Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Curio & Relic/Black Powder
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-04-2022, 9:57 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default I Want To Buy a Colt 1851 Navy - questions

i've been looking at buying a Navy for 6 years. I"ve done a little research on them....
Seems that appearance, matching serial #s, patina, the amount of the original finish, and the visibility of the Naval scene on the cylinder are key.

I'd like to ultimately get 2 of them. a shooter and a safe queen.
I guess you could say that "funcionality" is my main concern.
I"ve looked on lots of auction sites and it's hard to get a read if they are just way over charging, under charging. seems that at the very least, an auction house can conservativly give a value range on a gun and then give a somewhat accurate decision, seeing as the gun is in thier possesion and has been (hopefully) examined by a professional.

i'm an M1-head, so i'm trying to approach this from the same evaluation criteria. is there a guage similar to an an M1 TE/MW guage? how do you measure the wear? can rifling be re-etched if it is lacking?
i've seen in movies (good/bad/ugly) like the sceen where Tuco goes into a store and takes apart a number of colts and checks the cylinder by listening to the click as he rotates it. i guess that enables you to find out if one of the chambers is bad. just a guess, but i've seen read about it in a few articles. What is this test called? (if anything)?
what other "functional" items do i need to evaluate?

here is a link to a gunbroker colt. seems decent (not amazing) matching serials, flat back trigger housing, a partially visible naval scene on the cylinder. some patina (i know that can be faked)

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/931530856

perhaps if you look at this listing you can explain things to look for and questions to ask that would help me in finding a good shooter. I'm thinking of leaving it black-powder, but there is always the chance i might throw in an uberti conversion cylinder in it. not sure. not so important in the purchase i think.

thanks in advance!!!
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-05-2022, 1:14 AM
Darto's Avatar
Darto Darto is offline
Norville Iron Bank
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,734
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

I only know where I would by it from. From this site. It's mainly like minded folks trading around. The prices are cheaper. The selection is meager and it takes a lot of patience to find what you want.

Recently a great shooter 1858 Remmington went for $1300.
A real good Ruger Old Army for $750.
Both tempted me.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/t...l-army.145861/

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/t...to-750.140279/

I bought a gun there a month ago. And a few over the years. And sold some too. It's all traditional black powder and no modern inlines allowed to even be mentioned in the forum.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-05-2022, 4:02 AM
Elgatodeacero Elgatodeacero is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 941
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Get a Uberti reproduction 1851 and send it to someone for proper tuning if you want a shooter.

Using a smokeless conversion cylinder in an original Colt 1851 is a bad idea and very unsafe.

If you want to look at lots of very nice original 1851’s, then search the catalog at Rock Island Auction (remember that auction fees will raise the Price substantially).
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-05-2022, 4:30 PM
Darto's Avatar
Darto Darto is offline
Norville Iron Bank
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,734
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

NeW today.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-05-2022, 4:33 PM
California_Deplorable's Avatar
California_Deplorable California_Deplorable is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: everywhere
Posts: 5,238
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

You want a "shooter" grade original Colt 1851? Why not just get a repro to shoot?
__________________
CRPA and NRA member.

DONT FEED TROLLS! Remember, some random fool's opinion of what kind of person you are, means absolutely nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I am absolutely staggered that there are actually people on this forum stupid enough to believe Putin is anything other than a murderous pile of dogs**t filth and to actually buy in to the whole idiotic 'nazis in Ukraine' crap.

Just, wow...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-05-2022, 5:29 PM
AR22 AR22 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Columbus NE
Posts: 1,748
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I am not going to say anything one way or the other on shooting it..That is your decision..I will say I think that one is overpriced in my opinion..Good Luck whatever you decide on..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-05-2022, 7:26 PM
NapalmCheese's Avatar
NapalmCheese NapalmCheese is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Jose
Posts: 5,468
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by California_Deplorable View Post
You want a "shooter" grade original Colt 1851? Why not just get a repro to shoot?
Because sometimes it's fun to see what they were really like and why people liked them so much rather than what some Italian company thinks they were like based on a few examples and figuring out how to mass produce them.

I want an original pocket pistol. As they were the most sold of the cap and ball colts there are LOTS of fine examples out there. I won't have to keep mine museum quality and can go ahead and shoot it.
__________________
Calguns.net, where everyone responding to your post is a Navy Force Delta Recon 6 Sniperator.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-05-2022, 7:41 PM
Elgatodeacero Elgatodeacero is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 941
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

The Colt 1849 .31 caliber is the pocket pistol that sold 300K plus copies.

