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  #1  
Old 05-08-2021, 12:22 AM
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Default EOTech EXPS3-2 & G33 for 3-gun

Im interested to know if anyone uses a eotech + magnifier for 3 gun on their ARs. ($1200)

Seems like quite a few people have thrown their hats in for the Vortex Razor hd gen II-E ($1400).

Iike the fact that eotech has a wide viewing window. My eyes aren't super so a large eyebox is a plus. Not sure if i would just need the sight or the g33 magnifier also. Would i need 3x or would 2x be acceptable?
I should note that i do like the coolness and aesthetics of this setup, more than a traditional Riflescopes.

Now, Im not opposed to traditional Riflescopes, as long as it has good glass and a nice reticle. I do like BDC reticles, and that is the only thing I don't like about the vortex razer. No usable indicators to judge range or distance with.

So...any comments about going eotech for 3 gun?
Any comments/recommendations about a tradition rifle scope with more reticle features and good glass? I guess my budget is $1000-$1800.

Thanks in advance!
John
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  #2  
Old 05-08-2021, 12:32 AM
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Eotech with a Unity flip to center.
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  #3  
Old 05-08-2021, 3:37 AM
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Just saw the Trijicon Credo.
2 pros. Better reticle (IMO) and an integrated throw lever that is easy and smooth.
Anyone? Anyone? Bueler?
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Old 05-08-2021, 6:18 AM
HKAllTheThings HKAllTheThings is online now
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I think the -2 reticle is quite useless since it aligns with something like 500 yards and You need shorter drops in between. Their -4 reticle is more useful.
Having said that, an LPVO is a lot more versatile.
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Old 05-08-2021, 8:05 AM
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So a single dot MOA is better than the 2....and 4 is better than 2 (and 1 dot?)...but a 6x Lpvo is better than holigraphics?
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Old 05-08-2021, 8:11 AM
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Isn't it harder to see the 4 moa dots sonce they are so close together?
I wish someone would make a video with the 4 dots and then showing them at 1 moa and then thru the 3x g33.
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Old 05-08-2021, 8:13 AM
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Those BDC dots are made to use under magnification. You're not supposed to use them at 1X.

3-gun and rifle matches are a series of shooting drills to test your equipment and skill from 0-400 yards. For those requirements, an LPVO is the better choice.
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Old 05-08-2021, 2:39 PM
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I don't know anything about 3-gun matches, but I train a lot and have the setup you're inquiring about: a 3-2 paired with a flip-to-side G33. I love it, and find it intuitive and flexible.

I can tell you I don't even notice the second lower dot in the reticle until I use the magnifier, and its published purpose is a 500-yard holdover. The furthest I've ever been able to shoot is 375 yards, so I haven't used it.

The problems with ballistic reticles marked with distance holdovers? A) They don't take into account environmental conditions like temperature, angle to target, and humidity; B) barrel length & twist; C) ammunition; D) or the shooter's ability to recognize what a target looks like at a fairly precise distance. In other words, a 500-yard buzzer might be nice, but can you identify when something is 500 yards away, vs. 370, vs. 600?

The nice part is, the EOTech reticle can be used for hasty range estimation, assuming you're working with torso and head targets:

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Old 05-09-2021, 7:42 AM
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The razors gen II has 3 different reticles
JM BDC reticle drop compensated and the ability to measure a 19" target (shoulder to shoulder)
Mil/moa reticle both can be used for measuring/ranging more accurately than a BDC, but is slower.
RDS are better for 10-100
BDC are faster for unknown distances
Mil/Moa are better for precision shots

For a 24/7 fighting rig a RDS with magnifier is better day and night paired with night vision
For 3 gun a BDC will be better for all around use.

I've been also looking for a do it all optic and the options I look for in order is ocular diaopter (I don't want to wear corrective glasses), day light bright dot, FFP BDC reticle with wind holds, durability, large eye box, low weight, cost, capped turrets. I've looked a t VCOG, Credo, Vudu, Razors II/III, NX8, Steiners, Khales, Tango 6T, Elcan DR, Mk6, etc and non fit my requirements with the closest is the Razor gen III 1-10 with the biggest con being the 22oz weight + mount will be over 2Lbs.

At the moment I'm using a Aimpoint 4moa (best size for my slight astigmatism)
CCO with a 3X-C magnifier (has a diaopter) in a Larue flip to the side mount. This set up is good for 300 yards since the dot size is 16" @ that distance, sure you can use a 32" dot at 400 but IMHO it covers up too much of your target and smaller 2 MOA T1/Pro/MRO is a slash or grapes under a magnifier.

For a 3gun rig weight/size doesn't matter as much, but I want to run it the way I'd use it in any scenario.
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Old 05-09-2021, 12:09 PM
anthracite anthracite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKAllTheThings View Post
I think the -2 reticle is quite useless since it aligns with something like 500 yards and You need shorter drops in between. Their -4 reticle is more useful.
Having said that, an LPVO is a lot more versatile.
Anyone know if the 3-4 comes in FDE or is it only Black?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pratchett View Post
I don't know anything about 3-gun matches, but I train a lot and have the setup you're inquiring about: a 3-2 paired with a flip-to-side G33. I love it, and find it intuitive and flexible.

I can tell you I don't even notice the second lower dot in the reticle until I use the magnifier, and its published purpose is a 500-yard holdover. The furthest I've ever been able to shoot is 375 yards, so I haven't used it.

