Received new CA compliant AR - mag drops freely

[Paul in SoCal]

I posted previously on another thread last Sat that I was provided an AR with a no-problem magazine drop; just press and drop, as with the rest of the world.

I felt I owe an explanation for what I found out about my free-dropping new AR.

Let me know what you think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILVyRyx-jog

[9M62]

I would consider that magazine fixing device to be defective or have broken in some manner or another.

Separate the upper and lower, buy another method of locking device and put it on the gun. It is illegally configured as it sits now, so remedy the problem. Do not, under any circumstance (unless you want to be a felon), keep it in the configuration it currently sits.

[ajb78]

I'm pretty sure that is NOT how that is supposed to work though. Perhaps the pin is sticking, try a little oil on it maybe? It may just not fit that lower properly or need to be tightened even more and have the threaded portion of the mag catch trimmed so that it doesn't protrude from the release button, or a stronger mag catch spring might correct the issue. Whole lot of maybes there though.

Definitely try contacting the manufacturer, and as 9M62 said, keep the upper and lower separated until you either replace the mag lock or have it fixed. And delete that video.

[SkyHawk]

Your last thread was probably deleted to keep you out of jail, like this one will be.

There was no reason to make that video with the upper in place. That was a huge mistake. Everything you needed to demonstrate could have been done with just the lower.

And that is without a doubt the cheapest, ugliest looking lower and upper I have ever seen. I didn't know HiPoint was making ARs now?? It is no wonder it doesn't work. Have you fired it yet? There are probably more discoveries to be made as you go along with that contraption.

Take the advice you have already been given: separate the upper and lower and do not assemble them together until you fix the mag in place properly.

[ajb78]

His original postings are on page 4 of this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...6#post20976676

[Paul in SoCal]

Wow, why all the antagonism?

Its not about me.

I've already installed the SAFE Mag and Quick Pins from Cross Armory.

Its about making sure that all users of the FC Hook perform a depressed-button, twist and pull test to see if they are in as much compliance as they think they are.

Its about the maker of FC Hook being accountable for a product which doesn't really work (it won't pass the twist/pull test, and it can't, due to its design).

If you are speaking from ignorance because you are not familiar with this device, why not wait for others to report back if they have the same problem as me?

It won't be just me, because the design flaw is in its operation to provide just enough slop to secure the mag until being pried sideways from above."
If you have one, tell me if that's not true. Tell me if the mags pop out if you depress the button and twist the mag while pulling down.

Let's hear from someone who has one, yes? Is it possible for those of you who don't have an FC Hook to refrain until we do hear from current users?

At least one person has experienced this problem. (me). If no other FC Hook users report a similar problem, shall we assume no one else now or in the future will also have this problem. Do I present myself as a nut living in an alternate reality? Still, will it be a waste of time to disseminate information on the need to test it?
I did not install the device, it was installed in a defective state by the gunshop. I only fixed it by freeing the detent pin to function as designed. As advertised, the mag will not drop by depressing the button, even if pulled straight down.
This twist-and-pull business might be a totally new thing. Don't be upset at me for being the first to share that. I remember round earthers being burned at the stake (was it Copernicus? it was some famous astronomer).

Can we stay focused on the product?

[ajb78]

Not sure who you feel is antagonizing you

Your video would be better served had you not shown it with the upper attached as SkyHawk posted. And as 9M62 stated it is illegally configured in the video.

[Paul in SoCal]

Wow, why all the antagonism?

Its not about me.

I've already installed the SAFE Mag and Quick Pins from Cross Armory.

Its about making sure that all users of the FC Hook perform a twist and pull test to see if they are in as much compliance as they think they are.

Its about the make of FC Hook being accountable for a product which doesn't really work (it won't pass the twist/pull test, and it can't due to its design).

If you are speaking from ignorance because you are not familiar with this device, why not wait for others to report back if they have the same problem as me?

It won't be just me, because the design flaw is in its operation to provide just enough slop to secure the mag until pried sideways from above."
If you have one, tell me if that's not true. Tell me if the mags pop out if you depress the button and twist the mag while pulling down.

Let's hear from someone who has one, yes?

At least one person has experienced this problem. (me). If no FC Hook users report a similar problem then shall we assume no one else now or in the future will also have this problem. Will it be a waste of time to disseminate information on the need to test it? I didn't not install the device, it was installed in a defective state. I only fixed it by allowing the detent pin to function as designed. The mag will not drop by depressing the button, even if pulled straight down.
This twist-and-pull business might be a totally new thing. Don't be upset at me for being the first to share that. I remember round earthers being burned at the stake (was it Copernicus? it was some famous astronomer).