They are a lot less expensive than an 1851 Navy.
(.36 cal).
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-05-2022, 8:14 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR22 View Post
I am not going to say anything one way or the other on shooting it..That is your decision..I will say I think that one is overpriced in my opinion..Good Luck whatever you decide on..

but this is still helpful. if you feel that it's overpriced and that's good info
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-05-2022, 8:17 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
Because sometimes it's fun to see what they were really like and why people liked them so much rather than what some Italian company thinks they were like based on a few examples and figuring out how to mass produce them.

I want an original pocket pistol. As they were the most sold of the cap and ball colts there are LOTS of fine examples out there. I won't have to keep mine museum quality and can go ahead and shoot it.
yes, i prefer to have the real thing. not a repo. it would be like buying a reproduction M1.......shamefull.

i think i saw hickok45 shoot a converted one along with a non-converted one.

but again. how do you measure the wear of the barrel? is there a tool? is there a known spec out there? are their lots of forgeries out there?
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-05-2022, 8:19 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgatodeacero View Post
Get a Uberti reproduction 1851 and send it to someone for proper tuning if you want a shooter.

Using a smokeless conversion cylinder in an original Colt 1851 is a bad idea and very unsafe.

If you want to look at lots of very nice original 1851ís, then search the catalog at Rock Island Auction (remember that auction fees will raise the Price substantially).
didn't they make a .38 conversion kit in the 1870's or 80's?
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-05-2022, 9:19 PM
pitfighter's Avatar
pitfighter pitfighter is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,939
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Have you researched 1850's metallurgy, the processes they used to harden steel?
It was very rudimentary, basically not much more than wrought iron/ You will not know what repairs, damage, heavy use that old revolver you're shooting went through over the last 140 years.

Keith stated in his 1961 book, Six Guns that when he was young, the single most common gunsmith repair was pre-1906 SAA's that had been bulged or split with smokeless ammo.

You're risking your investment, eyes, and fingers on what is a notch above wrought iron and a bomb inside it.

I have owned a lot of original Colts and black powder arms including an 1886 SAA, I shot most of them with powder, no projectile (no pressure) as I was curious to see them flame and smoke.

As mentioned above if you want to shoot antiques with even a low pressure load you're taking a risk, use a nice Italian replica, fingers don't grow back.

Just my 2 cents.

* Some "salty" old originals I shot with powder, but no ball, lol - the one on the right is a .38 conversion I popped some black powder blank in it and it ran fine, no need to put a real bullet in it - the replicas are just as much fun to shoot without worrying about the barrel going through the target.
__________________
Pitfighter.
Phoenix, AZ.

Last edited by pitfighter; 05-05-2022 at 9:24 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-05-2022, 9:27 PM
NapalmCheese's Avatar
NapalmCheese NapalmCheese is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Jose
Posts: 5,468
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluorideInMyWater View Post
yes, i prefer to have the real thing. not a repo. it would be like buying a reproduction M1.......shamefull.

i think i saw hickok45 shoot a converted one along with a non-converted one.

but again. how do you measure the wear of the barrel? is there a tool? is there a known spec out there? are their lots of forgeries out there?
Based on what Elmer Keith wrote about the old Colt's... You don't really measure it so much since the bore diameters were all over the map. I don't know if there's a way to measure the depth of the rifling, maybe cerocast the bore?

Could also check the engagement of the wedge (shouldn't be super deep), and the cylinder gap. See if the internals (the hand specifically) is in good shape. Make sure the nipples are stripped.
__________________
Calguns.net, where everyone responding to your post is a Navy Force Delta Recon 6 Sniperator.

Last edited by NapalmCheese; 05-05-2022 at 9:35 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-05-2022, 9:30 PM
NapalmCheese's Avatar
NapalmCheese NapalmCheese is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Jose
Posts: 5,468
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgatodeacero View Post
The Colt 1849 .31 caliber is the pocket pistol that sold 300K plus copies.

They are a lot less expensive than an 1851 Navy.
(.36 cal).
Precisely!
__________________
Calguns.net, where everyone responding to your post is a Navy Force Delta Recon 6 Sniperator.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-06-2022, 3:02 AM
highpower's Avatar
highpower highpower is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Savannah, TN
Posts: 4,482
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I understand your desire to find an original 1851 Colt Navy, a consideration that several people that have posted on this thread seem to have lost sight of. Nothing beats having an original. In typical internet fashion you got a slew of replies that are basically non sequiter in relation to the original question so I will take a stab at answering it:

The gun that you posted the link to is a nice honest example of a very early '51 Colt and is priced accordingly. If I saw it in person and was able to give it a close inspection, I would be very tempted to buy it.

