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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #81  
Old 09-20-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JWHuey View Post
Who makes the barrel in a Palmetto premium?

FNH
You gun snobs and your fancy schmancy brand names. And “Premium.” Oh my. Would you like a scone with your afternoon tea?

You might be made of money, but Blackthorne makes real rifles for the average workin’ man.

http://blackthorneproducts.com/cart/...roducts_id=283

Complete carbine kit, less lower? $250

And it’s MILSPECK too!

— Michael
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  #82  
Old 09-20-2019, 1:17 PM
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This subject comes up frequently and my standard answer as a Machinist of 40 years and some idea how guns and gun parts are made is to buy a generic rifle like a Ruger AR 5.56 and shoot it about a thousand times and then take it apart and Clean it really well. You will also find out what breaks by then and those apts can be upgraded to the next level. Note: I didn't say to the "ultimate level."

Magpul Mags work pretty well in most everything. they don't cost that much either.

Have a few extra parts on hand in case the Extractor or a spring breaks and buy a nice Otis Cleaning Kit!

The Otis Kit is what the Army is getting nowadays and for $60-70 it has tools to clean every aspect of the gun completely. I just got one for my BRo in Laws Birthday and he's is ecstatic about it!

Stay away from "Magic Lubricants" which are NOT Petroleum Based or Synthetic Based. I got on the Frog Lube Band Wagon a few years ago until my $2000 O/U Shotgun froze up one hot day and I was told after it was freed up to use Vaseline on it from there on out.So that's what we do now as people who know more about than me,,, corrected me.

There is no lubricant that was concocted after Synthetic Oils in the 1960's that has been any significant improvement over anything that has come before. JMB recommended 30 Wt Motor Oil for all of his guns! and that was over 100 years ago. Still works just fine, and the 30 wt Motor Oil we have now is alot better than the spuge from 100 years ago.

My current Wonder Lube is "Amsoil 20-50 Racing Oil." I run it in my Browning A5 Shotgun and two drops on the guide ways and bolt ways are good for a whole day of shooting in a Class. Mossberg 500's run so smoothly after broke in with it, that they are a joy to shoot. my new Ruger PCC 40 carbine loves it as do all my carbines. from AR, SCR SU 16 S2K to Mini 14 .

It works so well it is criminal, and I have changed all my Carbines and Glocks over to it as it stays on the job better than most, it doesn't degrade with heat or burn up and leave black ash, and is easy to apply as it migrates thruout all surfaces that touch. A 1 Qt. bottle will last a lifetime.

A inexpensive gun that is kept clean and well lubed will outlast an expensive gun that is neglected every time. Expensive guns tend to be made tighter as well, and that doesn't mix well with Dirt.

Spending a bunch of money on a Battle Rifle that you will probably never use enough to get your monies worth out of,,, makes no sense to me. It's like having a Mercedes in the garage that you never drive,,, with plastic on the seats to keep them nice.

If you think about it for any length of time,,, it probably won't make much sense to you either. I got nothin' against guys having some nice things. But it is pointless to have a bunch of nice things that you never use,,, IMHO. Do save your boxes!

A Mini 14 or 30 cleaned once a year and lubed with 30 wt Motor oil will outlast the best AR made, and if you run out of ammo they make a damn good club! Much better than any AR for that.

Incidentally,,, Palmetto recently came out with their own version of the AK and it looks like it would be a pretty good gun. Maybe a look at that would be in order.

In any event you need to put at least a thousand rounds thru your new gun to break it in properly and find any deficiencies it might have. Good quality parts are available from dozens of manufacturers, but my first stop would be Brownell's,,, just because if it ain't in their catalog, it probably ain't all that. And every type of part in your gun will have multiple manufacturers and price ranges and you can see what is good and what's krap,,, just by reading the reviews.

Midway USA also has tons of reviews on virtually every part they sell.

Hope this helps you figure this out.

When you get your gun built I'd suggest a trip to Front Sight to learn how to actually use it. Spending your money on training will be of more use to you than spending $3K on a gun you don't know how to use.

Randy
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 09-20-2019 at 1:31 PM..
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  #83  
Old 09-20-2019, 2:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
This subject comes up frequently and my standard answer as a Machinist of 40 years and some idea how guns and gun parts are made is to buy a generic rifle like a Ruger AR 5.56 and shoot it about a thousand times and then take it apart and Clean it really well. You will also find out what breaks by then and those apts can be upgraded to the next level. Note: I didn't say to the "ultimate level."

Magpul Mags work pretty well in most everything. they don't cost that much either.

Have a few extra parts on hand in case the Extractor or a spring breaks and buy a nice Otis Cleaning Kit!