[Paul in SoCal]

Originally Posted by SkyHawk

Your last thread was probably deleted to keep you out of jail, like this one will be.

There was no reason to make that video with the upper in place. That was a huge mistake. Everything you needed to demonstrate could have been done with just the lower.

And that is without a doubt the cheapest, ugliest looking lower and upper I have ever seen. I didn't know HiPoint was making ARs now?? It is no wonder it doesn't work. Have you fired it yet? There are probably more discoveries to be made as you go along with that contraption.

Take the advice you have already been given: separate the upper and lower and do not assemble them together until you fix the mag in place properly.

No I did that.

No, firing the gun will not change the flawed design of the mag catch. Let's see what others who have this device will say. So far, there's a lot of indignity, but no one speaking from knowledge or experience with the product.


I might actually try to make an appointment with the patent holder / designer and ask him to install a new one on my rifle and let me twist and pull the mag before his eyes. If I'm wrong, I'll withdraw my both my video and my concern, and apologize to the manufacturer for causing a ruckus.

[ugimports]

I just tested on an M&P15 I received converted from out of state and a PMag Gen2 10/30 mag. I was unable to replicate the issue. Could be mag brand specific that causes it?

[Paul in SoCal]

Originally Posted by ugimports

I just tested on an M&P15 I received converted from out of state and a PMag Gen2 10/30 mag. I was unable to replicate the issue. Could be mag brand specific that causes it?

When you did the twist and pull, did you press the button as you are doing it? Mine will not release with just twist and pull, but if I hold the button first, then it will release with minor twist-pulling.

Could you use calipers and report width and length of your mag well opening?

I have a PMag2, Hexmag, Lancer, Palmetto, and will test a usgi from Brownell's tomorrow.

It just dawned on me that it could be lower-receiver-brand specific. Mine is CMMG Anvil. Will like to compare specs. If my mag well is too wide, it'll be easy enough to shim it with stainless sheet metal, I think. Thanks.


Whether mag-specific, or lower-receiver specific, there needs to be a list of incompatible applications, so people who have problems don't get yelled at.

[ugimports]

I don't have calipers here. I did press the button hard and wiggle vigorously. I'll try to remember to bring in my caliper tomorrow.

[Paul in SoCal]

Had a 180deg change of heart.

Finally was able to function fire 40 rounds in quick succession and I felt like a kid again. Dang thing really does kick - I'll need a forward grip to keep the guard from cutting up my hand, and to save my shoulder. SAFE Mag and Quick Pins function flawlessly, except . .. . I've decided I'm not going to be closing the bolt just to charge it . . . repeatedly . . . manually . . . every time I reload. Man, that's just plain stupid on this type of gun.

The range I went to is far from home so I had a chance to visit 2 new-to-me gunstores to ask about the FC Hook. They don't know any local shops which are still installing those - its like a relic compared to the newer offerings. One said customers kept coming back for change outs, another said it works acceptably in 10 rounders but problems with pre-ban full length mags. Said the longer magazines provide enough grip to actually twist or angle the mag away from the catch when the button was pressed. Bingo ! ! I use 10rd 458 mags which are the same as 30rd 223's, except with a center groove follower (which negates their use with 223's,) and are stamped/imprinted 458.

I was right, for my situation (and everyone else using full lengths). With full lengths you can easily detach them. I reviewed the sales and install videos from Torque Precision again. He doesn't press the button and simultaneously pull on the mag. He presses and releases the button (no mag drop), then he pulls on the mag without depressing the button (and says it complies as a non-removable). He also specifically said to install a 10 round magazine as he inserted the magazine. I thought to send him a link to my now-private youtube and ask him to consider including information in the video and on product detail, wording that the replacement catch may not function properly on some 30 round mags. But nah. I want him to sell sell sell.

I'm in love with my "dual characteristic" FC Hook ! !

I'd like to promote this product and get everyone to have it installed as an economical solution to state tyranny. I want every beat officer, ATF agent and local/state DA to see and hear about this brand so they'll automatically understand that if the mag catch has the tiny white letters, FC on it, its legit. Its done and done and let the nervous gun owner go on their way (me).

The FC Hook Magazine Lock works great - everyone should buy one.

