#41
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To the detractors, why would you not support this show? Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it 100 percent perfectly accurate to scripture? No. But what types of shows would you rather see on television? Shows like The Bachelor, skanky House Wives, Kardashians?
Or would you rather see shows that bring the Lord front and center promoting Christian values? |
#42
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Ex20:4 ?You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5 ?You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, V.4 commands "You shall not make"...or...or...or... V.5 commands "you shall not worship them"... Both are a serious sin. God wants us to see Him ONLY through His Word. Our minds grab onto these Hollywood images and become our visual image of Him. These are INFINITELY less that who He really is. God wants our image of Jesus Christ to be in our "mind's eye" according to what He has revealed about Himself in Scripture only. Christ even chose that His earthly body would not be an attraction (Is 53 quoted above). Christ wanted the people then to see Him for what He said and did. It's still the same today. Blessings,
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#43
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8Then the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." 9And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived. (NASB Numbers 21:8-9) The reason why that's not considered idolatry is because they didn't worship the snake. But the act of making the likeness of the serpent was not idolatry. So isolating verse 4 from 5 isn't an accurate interpretation. |
#44
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Yes, there were conversations and various interactions that are not in the Bible. It's a TV show, after all. I liked learning about the historical and cultural context. They're not reciting the Bible. It's theater. So the analogy of a counterfeit Bible is not appropriate. I do acknowledge that this is no substitute for a Bible study and it's important to be rooted in fundamental theology from the Bible rather than from TV shows and movies. There were so many touching scenes in there that made me appreciate how loving our God is. It's just a way more wholesome show to watch than so many others out there. |
#45
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Yes, you can "isolate" to the extent that v.4 can stand alone, but v.5 refers back to v.4 ("them") so cannot. We are not to create any art that attempts to depict God the Father, Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit using anything in creation! Think of it from God's side - He is SO glorious that NOTHING man can make could be an accurate likeness of Him AND we get the most glorious understanding of Him through Scripture, unclouded by movie depictions that we cannot get out of our brain! Peter understood these commands and didn't try to explain WHAT our glorious inheritance is, so instead used words that it is not: 1 Pe1:4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, Blessings, Bill
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther Last edited by billvau; 10-24-2023 at 4:44 PM.. |
#46
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"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth." Exodus 20:4 However, Exodus 20:5 is needed to provide the definition of what the idol is - that which we worship or serve. "You shall not worship them or serve them; [rest redacted]" Exodus 20:5 |
#47
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First, the serpent. God sent the serpents to a complaining Israel. Numbers 21:5 The people spoke against God and Moses, ?Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and we loathe this miserable food.? 6 The LORD sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died. The people recognize their complaining as sin and the serpents as punishment, so want to repent: Nu21:7 So the people came to Moses and said, ?We have sinned, because we have spoken against the LORD and you; intercede with the LORD, that He may remove the serpents from us.? And Moses interceded for the people. God provides a way of repentance - WILLFULLY look at the serpent on the pole. IOW, trust Me that you won't be bit by looking at the serpent on the pole. Nu21:8 Then the LORD said to Moses, ?Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live.? 9 And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived. First, in the context, is there ANY explanation that this serpent on the pole represents God? No. It is simply God's way of making them do something to show willful trust in His solution to getting bit. Now, to New Testament where Jesus uses this passage in John John 3:14?16. Jn3:14 ?As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 ?For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Notice the language in v.14: As...even so must... <-- This is the language of illustration / analogy. You could say "in the same way." All Jesus is doing is using the serpent story as an analogy to what He must do on the cross for men to be saved as He explains with "so that" (purpose). In Numbers, looking at the serpent saved your physical life. In John 3, the simple analogy illustrates a MUCH bigger picture than just looking at the physical cross. It has to because salvation includes repentance of sin, understanding and believing in the work that Christ did by His sinless life, death on the cross for sins, and resurrection for His successful work. We don't even have the cross to use if this is what He literally meant! IOW, illustration / analogy only. Back to Exodus 20. The context of God, Who He is, How He expects to be represented, How He is to be respected, and How He is to be worshipped is necessary. First, you cannot pull these "or..." out to just say that we can't make a sculpture of a tree, etc. And, the meaning of "worship and serve" are critical. In context, worship is much broader than what we call worship. It has a wide meaning that means respect, honor, etc. It's used other places in the OT. Yes, there are two separate commands here. The second is dependent on the second. The first is the critical one for this discussion. V.4 says that in the context discussing God, Who He is, and How he expects to be represented, we are not to "MAKE for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth." God ONLY wants to be represented by HIS REVELATION of Himself ("what is in heaven above") (Think Colossians 3:1-2). That's means the Bible only / thinking only. Nothing of the heavens or earth or water is to be used in any shape or form relative to God. And, certainly for idol worship! So, Of course, it makes sense that He doesn't want someone representing His "likeness" as a tree, fish, bird, etc. We get that. But, to take an actor, put even biblical words in His script and have him represent Christ, is a far greater abomination to God. From God's point-of-view, that actor, that show, is trying to represent God to us. Abomination. Anyways, there's a lot of context here, a lot of Hebrew mindset, Hebrew word meanings, etc. I checked the best Hebrew-based commentaries for accuracy of interpretation. Before I was saved, I loved "Jesus of Nazareth." I recorded it off TV and watched it several times. My mind is forever engraved with the blue-eyed, gentle-looking, tall, slender, Robert Powell as Jesus. Then, I got saved,read Is. 53, and was appalled that I had a picture of Jesus that wasn't even close! And then I realized God didn't want me to have any worldly impression of Him! So, I never watched it again, and filled myself with who Jesus Christ is from the Bible - His character, His divinity, His way of living and serving. I'm learning a person (Eph. 4:20) and am in CLOSE personal fellowship / communion with Him every minute of every day (1 Cor. 1:9). I wouldn't ever dream of giving up my time with Him to watch some earthbound show that will play to my worldly flesh and only draw me away from real communion with Him. How many of us would rather spend time with another woman who pretends to act/be our wife? I'll stick with the real one... Blessings,
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#48
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Thanks for taking time to explain your reasoning.