The Otis Kit is what the Army is getting nowadays and for $60-70 it has tools to clean every aspect of the gun completely. I just got one for my BRo in Laws Birthday and he's is ecstatic about it!

Stay away from "Magic Lubricants" which are NOT Petroleum Based or Synthetic Based. I got on the Frog Lube Band Wagon a few years ago until my $2000 O/U Shotgun froze up one hot day and I was told after it was freed up to use Vaseline on it from there on out.So that's what we do now as people who know more about than me,,, corrected me.

There is no lubricant that was concocted after Synthetic Oils in the 1960's that has been any significant improvement over anything that has come before. JMB recommended 30 Wt Motor Oil for all of his guns! and that was over 100 years ago. Still works just fine, and the 30 wt Motor Oil we have now is alot better than the spuge from 100 years ago.

My current Wonder Lube is "Amsoil 20-50 Racing Oil." I run it in my Browning A5 Shotgun and two drops on the guide ways and bolt ways are good for a whole day of shooting in a Class. Mossberg 500's run so smoothly after broke in with it, that they are a joy to shoot. my new Ruger PCC 40 carbine loves it as do all my carbines. from AR, SCR SU 16 S2K to Mini 14 .

It works so well it is criminal, and I have changed all my Carbines and Glocks over to it as it stays on the job better than most, it doesn't degrade with heat or burn up and leave black ash, and is easy to apply as it migrates thruout all surfaces that touch. A 1 Qt. bottle will last a lifetime.

A inexpensive gun that is kept clean and well lubed will outlast an expensive gun that is neglected every time. Expensive guns tend to be made tighter as well, and that doesn't mix well with Dirt.

Spending a bunch of money on a Battle Rifle that you will probably never use enough to get your monies worth out of,,, makes no sense to me. It's like having a Mercedes in the garage that you never drive,,, with plastic on the seats to keep them nice.

If you think about it for any length of time,,, it probably won't make much sense to you either. I got nothin' against guys having some nice things. But it is pointless to have a bunch of nice things that you never use,,, IMHO. Do save your boxes!

A Mini 14 or 30 cleaned once a year and lubed with 30 wt Motor oil will outlast the best AR made, and if you run out of ammo they make a damn good club! Much better than any AR for that.

Incidentally,,, Palmetto recently came out with their own version of the AK and it looks like it would be a pretty good gun. Maybe a look at that would be in order.

In any event you need to put at least a thousand rounds thru your new gun to break it in properly and find any deficiencies it might have. Good quality parts are available from dozens of manufacturers, but my first stop would be Brownell's,,, just because if it ain't in their catalog, it probably ain't all that. And every type of part in your gun will have multiple manufacturers and price ranges and you can see what is good and what's krap,,, just by reading the reviews.

Midway USA also has tons of reviews on virtually every part they sell.

Hope this helps you figure this out.

When you get your gun built I'd suggest a trip to Front Sight to learn how to actually use it. Spending your money on training will be of more use to you than spending $3K on a gun you don't know how to use.

Randy
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  #84  
Old 09-20-2019, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
You gun snobs and your fancy schmancy brand names. And “Premium.” Oh my. Would you like a scone with your afternoon tea?
I hit up the old Bushmaster crew, Windham... BCM, LMT. I just don't think the upper receiver and lower receivers are any better. Minimal other crap makes a difference since all my stuff has compliance crap and what I consider great triggers and good BCG's. Mostly I have LANTAC BCG's and trigger shoes, CMC, Geissele, etc... I guess the most important cheapo parts I have on some rifles are PSA barrels, which seem fine to me even on the $159 specials (barreled upper minus bcg/CH).

PSA just has screaming deals and you have to really turn up your nose about price to ignore them. I was being sarcastic in my post about a NO PSA rifle, but I'd still do it. I want a BCM upper.
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  #85  
Old 09-20-2019, 3:37 PM
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A BCM lightweight 16" upper complete with BCG is about $840 shipped. Is there a better place to grab one than direct from BCM?
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  #86  
Old 09-20-2019, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
I hit up the old Bushmaster crew, Windham... BCM, LMT. I just don't think the upper receiver and lower receivers are any better. Minimal other crap makes a difference since all my stuff has compliance crap and what I consider great triggers and good BCG's. Mostly I have LANTAC BCG's and trigger shoes, CMC, Geissele, etc... I guess the most important cheapo parts I have on some rifles are PSA barrels, which seem fine to me even on the $159 specials (barreled upper minus bcg/CH).