You can get them . . . (only) direct - no middle man markups!: only $36
torqueprecision.com/products/fc-hook

** Don't go to your local Turner's, they only have those new fancy expensive Cross Armory stuff that everyone is raging about. Probably just a passing fad.

[joeliberty]

The fc hook is nice because it is an inexpensive option that doesn’t require any modifications to your gun. These devices are nice because they allow you to buy a factory rifle with nothing more than an easily removable screw on part. If it doesn’t work on your gun, or with your mags, you are just out of luck, and missing the point of the device completely. Who cares about how well it works, just so long as it allows the venders to continue to get semi automatic rifles into the hands of people who might have to someday convert their rifles into what they were meant to be. In other words, the fc hook was always meant to be a throw away part, and it is just a tool patriots use to keep other patriots armed. If you are just looking for a hobby where you can enjoy shooting without getting pushback from the state/enemy, and you don’t want to have to worry about tinkering on something just enough to keep you under the radar, maybe you should take up rim fire or paintball. I have an fc hook on each of my rifles because it is all I need to avoid scrutiny, for now.

[baranski]

Originally Posted by Paul in SoCal

Dang thing really does kick -

You are talking about a 5.56/.223 AR right?

[NATEWA]

I have the FC Hook (purchased from another calgunner who couldn’t get it to work on a billet lower, I think) and their magpul, 10 round modified mag. After installation, I pulled, twisted and yanked on that thing (yeah, yeah.. that’s what she said) and it wouldn’t come out.

I tried it on my aero M5 lower and it was a no go. Contacted the manufacturer and he offered to refund my money. He said I could make it work if I notched my lower. I’m not doing that and will keep it featureless. Nice guy and responded to my emails promptly.

Seems like it works well on a standard ar 15 lower with their modified 10 round mag. They have instructions on how to modify it if you have your own.

[Paul in SoCal]

Originally Posted by baranski

You are talking about a 5.56/.223 AR right?

No, look for "458" within my post.

[NATEWA]

https://torqueprecision.com/p/aboutfchook

Read this for more info about compatible mags and lowers.

[ARFrog]

It may be time to think outside the box by going back to basics -

Attachment 661701

Replace powder in flash pan with ground Marijuana and light it off...

Think about it:

- state approved product
- now available without an approval note from the DOJ
- not subject to being locked behind dispensery locked counters
- Sacramento and the majority of California voters loves it
- you need be a tool to operate it
- features or featureless, I just don't give a rip

Downsides:

- can't drive if you want to keep your weapon. It is OK though I have a real cool Stingray bicycle with a banana seat
- can't remember why you brought the rifle to the range in the first place
- have to figure out how to compress the vapors to propel the projectile
- ???

...No, I don't support this...

... Just tired of the endless prognostication without definite solutions!!!

... Can you spell SATIRE AND/OR SARCASM???

[JeffSD]

I have FC Hooks installed on my Smith & Wesson M&P 15, and my Colt 6920. I am using pinned 10/20 Magpul magazines on both rifles.

I pushed the magazine release button and twisted and pulled on the magazine as hard as I could and the magazine did not release on either rifle. I then tried it with a Magpul 10 round magazine, and it would not release with either rifle.

One thing I noticed about the FC Hook is if you are going to remove the magazine, it is probably best to completely separate the upper and lower first. The reason is because the detent pin which locks the magazine release button does not always fully engage, and will allow the magazine release to function in a free state manner.

I have to press against the FC Hook with something until I hear the detent snap up into place. Once you hear that snap, that magazine release isn't going to move at all. Then and only then will I reassemble the rifle.

This isnt a problem for me because I almost never remove the magazine. I use BF-10s to load ammo into my rifles, so there is no reason to remove the magazine. They are truly fixed magazine rifles.

Another thing to note is that if you are using a Gen 3 Magpul magazine, you are going to need to sand off the area above the magazine catch opening, or it will prevent the FC Hook detent from deploying.

Here you can see a pic of how I modified my Magpul magazines. Took about 2 minutes with some sandpaper.