If I'm hearing you correctly, because one of the purposes of Exodus 20 is to describe how God wants to be worshipped, v4 should be interpreted to mean that the idol or the likeness prohibited in that command refers to prohibiting making of idols and likeness of God? If that's your view, I think the difference I have with that view is that I think that commandment prohibits anything that we worship as a substitute of God (i.e. worshipping the creation instead of the creator). Even though I agree with your premise that Exodus 20 describes how God wants to be worshipped, I just don't see that it only applies to the likeness of God. I'm just not convinced that a depiction of God is forbidden in that commandment, as long as I'm not worshipping that depiction instead of the real God. |
#49
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So, separate the worship part. Just think about how infinitely poor any likeness of Him is. Meditate on Scriptures that describe / explain Him and let those inspire your awe of His glory. Blessings,
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#50
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the fact that our Lord and Savior was both fully human and fully Divine is the linchpin upon which our salvation rests. to deny this is heresy.
as a human, it is fitting and proper to represent Him in two dimensional images, as the early Christians did. this whole argument points to the necessity of reading all Scripture in a Christological sense. the Mosaic Law is fulfilled in Him and therefore is obsolete for Christians. Acts 9, 10 and 15 make this clear. whether this film is blasphemous is another discussion.
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MAGA |
#51
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Blessings,
__________________
Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#52
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Isn't it great that we are no longer under the LAW but live under GRACE?
Thank you, Jesus! "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:4
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If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan |
#53
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This series is meant to lead people away from Christ. There, I said it! Blessings,
__________________
Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#54
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Since we are New Testament believers, we are freed from the bondage of sin, which allows us to freely live out the moral law in the Ten Commandments, summarized by Jesus Christ in Matt. 22:36-40: ?You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ?You shall love your neighbor as yourself.? On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets? 1 John 5:21 summarizes the two parts of Exodus 20:4-5. There are two violations of Exodus 20:4-5. First, the MAKING of any likeness to represent God, and second, separately, the WORSHIP of it. 1 John 5:21 "Little children, guard yourselves from idols. " The moral law contained in Exodus 20:4-5 is still valid today. It nicely gives us the detail behind 1 John 5:21. There are many other passages in the NT that support the many facets of Exodus 20:4-5. I'd suggest that people stop looking for ways to justify watching this false teaching TV show and instead start looking for ways to be more obedient to God. Which is better? An hour in your Bible or an hour of this show? Do you even spend a solid, contiguous, hour in private Bible Study a week? A solid hour in private prayer? Yet, so many here want to argue against Scripture to be entertained by this Satan-inspired blasphemy.
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther Last edited by billvau; 10-29-2023 at 6:37 PM.. Reason: cut-and-paste of my Word writeup lost spacing and single quotes. |
#55
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God does want to have anyone make a representation of him, because he is so far above the human experience that we cannot begin to comprehend who or what he is. We cannot make an image and say God is like this. God is not like anything we could possibly imagine. He is infinitely beyond all that. To make an image of God is to lessen him, make him smaller. His ways and will is something we cannot begin to get even a handle on.
Jesus is God taking on human form. As the Church fathers said, into Jesus was poured all of God that a human being can hold. But God is way beyond what the Apostles saw in the Jesus that they knew so well. Anyone could see Jesus and what he was like. We are not supposed to want to see God. We are supposed to want to see Jesus. The Chosen helps us see Jesus. Amen to that !
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#56
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__________________
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan |
#58
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It's was sad watching the Georgia election results with Herschel Walker not quite having enough to win outright with no runoff necessary. Because there was a Libertarian taking away a few votes. So now we have a Libtard Democrat in the Senate.
It's sad to see Christians not supporting The Chosen because it isn't pure enough. So it goes unwatched, and instead the masses stream the woke trash from Hollywood. Not accepting the good, but hold out for what I think is perfect, seems very foolish to me.
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#59
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In general, the liberals will do what their overlords tell them, they're compliant and believe that the end justifies the means. You can put a pile of crap as their candidate and they'll vote for the crap. However, conservatives are generally independent-minded, principled and believe that the end does NOT justify the means (generally). So there's more in fighting, not as unified and individualistic. So people who believe that The Chosen is unbiblical won't support it even if it means that it could potentially have benefits. And I think that's fine. Everyone should have a clear conscience. |
#60
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HUH! Let me prepare my rebuttal. Oops looks like I can't think of any. Rats.
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#63
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Blessings,
__________________
Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#64
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If the Mormon church is behind the The Chosen, it's of Satan and this world, not of Christ.
__________________
Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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