PSA just has screaming deals and you have to really turn up your nose about price to ignore them. I was being sarcastic in my post about a NO PSA rifle, but I'd still do it. I want a BCM upper.
The nice thing about the AR marketplace is that there is a seat for every ***. Without question, the demand for cheap guns has made it such that folks that just want an AR to play around with don't have to pay much money to get something that works for them. A $500 AR is a pretty crazy deal when one looks at the costs of other firearms.

That all said, for a "serious rifle", I don't feel that low cost is a big factor. A grand will buy a decent "name" rifle or a frankengun with "name" parts, and that doesn't strike me as a bad deal. Others may disagree.

It's all quite nebulous for the consumer, really. There is no data on how Brand X compares to Brand Y, since that would require the purchase of a statistically meaningful sample size of rifles from each, along with a testing methodology and a significant quantity of ammunition.

You really don't know the quality of the parts sourced and made in house for any given rifle.

You don't know the assembly process used in building the rifle. ( Except for externally obvious things, like choosing to/not staking castle nuts. )

You don't know the actual reliability and durability of any given rifle, and how that manifests between brands.

For most people, it doesn't matter. Most ARs probably never see 1000 rounds.

So, step right up, and make an educated guess. Figure out what is important to you, and decide accordingly.

You pay your money, and you take your chances!

-- Michael
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  #87  
Old 09-20-2019, 4:08 PM
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Just adding a pointer to this old thread so that we get another couple hundred posts in this one.



http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1118901

-- Michael
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  #88  
Old 09-21-2019, 8:14 AM
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Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
Just adding a pointer to this old thread so that we get another couple hundred posts in this one.



http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1118901

-- Michael
It was a cool test, but it really just proves that no one would do that on purpose to a kak, dd or lmt.
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  #89  
Old 09-21-2019, 8:38 AM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
A BCM lightweight 16" upper complete with BCG is about $840 shipped. Is there a better place to grab one than direct from BCM?
Yes, buy mine with 500 rounds shot complete with a linear comp and UTG superslim freefloat added for $300. PM me.
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  #90  
Old 09-21-2019, 4:19 PM
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OP should just get an Anderson lower and slap a PSA upper on it cuz it’s “just as good” as a Colt.
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  #91  
Old 09-21-2019, 5:52 PM
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Originally Posted by smle-man View Post
Buy a name brand. It will work just fine.
I did that, a very well known high end brand(not gonna mention the name) and it was well lubed. The bolt came with a solid ejection pin, where I can somewhat easily move it with a small screw driver, told the manufacturer of the possible issue even before shooting the 1st round, they said "don't worry about it", it's normal and not going anywhere. OK, well, went to the range to shoot it for the first time, that pin snapped in half after exactly 14 rounds, luckily I had an extra complete bolt from a different manufacturer stored in the grip to replace and keep going, so not to end the range day early. Sent the complete bolt back with the broken pin to the manufacturer, never gotten an explanation on what happened to the pin, but I requested them to fix it with a roll pin instead, since then, after many rounds, never had an issue.
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  #92  
Old 09-22-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by HooYah View Post
OP should just get an Anderson lower and slap a PSA upper on it cuz it’s “just as good” as a Colt.
Well, you can't even buy colts anymore so....
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  #93  
Old 09-22-2019, 12:30 PM
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Colts were losing their mystique in the 90's when some started buying the old Bushmaster instead, even though the price was the same. The fact that Colt held on to that somewhat even today is pretty impressive. People love those Colts.
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  #94  
Old 09-22-2019, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Colts were losing their mystique in the 90's when some started buying the old Bushmaster instead, even though the price was the same. The fact that Colt held on to that somewhat even today is pretty impressive. People love those Colts.
Even the owner of BCM, who in a “BCM vs Colt” thread on M4C, wrote:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...004#post528004

First off, Colt is an outstanding product. It is the gold standard in the industry, and I am a big Colt fan.
To be mentioned as a comparison to Colt is a big honor.

(Snip)

We actually do more of the final machining, assembly, and QC than most AR15 companies, but we do not take forging/stock to a final product.

Arguing that one gun is better because more parts are made under their roof/s is silly. Quality product issues are much more complex than that. I will not name names but there is a large AR company that makes about as much stuff in house as Colt, and their rep for quality is on the other side of the spectrum.
The quality you find in a Colt product is not because of the location of the CNC machine. If the machine making parts sits on Colt’s shop floor or it sits across the street at another tool shop - it will not determine if the parts will be good or not. Colt’s product is the quality it is because of the specifications they set and the standard the parts must meet. Because the part is built to the RI print. If you want to argue one manufacture is better than another then that is the point to be made.



Eh, what does he know about building an AR, anyways?



— Michael
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  #95  
Old 09-22-2019, 4:12 PM
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Prices on gunbroker are already starting to go retard for Colt rifles. Just checked.




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