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Firearms Accessories: Holsters, Safes, Lights & more If it locks up, carries, fits on to or cleans up your firearms, discuss it here. |
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Basic safe information for beginners
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That page, at the bottom, has the direct links to twenty five (25) manufacturers' web sites, where anyone can explore the models available. Information at those links can help you answer questions like "How does X compare to Y?" For further questions along those lines, it would be really helpful if you would provide the brand name and model number, and even better to provide a link to the manufacturer's web page for that exact safe. The next link is on the above page, but Brown Safe Manufacturing has a page (among many others on the web) that explains the safe ratings for burglary and fire resistance. Lots of other info at Brown Safe, so browse a bit. Some important terms in safe theft-resistance: * Net Working Time - This is the UL term for testing time which is spent trying to break into a safe using tools such as diamond grinding wheels, high-speed drills with pressure applying devices, or common hand tools such as hammers, chisels, saws, and carbide-tip drills. If a safe has been rated with a 30-minute net working time, (TL30), the rating certifies that the safe successfully withstood a full 30 minutes of attack time with a range of tools. * Theft resistant - This rating means the safe provides a combination lock and minimal theft protection. * Residential Security Container rating (RSC) - This UL rating is based on testing conducted for a net working time of five minutes, on all sides, with a range of tools. It costs the manufacturers money to have Underwriters' Labs certify their products. It is a manufacturer's business decision whether to spend that money for that purpose, and the lack of a UL rating is not necessarily a negative indicator. ------ Brief FAQ ------ Should I anchor my safe? Generally, YES. If someone can move it in, someone else can move it out.Can I put my safe in my garage? Generally, YES. If temperatures fluctuate inside the safe, you may need desiccant or something like a Golden Rod to keep moisture away from your guns.Can I put my safe upstairs? MAYBE.Why can't I find Safe X on DOJ's Roster of Firearm Safety Devices Certified for Sale? If it's a safe-sized box, it does not have to be on that Roster. DOJ says safes can be acceptable unlisted:How big a safe should I get? Folk wisdom is "twice as big as you think you'll need". That doesn't always make economic sense, of course, but the number of guns - and other valuable things which fit in safes - tends to grow rather quickly.Should I get a manual dial or an electronic keypad lock? If you get a good one, it seems to be a tossup.California Law and safes Once you have selected and installed a safe, or acquired a 'lock box', it is sometimes possible to satisfy California's firearms safety device requirement by submitting a 'safe affidavit' when purchasing a firearm.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 09-23-2011 at 8:27 PM.. |
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Some technical information...
What does 'gauge' mean for steel? See the chart here: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ga...eet-d_915.htmlHow are burglary safes tested? Here's the Underwriter's Laboratory description: http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/c...tymyths/safes/What is the actual construction of a TL-15 or TL-30 Burglary resistant safe? AMSEC has put that on their web site:============ 12/31/2011 Member cranemech found this excellent safe/lock Q&A site: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Locksmithing-3110/
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 12-31-2011 at 2:17 PM.. |
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Feel free to add info to make this a better FAQ.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
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I filled out the bottom half of the affidavit (for DOJ lockbox) and produced the receipt from the online company it was purchased from. I made sure it was on the list. All went smoothly. thanks
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Just found what seems to be a useful link:
There is also an entire blog about gun safes - http://gunsafesblogger.com/ - associated with a commercial site. (They're big fans of 'buy American' - a good plan, I think, if you can afford it.) Quote:
And, member cranemech found this excellent safe/lock Q&A site: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Locksmithing-3110/ Although it has little to do with safes, this .pdf doc has a nice discussion of locks: http://www.blackhat.com/presentation...t_ollam-WP.pdf Gun Hoo has reviews and comparisons; they say they are Quote:
Update 6/26/13 Another article, this time from Gun World - their Buyer's Guide (2011)
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 07-18-2015 at 12:58 PM.. Reason: update link |
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Two issues I continue to wonder about:
* Best moisture barrier to install if safe is bolt to concrete slab. Many have moisture problems. * How do you seal the penetrations in the safe (bolt holes, power hole, etc) to address moisture (maintain moisture barrier) and fire concerns (heat expanding sealer?). |
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You question about sealing holes against fire penetration, a simple commercial fire caulk will do the trick. DO NOT USE product designated residential fire block, they are not the same. Great Stuff Fireblock (expanding foam) is flammable... worthless. Get the 3m stuff it's the right way to go. |
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#11
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Very informative gun safe video *WATCH*
Great info for anyone, especially us gun owners.