But.........

There is no way I would shoot an original 171 year old gun. They are just too valuable to risk damaging them to be worth the experience. For that purpose I would buy one of the reproduction Navies that are on the market. If you want something that would be classified as an actual Colt, look for one of the Colt Blackpowder Series '51 Navies and use that as a shooter. While there are those that would argue that they aren't a "real" Colt, the "F" and "C" series will letter as a Colt from the factory and as an added bonus, they don't have the plethora of Italian proofs stamped on them that the Ubertis and Piettas have.

These are my Colt 1851 Navies. the cased one is a "F" series and the other is a "C" series.


__________________
MLC member.

Dumocraps suck balls.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-06-2022, 4:47 AM
AR22 AR22 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Columbus NE
Posts: 1,748
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Well maybe I will say something about shooting these old ones,LOL..

I do not think I would shoot a cartridge conversion so much in one..But the oldest original I shoot is a 1816 Harpers ferry..Also a Civil War Manhattan .36 Revolver, 1877 Colt and a Civil War era Remington Army, a couple 1800s Marlin Lever guns, and so on..I keep all BP loads light..Well under original loadings..I do not worry one bit about harm to the Firearm or the self in doing so..Do I take em out daily and fire 100 rounds, no..But they would I am sure as they are all in shootable condition, that is the key more than anything,,Safe to fire condition..

No deeply pitted chambers and bores for sure..

Last edited by AR22; 05-06-2022 at 4:49 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-07-2022, 8:40 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by highpower View Post
I understand your desire to find an original 1851 Colt Navy, a consideration that several people that have posted on this thread seem to have lost sight of. Nothing beats having an original. In typical internet fashion you got a slew of replies that are basically non sequiter in relation to the original question so I will take a stab at answering it:

The gun that you posted the link to is a nice honest example of a very early '51 Colt and is priced accordingly. If I saw it in person and was able to give it a close inspection, I would be very tempted to buy it.

But.........

There is no way I would shoot an original 171 year old gun. They are just too valuable to risk damaging them to be worth the experience. For that purpose I would buy one of the reproduction Navies that are on the market. If you want something that would be classified as an actual Colt, look for one of the Colt Blackpowder Series '51 Navies and use that as a shooter. While there are those that would argue that they aren't a "real" Colt, the "F" and "C" series will letter as a Colt from the factory and as an added bonus, they don't have the plethora of Italian proofs stamped on them that the Ubertis and Piettas have.

These are my Colt 1851 Navies. the cased one is a "F" series and the other is a "C" series.


yes, you are on point. honestly, i'm more of a collector than a shooter. i'm fine with not converting it to smokeless powder. for me, it is more of a collector's safe queen (or mounted in a shadowbox on the wall).

i agree with everyone that it could be potentially deadly firing a 150 year old gun. i had just seen someone on YouTube who converted it to smokeless using an Uberti conversion kit......but i'm fine just owning it. i forgot about the potential danger, like not shooting a 1903 under the serial # 8million b/c of catastrophic failures.

that second picture is a gem. i'm sure it's worth an arm/leg/spleen/first-born
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-07-2022, 9:48 PM
Wheellock's Avatar
Wheellock Wheellock is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Victorville area
Posts: 963
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluorideInMyWater View Post
i'm an M1-head, so i'm trying to approach this from the same evaluation criteria. is there a guage similar to an an M1 TE/MW guage? how do you measure the wear? can rifling be re-etched if it is lacking?
i've seen in movies (good/bad/ugly) like the sceen where Tuco goes into a store and takes apart a number of colts and checks the cylinder by listening to the click as he rotates it. i guess that enables you to find out if one of the chambers is bad. just a guess, but i've seen read about it in a few articles. What is this test called? (if anything)?
what other "functional" items do i need to evaluate?
For some of your technical questions, cap and ball don't get TE/MW like an M1. More commonly, they have pitting from rust. If they were used and abused, the cylinder will be loose, have lots of end shake, the barrel wedge will get worn and won't lock up, hand will get worn and won't lock the cylinder, basically, everything gets loose.

I would recommend you watch a few videos on youtube about tuning repro revolvers, that will tell you what a revolver in good condition should do.

