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  #1  
Old 11-21-2020, 9:05 AM
sirdutch sirdutch is offline
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Default Shipping a Ruger Old Army to California

Isn't it legal to ship a Ruger Old Army cap and ball revolver directly to my door from out of state? It's a cap and ball. I realize some people in other states might be skittish to sell any firearm to California. However, isn't the Ruger Old Army a black powder pistol? I have found a seller who is willing to ship but I don't want to run afoul of the law. Any input will be appreciated.
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Old 11-21-2020, 9:20 AM
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Cap and ball revolvers do not require an FFL. If you look on GunBroker,
some sellers will require shipment to FFL, some won't ship to CA at all.
It's all up to the seller, who should at least verify you're 21 or older.
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Old 11-21-2020, 12:46 PM
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There was a time when ATF was jamming up FFLs and saying the Ruger Old Army was not a replica of anything antique, and so it needed a FFL transfer.

I am not sure where that ended up, but there are plenty of people who ship them with no FFL.

Generally speaking, Black Powder guns can be shipped into Ca wth no FFL. YMMV with the Old Army.
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Old 11-21-2020, 5:28 PM
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AFAIK...

BATFE determination that the Ruger Old Army is not an antique firearm is still in effect.

It is still treated as a modern firearm.

Ruger Old Army were not made before 1898.
Ruger Old Army is not a replica of a firearm that was made before 1898.
Ruger Old Army can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the cylinder.


18 USC 921
(a) As used in this chapter—
(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

Penal Code 16170
(b) As used in Section 16520, Section 16650, subdivision (a) of Section 23630, paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 27505, and subdivision (a) of Section 31615, “antique firearm” has the same meaning as in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code.
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Last edited by Quiet; 11-21-2020 at 5:45 PM..
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Old 11-22-2020, 8:47 AM
Ewok55 Ewok55 is offline
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Cartridge conversion cylinders are available for actual replica cap and ball revolvers too. Would a cylinder be considered a replaceable breechblock in the above definition?
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Old 11-22-2020, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewok55 View Post
Cartridge conversion cylinders are available for actual replica cap and ball revolvers too. Would a cylinder be considered a replaceable breechblock in the above definition?
I think first we'd have to determine if a cap and ball revolver meets the definition of 'muzzle loader'. Since it doesn't load from the muzzle

I am curious if 'muzzle loader' is defined anywhere.
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Old 11-22-2020, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewok55 View Post
Cartridge conversion cylinders are available for actual replica cap and ball revolvers too. Would a cylinder be considered a replaceable breechblock in the above definition?
In regards to metallic cartridge conversion of blackpowder revolver that is considered an antique firearm and CA laws/regulations...

Installing a metallica cartridge conversion to a blackpowder revolver, changes the antique firearm into a non-antique firearm.

This will cause the firearm to no longer qualify for the antique firearm exemptions to CA self-made firearm laws.

Which means it can now (post-2018) be confiscated as evidence of violating CA self-made firearm laws, due to not having CA DOJ marking info engraved on it & not being registered in AFS.

In order to avoid all that, the antique firearm will need to have a serial number engraved on it by the manufacturer of the antique firearm [PC 29181(a)] or the firearm would need to be engraved with CA DOJ marking info & registered with CA DOJ [PC 29180(b)].

Since these are no longer considered antique firearms, they will also need to be transferred through a CA FFL dealer.
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