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Dillon reloading basics Vids here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=190727 |
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Long and fundamental
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God so loved the world He gave His only Son... Believe in Him and have everlasting life. John 3:16 NRA,,, Lifer United Air Epic Fail Video ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99Q7pNAjvg |
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question here I am soon to be first time gun owner on 02/09/2013 and who do I submit the safe affidavit too, would I need to submit directly by mail or fax to CA DOJ or to the FFL. I will be buying a safe in the next couple of days before I pick up the firearm.
Last edited by ROAD_DOG; 02-04-2013 at 12:34 AM.. |
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FFL keeps it, as documentation the gun was delivered as the law requires.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
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oh ok I see and would I need to have the lock box or safe with me when I pick up the firearm to transport back home.
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One issue to be aware of is galvantic corrosion. If you use metal as a barrier between the safe and the floor, make sure it's the same kind of metal as the safe. In other words, if you have a steel safe, don't use aluminum sheeting, or you will actually accelerate the corrosion process if any moisture ever gets in there. This is particularly an issue if you live near the ocean, as salts compound the problem. The key point is just to make sure the metals don't touch, however... if you wanted to use sheet aluminum but cover the sheeting with a plastic/rubber membrane, like shower pan liner, that would solve the metal-to-metal problem. This can be an issue (to a MUCH lesser extent) with steel to steel as well, if you use drastically different grades of sheet steel, so I'd go ahead use some sort of barrier there as well. Personally, I'm thinking some ceramic floor tiles would do the job of elevating the safe a tad without any danger of burning, and they'd be plenty strong enough to hold the weight (as long as the safe is lowered onto them relatively carefully). |
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I'm no expert on safes, I just have some experience with unexpected issues with dissimilar metals in wet conditions. Any sort of effective non-metal vapor barrier should be fine, I'd think. The one advantage to raising the safe off the ground, however, is keeping things bone dry in the hopefully unlikely event of unexpected water. One spilled beer (let alone an actual water leak) can introduce water between the floor and whatever is touching the floor. If its the safe touching the floor, whether or not the floor itself it waterproof won't stop liquid for wicking in, and once between the floor and the safe bottom, that moisture is going to be stuck for a LONG time. That's why I like the idea of getting the safe up off the ground at least 1/4" or so, and ideally allowing at least some airflow to dry anything that manages to get in along the floor (or at least it won't matter since its not the safe bottom).
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#22
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A sturdy dolly and a couple (few) good friends. I just had a 560 lb safe delivered awhile back. One trick that helps quite a bit is taking the door off before you move it. This reduces the weight significantly.
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NRA MEMBER |
#23
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For you fellas worried about leaving a gap under the safe for fear of crooks using a sawzall and hacking your anchor bolts and stealing the safe, FEAR NOT!!! A trip to your local auto parts store and about $25 bucks will make them damn near impossible to saw!!! Get yourself 4 wheel hub bearings. The ones shaped like this, \_/ and its a ton of needle bearings covering the outside. Have fun cutting them, lol. Iv found its pretty damn hard to cut somethig that spins. A buddy of mine showed me this trick. And i tried to prove him wrong with a sawzall and attack the bearing covered anchor bolts that were secured to the garage floor. I failed miserably. cheap investment that will almost guarentee your safe stays put.
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The only things that are not illegal in California,.... are ILLEGALS. |
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Hello, still kinda new here on the CG site but as a 3rd generation locksmith and safe tech, if anyone has any questions concerning the physical safe or locks, feel free to pm me. I have used, sold, installed and worked on a number of safes and vaults through the years. So if I don't have the answer right away I can certainly get the information to you and or point you in the right direction.
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http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/articles/
Lots of useful info. |
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Don't know why I was looking, but ran across this a day or so ago: http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/EMP/
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
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Is this a blog entry? As these info's are really unique and helpful and I also want to know more about California law and rules about gun safes, So can you provide me a source for it which is carrying detail entry in that matter?
