To me, rugged is a rifle that you can drop out off the back of a truck/ATV, have it tumble down a grade, and still work perfectly. I don't even consider those popular midwest industries rails to be rugged. Do most people require that level of ruggedness? Nope. Do those rails meet the product requirements for many people? Hell yes they do!

Now, do I trust the MFT BUIS to hold up to competition use where if I knock them against a barricade accidentally they won't just shear off, yes. In fact I knocked them a couple times against a post I was using for improvised supported positions in a carbine class last month. I'm not saying go ahead and deliberately spear your rifle into a support to try and shear it off, but it can handle bumps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Also, I too seriously have to question the competence of a company producing a product, in which the spring tension for it to pop up properly is barely enough to raise the sight and get it into position. Yeah, it's possible that there was a manufacturing issue and the spring might have been a little weaker than normal. But why not just use a strong enough spring so that even if it was out of spec, would still work in the first place? The skinny crossbolt issue is simply a matter of failed design from the get-go.
When you realize how large of a tolerance there can be from bad heat treating, saying "lets just overpower it by x amount" is kind of ridiculous. It's not MFT's fault if their contractor, who agreed to make springs to a certain spec, failed to do so. It is MFT's responsibility to make sure that their customers receive a functional sight, and to rectify the situation if that isn't so. As for the crossbolt, neither you or I have done any controlled failure analysis on it so you can't really say at this point whether it's deficient or not. Even in the OP's experience the bolt never failed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
When your company release a product that is apparently garbage(and even you acknowledge that they had to fix it, so they're obviously aware of it), hanging up on a customer that is angry because of your product that you know has problems, isn't acceptable.
I don't disagree that hanging up (if it was actually so) isn't the right thing to do, and we can high horse talk all we want, but at the end of the day we all know being a dick about something isn't likely to get you bumped up on the priority list.



Now, I'm not disagreeing that OP had a bad experience and should be made whole. But I also don't think that it was very objective either. If you don't want to give value to my experience, that's fine, but you can't debate the fact that my experience with them is much greater than anyone else's here.
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Old 09-08-2015, 10:34 AM
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You didn't answer my question, and haven't clarified whether you're talking about the original sights or the "gen 2" version.

You're right that it's not MFT's fault if the supplier screws up. It is however MFT's fault if they don't bother to verify that the parts the supplier is providing are sufficient. You may not agree, but there is definitely something to be said about over-building a product so it can still be functional, while the flipside is having a barely functional product that doesn't work at all(like the OP described). The OP pulled it off the rail without being able to remove the bolt... that's not "rugged" by any definition I've ever seen used.

I didn't say anything about the bolt failing, did I? I was referring to the OP's complaint of the sloppy fit. As I said, that's a design issue. While the band-aid that they provided you(the shim) should work, that doesn't change the fact that it was poorly designed in the first place.

It's strange that you've had to put words in my mouth while defending this company that took 6 months to send you a replacement product that wasn't a POS.

edit: And it doesn't matter how pissed off the customer is. It's their responsibility to deal with their known POS product. It's not as if I've never purchased something from MFT myself, but I'd have been just as mad as the OP if my stock had problems like their sites.

Last edited by Merc1138; 09-08-2015 at 10:41 AM..
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Old 09-08-2015, 11:24 AM
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Gentlemen, everyone here have valid points and different perspectives. Fact is they didn't work for me and IMO they're not worthy of buying regardless of revisions. They may well be a homerun now but MFT left sour taste in my mouth. I agree that the cheapest I'll go also is Magpul.

Edit note:
Also, just to clarify, I wasn't hung up on, the line was dropped. And the conversation was not a heated one, I raised concerns that they are obviously already aware of and my purpose of the call was to cement the fact that it is a problem not just for me or a few that slipped through the cracks of QC issue, but one that was a problem from the get go - starting with the under spec'd bolt and nut.
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Old 05-21-2020, 7:16 PM
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$5 https://botach.com/mission-first-tac...up-rear-sight/

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Old 05-21-2020, 7:18 PM
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What does the I stand for in BUIS?







I=Plastic???
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Old 05-21-2020, 8:16 PM
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A 5 year necro post
really cheap sights (apparently, I've never used them)
botach

That's like the triple crown right there.
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Old 05-21-2020, 8:29 PM
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flip-Off-Gu...A/193366487184
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Old 05-22-2020, 5:24 AM
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Picture isn't coming through.

Might we inquire as to how much you paid for them?

It's important ESPECIALLY for noobs to hear this, who get BAD advice from people who should know BETTER, about, "pouring money down a drain;" that you DON'T 'pour money down a drain' for quality. Only to replace cheap crap over & over & over again...
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Old 05-22-2020, 1:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
What does the I stand for in BUIS?







I=Plastic???
Maybe it should be.... BUPS!
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Old 05-23-2020, 9:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano3467 View Post
Is this the AIR SOFT stuff ?
That's what I was thinking. https://www.airsoftgi.com/Mission-Fi...tical-MFT-876/

Caveat emptor.
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