The problems with ballistic reticles marked with distance holdovers? A) They don't take into account environmental conditions like temperature, angle to target, and humidity; B) barrel length & twist; C) ammunition; D) or the shooter's ability to recognize what a target looks like at a fairly precise distance. In other words, a 500-yard buzzer might be nice, but can you identify when something is 500 yards away, vs. 370, vs. 600?

The nice part is, the EOTech reticle can be used for hasty range estimation, assuming you're working with torso and head targets:

Good points pratchett. I have learned from multiple training courses that not only am I HORRIBLE at judging distance, I also use different types of ammo every time I shoot.

God I love EOTechs and have always wanted a HWS setup with Magnifier, but the horror stories of delamination have traumatized me I feel like.
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  #11  
Old 05-09-2021, 12:26 PM
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You know that you range targets beforehand in 3-gun, right?
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Old 05-09-2021, 2:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKAllTheThings View Post
You know that you range targets beforehand in 3-gun, right?
This is true, but some newer shooters will get lost in the field
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Old 05-09-2021, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthracite View Post
Anyone know if the 3-4 comes in FDE or is it only Black?

Never seen one. With COVID, EOTech did post on their FB a while back that they're only going to focus their production line on their most popular models.

The BDC model wasn't popular so you likely won't see them new for some time.
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Old 05-09-2021, 4:05 PM
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I spray painted one in FDE and it came out surprisingly good for how little effort I put into it. Then again, I tend to be hard on gear.

I'm just hoping they hurry up with their G45. I want to try out that setup in the worst way.
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  #15  
Old 05-10-2021, 5:43 AM
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Have you seen the eotech vudu? It has a reticle inside the reticle when you are at 6x. It's a BDC type reticle, but wjen you zoom back to 1x it looks and feels like an eotech exps3-0...however ot is not daytime bright. I like the razor but so many people have commented that changing magnification is really hard. I wonder if there is a fix. I see photos with top names using it....but i might get frustrated.
The trijicon credo looks good....just haven't seen enough feedback to go with it. I'd be willing to spend $1600 for a scope that does not have any of the issues above. An eotech exps3 can be set up with different magnifiers....there os a 2x-5x which would allow you to choose a magnification power in advance. Like just 4x, which "should" be good for 400 yard. But all i have to go by is YouTube video reviews.
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Old 05-10-2021, 5:57 AM
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https://youtu.be/pCseCsThnNc
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Old 05-10-2021, 9:15 AM
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Lookup supersetca on youtube, if you're even interested in an lpvo.
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Old 05-10-2021, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FluorideInMyWater View Post
Have you seen the eotech vudu? It has a reticle inside the reticle when you are at 6x. It's a BDC type reticle, but wjen you zoom back to 1x it looks and feels like an eotech exps3-0...however ot is not daytime bright. I like the razor but so many people have commented that changing magnification is really hard. I wonder if there is a fix. I see photos with top names using it....but i might get frustrated.
The trijicon credo looks good....just haven't seen enough feedback to go with it. I'd be willing to spend $1600 for a scope that does not have any of the issues above. An eotech exps3 can be set up with different magnifiers....there os a 2x-5x which would allow you to choose a magnification power in advance. Like just 4x, which "should" be good for 400 yard. But all i have to go by is YouTube video reviews.
The mag ring on the gen III 1-10 razor is smooth without the chance of it rotating rubbing on gear. The is a fix for the 1-6 razor by lubing the o-ring. As for the Credo it's been posted it's day light visible, but not daylight bright. IMHO an RDS + 3x mag is great to @ 200 yards, do able 300, but meh @ 400. A 4/5/6X magnifier has a lot of cons with size, clarity, edge distortion, eye relief/box etc which IMHO a LPVO does short to medium range better in most situations. It's definitely a battle to find a 1 and done optic, a RDS + mag can do some of what a LPVO, a LPVO can do some of what a RDS does but is not ideal for trying to fill a precision optic role.
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Old 05-10-2021, 2:19 PM
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I've had both set ups, XPS w G33 and Lvpo.

I don't have the Eotech anymore but I do run my lpvo. If that tells you anything.

My main reasons were weight vs magnification and eye relief.

Weight:
Eotech (11.2ox) w G33 (11.9) 23.2oz
Vortex Razor gen iii 22oz (w/out mount)

Good mount is approx 7oz, (Warne skel gen 2 6.7oz)
for me to get the extra distance for only 6 oz is a no brainer, for my general uses of course not 3 gun.

Eye relief:
G33 2.2 in
Vortex 4in

Huge difference, but the holographic on its own has no eye box. So to each his own there. But I prefer the consistent 4 inches.

Now if you want a great light Red dot with magnifier I'd say MRO HD and 3x Micro magnifier is a solid set up. Same 68 moa and 2 moa reticle but at least a pound lighter.

Have a good one.

Last edited by etwinam; 05-10-2021 at 2:22 PM..
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Old 05-11-2021, 4:45 AM
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At the club I shoot 2 and 3 gun at , all the mid to top pack guys run lpvo's and stages sometimes go out to 350-400 yds. I run a Steiner p4xi but secretly want a razor.
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  #21  
Old 05-12-2021, 3:34 AM
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how does the vortex razor compare to the triicon credo?
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Old 05-12-2021, 7:57 AM
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Credo isn't daylight bright
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Old 06-05-2021, 2:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKAllTheThings View Post
Credo isn't daylight bright
yes, i saw a review that said the same thing. i like the reticle though.
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