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KenSFO posted this link: http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/article...-fire-ratings/
Good info. Same source as Tararam linked to in 2014.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
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I've installed a few of these since 2014 and have had no calls about problems. I have even installed two on TL-30X6 rated safes. The mechanical function is an internal 3-wheel mechanism similar to LaGard or S&G, but it is hidden from the outside to the casual inspection. The keypad they use is Gorilla glass, like the iPhone and is very durable and reliable. It's not cheap, but if you want reliability and EMP protection, it's a good choice. Here's are two links to YouTube videos about the lock. The first is more introductory and is about 2 minutes long. The second is a more in-depth look at the lock, set-up, programming, combination-changing, etc.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWXHgrNs3Ss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK2GlyFbJKI KenSFO https://www.advancedsafe.com/
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Installation video for the SafeLogic Xtreme EMP-proof Lock
This one is made by the factory customer service department. I've found that SecuRam's instructional videos (both for consumers and safe technicians) are quite well done and that customer and professional safetech support are both top notch!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZOwQJJBtpE KenSFO http://www.advancedsafe.com
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Updated Xtreme installation instructions
This video was added to SecuRam's YouTube playlist because it shows the installation as a retrofit for another brand of E-lock. It also emphasizes, from the very beginning, the importance of properly installing the safe's relock check plate on the new Xtreme to prevent a lockout.
Unbelievable as it might seem, I've been called out to open safes that were locked-up by locksmiths because they either failed to properly secure the relock check plate and/or they neglected to test the lock and boltwork functions at least 3 times before closing the safe door after an installation or during service. As I've said, the videos and support from SecuRam are quite good and always being improved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYRMLjRF9AI KenSFO https://www.advancedsafe.com/
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I found this website with a ton of good information on different types of safes and rankings for each category: https://www.expertsafereviews.com/
Not much on Gun Safes yet, but their handgun safe and accessory information is dead on. |
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Article on Underwriter's Labs Fire ratings for safes
UL 72 and related: https://gunsafereviewsguy.com/articl...-fire-ratings/
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 11-18-2018 at 9:21 AM.. |
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A review page, comparing some RSCs and some real safes: https://topratedgunsafes.com/best-gun-safes/
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
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A site explaining burglary ratings, and some of the non-Underwriter's Labs fire ratings -
https://www.maximumsecurity.com/safe...-Guide-d92.htm
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
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Tips for moving your safe in place
First, depending on the size and weight, making this a DIY project could be a dangerous disaster. Leverage is your friend however it can become you worst nightmare if a really heavy object tilts a little too far and somebody becomes a pancake. Seriously consider getting a couple of quotes from a reputable company and let them take the responsibility of damages and injury.
With that said I did move my 48x26x72 1800 lb safe in place with the help of my daughter, methodical planning, and an indispensable tool called Roll-A-Lifts. Moved it from the garage, around through my front door, through the kitchen, and in to a room. Took about 4 hours from start to finish including cutting and laying down plywood to protect the wood and tile floors, making a ramp, etc. Before moving anything I bought several cardboard moving boxes and taped them together to use as a model of my safe. Then I used the model to check clearances, making corners, etc.. When I tried the model on the "plan A" route (the short route) through my house I discovered I couldn’t make the last turn due to the dimensions of the safe so this step saved me a lot of wasted time and effort. After planning a new route I used the boxes to put under the plywood so I didn’t scratch the wood floors with the plywood. I used 1.5" wooden dowels to roll the safe in it's final place as the Roll-A-Lifts would not allow me to get it against the interior walls. As for moisture barriers I used a rubber mat of sorts under my safe. They are usually referred to as livestock mats or stall mats and are generally made from recycled rubber and range from 1/4" thick to maybe 5/8" thick. |
#39
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All good advice here, especially the template. I just had Boswell install a 42" x 24" x 72" 1400# safe at my place. It's an extremely meticulous process. They used a low profile pallet jack and it took about 90 minutes to get from the sidewalk to a relatively simple location in my garage. Best $400 I've spent in a while. They use hockey pucks for moisture, but my safe has "feet" built in so didn't need them.
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#40
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Having a great safe is great, but providing a reliable, layered defense system is essential.
1. Make it difficult to get to the safe. If the safe is in the house or garage, fortify the doors/locks to resist entry. Many doors can be opened by jamming a screw driver between the door and jam and prying until the latch releases. A less-sophisticated entry can be made simply by kicking the door. The door jambs are often made with cheap pine. The lock may hold, but the jamb will splinter and come apart. This is helped along by using short screws to hold the locking plate in the jamb. Using 4" screws which can reach the stud behind the jamb significantly reinforces that point. Longer screws to hold the hinges work on the other side. Metal reinforcement plates are available to further reinforce. 2. Get an alarm system on the house...and use it. 3. As a minimum, get a portable camera and siren like the Ring series battery-powered stick up. Motion detector turns on spotlight and siren while the camera videos the the action and transmits to you. Nobody's gonna hang around with a siren and camera running.
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
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