My short version would be, overall look at the patina and check serial numbers on parts to see if they match. Pull back the hammer with a very light drag on the cylinder from you other hand and see if each chamber locks up properly. Barrel tight on arbor? Cylinder gap/end shake. Barrel, check muzzle for dings/damage, look at rifling to see how sharp the edges are (Colts were gain twist, as far as I know, no replicas have that). Any shims in the arbor hole? Cylinder should have engraving in line with the condition of the rest of the piece. Check for pitting in the chambers. If you can take the nipples/cones out to make sure they are free, check that. On the frame, check if the arbor is tight in the frame. Check the bottom of the grip to see how many times someone used it as a hammer.....
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-08-2022, 9:35 AM
'ol shooter's Avatar
'ol shooter 'ol shooter is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,323
iTrader: 89 / 100%
Default

For my money I would buy an Uberti repro through Taylor's, they disassemble and tune the guns before sale.

https://taylorsfirearms.com/hand-gun...nufacturer=173
__________________

Bob B.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-08-2022, 7:11 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by highpower View Post
I understand your desire to find an original 1851 Colt Navy, a consideration that several people that have posted on this thread seem to have lost sight of. Nothing beats having an original. In typical internet fashion you got a slew of replies that are basically non sequiter in relation to the original question so I will take a stab at answering it:

The gun that you posted the link to is a nice honest example of a very early '51 Colt and is priced accordingly. If I saw it in person and was able to give it a close inspection, I would be very tempted to buy it.

But.........

There is no way I would shoot an original 171 year old gun. They are just too valuable to risk damaging them to be worth the experience. For that purpose I would buy one of the reproduction Navies that are on the market. If you want something that would be classified as an actual Colt, look for one of the Colt Blackpowder Series '51 Navies and use that as a shooter. While there are those that would argue that they aren't a "real" Colt, the "F" and "C" series will letter as a Colt from the factory and as an added bonus, they don't have the plethora of Italian proofs stamped on them that the Ubertis and Piettas have.

These are my Colt 1851 Navies. the cased one is a "F" series and the other is a "C" series.


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/931530856
i got the owner to take some more pictures of that particular gun.
there are more on the link, but here are 3
1 - the bore
2 - disassembled
3 - the cylinder with a good picture of the engraving.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cylinder.jpg (55.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg disassembled.jpg (50.9 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg barrel.jpg (53.3 KB, 8 views)
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-09-2022, 8:03 AM
Wheellock's Avatar
Wheellock Wheellock is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Victorville area
Posts: 963
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluorideInMyWater View Post
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/931530856
i got the owner to take some more pictures of that particular gun.
there are more on the link, but here are 3
1 - the bore
2 - disassembled
3 - the cylinder with a good picture of the engraving.
I'd take that to the range, it looks pretty good. First year production, squareback, there is a lot going for this one and the price seems in line with what I have seen elsewhere.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-09-2022, 4:44 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheellock View Post
I'd take that to the range, it looks pretty good. First year production, squareback, there is a lot going for this one and the price seems in line with what I have seen elsewhere.
ok, i appreciate your comments! i appreciate good comments as well as bad. saves me from making bad decisions.

would you try to negotiate on this price? one person mentioned to me that they felt it was on the high end.

one-off question. do these appreciate in value well?
i'm an M1-head. i bought a bunch 15 years ago and they have quadrupled in price, but there is high demand and deminishing quantity (from the CMP at least...they have been sold out for 5 years)
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-09-2022, 4:49 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

decision was made for me. it sold for $4300. there were not bids until 1/2 hour before the listing ended. i guess it was a good one. i would not have been able to spend more than $3k, so oh well.
thanks for all your input. i'll have to scout for another one.
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)

Last edited by FluorideInMyWater; 05-09-2022 at 6:15 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-13-2022, 6:07 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

so i found another one on an auction site.
gun is all original with matching serials EXCEPT for the barrel. the barrel is within the same period i believe. gun is 2-million and the barrel is 2.1 million. it's a civilian model i was told and that only 1000 were made that year (1867).

my only concern is the barrel. it has dings and pits on the part with the colt navy address but the rest looks ok. seller wants $1650, gun seems to have a lot going for it except for the non-matching barrel. i'm not sure how much another barrel would be or if there is any way to track down a barrel by serial # (that would be cool). if it weren't for the dings it be all-in, so i need some feed back.
attached are a few pics for your consideration.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg barrel 2.jpg (91.4 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg barrel1.jpg (59.2 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg colt address.jpg (53.0 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg colt.jpg (91.4 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg cylinderb.jpg (77.2 KB, 7 views)
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)