[Paul in SoCal]

Originally Posted by joeliberty

The fc hook is nice because it is an inexpensive option that doesn’t require any modifications to your gun. These devices are nice because they allow you to buy a factory rifle with nothing more than an easily removable screw on part. If it doesn’t work on your gun, or with your mags, you are just out of luck, and missing the point of the device completely. Who cares about how well it works, just so long as it allows the venders to continue to get semi automatic rifles into the hands of people who might have to someday convert their rifles into what they were meant to be. In other words, the fc hook was always meant to be a throw away part, and it is just a tool patriots use to keep other patriots armed. If you are just looking for a hobby where you can enjoy shooting without getting pushback from the state/enemy, and you don’t want to have to worry about tinkering on something just enough to keep you under the radar, maybe you should take up rim fire or paintball. I have an fc hook on each of my rifles because it is all I need to avoid scrutiny, for now.

You may have mistaken my enthusiasm for sarcasm. No, except for the very last line, I was honest. I'm glad you like it. It would be better for me if everyone used it. I agree with the gun store that it works on 10 rounders. I wouldn't recommend them for full length magazines - even the manufacturer said to use a 10rd with the FC Hook. Under those circumstances they are good.

The maker, Torque Precision knows people want to reconvert to free-state mode when circumstances require, and has released a new video yesterday emphasizing that it only takes 1 min to swap the Hook back to a standard release, or vice versa; going from compliant to free-state according to need.

When I said I'm in love with my FC Hook, I really mean it. I'll be buying two more in the near future, just in case state law gets me upset again and I have to vote with my wallet. I had already put the FC Hook back on my AR as soon as I got home and had verified what the shops had said that they are not defective, and do work correctly on 10rd mags. They just aren't marketed for the full sized magazines I was using. I had thought there was a fatal and unbeknownst design flaw. I took down my youtube video because I want more people to buy it. Very content to say its more perfect than perfect, because its only shortcoming is unknown and works to my advantage. The fact that not a single person reading this thread has acknowledged the issue makes my personal position even better (exc NateWA-thanks). No cop is going to be twisting and bending my mag trying to get it out of the lower. They won't hear about the need to test the mag lock beyond a quick tug because there is no validation of my claim among this forum. I've been shut down as a driveling idiot, which is good because I don't want anyone to believe what I just demonstrated on video.

I mentioned the "dual characteristics" of the device. My interests in this is perfected when law enforcement acknowledges it as a proper compliance device. Under legal inspection, my AR does have a bonafide and well known compliance device. Under life or death situations, it will function as a standard release, at least for me and the few others who are aware. These would be circumstances whereby I really could care less about CA ammo magazine laws.

At this point of my journey its not to my benefit to keep explaining about it publicly. Going forward its best I keep quiet about it and move myself to other threads. No one believes me anyhow so it shouldn't matter (except Nate above). I consider the topic of this thread concluded and thank everyone for their input.

[Paul in SoCal]

Originally Posted by JeffSD

I have to press against the FC Hook with something until I hear the detent snap up into place. Once you hear that snap, that magazine release isn't going to move at all. Then and only then will I reassemble the rifle.


Another thing to note is that if you are using a Gen 3 Magpul magazine, you are going to need to sand off the area above the magazine catch opening, or it will prevent the FC Hook detent from deploying.

Thank you Jeff.

I'm going to respond off-thread. Please take a look at your PM's.

[colossians323]

Originally Posted by baranski

You are talking about a 5.56/.223 AR right?

think he must be shooting a tromix or beowulf

[Paul in SoCal]

Originally Posted by SkyHawk

And that is without a doubt the cheapest, ugliest looking lower and upper I have ever seen. I didn't know HiPoint was making ARs now?? It is no wonder it doesn't work. Have you fired it yet? There are probably more discoveries to be made as you go along with that contraption.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend with my gun choice. What do you know of my contraption?

I don't know anything about these types of firearm and didn't want to spend too much on my first one.


Kind of an impulse buy when I heard a bunch of new assault weapon laws were about to go hot. I was only able to spend an hour or so researching on my phone in the parking lot in front of the gunstore. I just looked up what is the most powerful AR15 cartridge, then looked up the strongest offering in that caliber. An oversized "308" bolt, "chopped down AR10 top half" sounded good, whatever that means.

I watched this video and asked the store if they can get it with a good trigger and a discount. They said they were an authorized dealer, so I let them guide me.

I didn't know what a Geissele SSA was, but that's all they had for an upgraded trigger so I went with it. I imagine I can always get something better later. Didn't have any trouble with the trigger yesterday, but I only put 40 rounds through it.

It seems to work okay for now, for a starter gun. I've learned my lesson and will take your advice and learn to make a better purchase next time around.

Thanks for all of your help!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsjs5qBu0xQ