Last edited by FluorideInMyWater; 05-13-2022 at 6:19 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-13-2022, 6:55 PM
Springfield45's Avatar
Springfield45 Springfield45 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,419
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Personally, I would cherish an original Colt and not shoot it or shoot it very little at reduced loads. Modern replicas are much stronger than the originals and are very close in feel and function. I would not even think about putting a conversion cylinder in a original Colt. Conversion cylinders are made to fit specific brands of new reproduction's. Don't do it. There is not going to be any more Originals made. We are the curators of the past and it is up to us to preserve it.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-13-2022, 8:22 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springfield45 View Post
Personally, I would cherish an original Colt and not shoot it or shoot it very little at reduced loads. Modern replicas are much stronger than the originals and are very close in feel and function. I would not even think about putting a conversion cylinder in a original Colt. Conversion cylinders are made to fit specific brands of new reproduction's. Don't do it. There is not going to be any more Originals made. We are the curators of the past and it is up to us to preserve it.
i agree. do you have any input on the gun's price or the barrel?
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-13-2022, 9:00 PM
Wheellock's Avatar
Wheellock Wheellock is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Victorville area
Posts: 963
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluorideInMyWater View Post
so i found another one on an auction site.
gun is all original with matching serials EXCEPT for the barrel. the barrel is within the same period i believe. gun is 2-million and the barrel is 2.1 million. it's a civilian model i was told and that only 1000 were made that year (1867).

my only concern is the barrel. it has dings and pits on the part with the colt navy address but the rest looks ok. seller wants $1650, gun seems to have a lot going for it except for the non-matching barrel. i'm not sure how much another barrel would be or if there is any way to track down a barrel by serial # (that would be cool). if it weren't for the dings it be all-in, so i need some feed back.
attached are a few pics for your consideration.
From what I've seen, $1650 would be on the low end for a functional 1851 Navy. FYI, your decimal point is off on the serial number, they made a bit over 200,000, not millions, that M1 rifle lingo is coming through . Cartridges were taking over by 1867 so low production for that year is not a surprise on an older design like the 1851. The upside, is the later revolvers generally saw less use and are frequently in better condition than those that went through the gold rush or the Civil War, etc.

I would get lots of pics and compare to resource material for how the Colt address should be and font and size for serial number stampings. Here is one with a close-ish serial number for comparison

https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/p...avy-ac234.html
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-13-2022, 9:55 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheellock View Post
From what I've seen, $1650 would be on the low end for a functional 1851 Navy. FYI, your decimal point is off on the serial number, they made a bit over 200,000, not millions, that M1 rifle lingo is coming through . Cartridges were taking over by 1867 so low production for that year is not a surprise on an older design like the 1851. The upside, is the later revolvers generally saw less use and are frequently in better condition than those that went through the gold rush or the Civil War, etc.

I would get lots of pics and compare to resource material for how the Colt address should be and font and size for serial number stampings. Here is one with a close-ish serial number for comparison

https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/p...avy-ac234.html
yes, you are correct. my decimal point was significantly off. original was 200,xxx and barrel was 210,xxx
i was told by a collector, who i'm assuming looked it up , that only 4K were made in 1867 for the civilian/private party crowd.
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-14-2022, 6:53 PM
FluorideInMyWater's Avatar
FluorideInMyWater FluorideInMyWater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,731
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

i tried and tried to contact the seller and he refused to respond. wanted another picture of the top of the barrel and bore.

i then started doing research and came across a great site.

so at 2am, i still had not heard back from the dealer and started searching the web.

there is a great site
https://www.gunvaluesboard.com

people log in who know what they are talking about and it's all about accessing the true value of any gun by experts.....for free.
i posted my question with pics, and an expert commented 6 or 7 hours later.

here was his response and his/her opinion of the gun in great detail. stuff i never would have known or thought of.

here was their response

>>>>>>>>>>>

fluorideinmywater - the frame of this Colt Model 1851 Navy was made in 1867 while the barrel was made in 1872. Both major parts would be classified as a Late Fourth Model variant. The remaining finish is 0% and several screws appear to have been replaced including the one in the butt and the one in the front of the trigger guard. The grips have been heavily sanded and refinished or replaced. The fact that two parts, the barrel and the wedge, are not original to the gun do affect the value significantly. I would say it is a $1200-$1500 gun at best. You can do better for $1700.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
so if you ever have a question regarding value of a gun and want someone in the know to commen on it and access it, i highly recommend it. i would not have had a clue about screws and the handle being sanded and refinished and the other stuff above.
do check out this site. it's worthwhile if you are in the market of a collectors item!!!!!
__________________
No longer FluorideInMyWater. (California)
now the infamous "CalciumDepositsInMyWater" (Cancun)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:25 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy

Tactical Pants Tactical Boots Military Boots 5.11 Tactical