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  #121  
Old 07-06-2020, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultwista26 View Post
...I am scared to bring a handgun back home if its not legal for me to do.
And there would be good reason to be scared of doing that. If you did that both you and your mother would qualify for up to five years in federal prison.

Federal law:
  1. Under federal law, any transfer of a gun (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. And a handgun must be transferred through an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.). There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  2. In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

  3. In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence. In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

  4. There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  5. The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

  6. Here's what the statutes say:
    Quote:
    18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    ...

    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph

    (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

    (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and

    (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
    ...

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    ....

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
    ...

    (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph

    (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

    (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    ...
  7. Violation of these federal laws is punishable by up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine. It also results in a lifetime loss of gun rights.
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  #122  
Old 07-06-2020, 4:59 PM
soultwista26 soultwista26 is offline
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I will have my mom shipped them to my local ffl along with the gift letter and copy of her TX DL. And also. Any ideas of what shipping company should my mom use to ship them to CA ffl??


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  #123  
Old 08-18-2020, 2:25 PM
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Default The misuse of the gift letter.

This is not a researched and reasoned professional opinion, but I question if a legally valid interstate intrafamilial transfer must be a gift. In fact, those persons, who in the hopes of being uber legal, are instructing their qualified out of state family member to provide a gift letter to the CA FFL may by doing such may find themselves charged with defrauding the California Franchise Tax Board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
People are convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time.

That said, a gift is the personal property of the receiver. It's where gun transactions come in that things can get hinky.

But 'straw purchase' is off topic for this thread. (hint)
While a straw purchase may well be off topic for this thread, is it not the fact that gift letters are provided so as not to raise the specter of a straw purchase. Anyone not knowing what one is should read up on it. There are plenty of discussions here on Calguns, but I kind of like this one from the NSSF.

Quote:
A straw purchase is any purchase in which a second person agrees to acquire a firearm for someone who is ineligible to purchase the firearm for himself.
This fits the situation in which a qualified family member and resident of another state agrees to acquire a firearm for a California resident who is inelegible to purchase an off roster handgun; usually due to their non exempt status. However, the family member is considered to be the real purchaser if it is bought as a gift; meaning with their money and not as part of what some describe as a wink wink fiction in which the money secretly finds it way from the true buyer, the so-called gift recipient.

This gets me to the point of this post, which is that some transfers other than gifts are perfectly legal. For instant, Dad bought a really sweet Sig P320, but he has many shooters and on a visit to him in TX, Dad discovers that Son can't get one in California because of some nonsense about a roster. Dad is retired and can't afford to either buy Son a new one or give him his own P320, but he sells it to Son at a bargain price and they arrange for its shipment to a Ca FFL to handle DROS and delivery as an interstate intrafamilial gift. Should Dad include a gift letter? If he does not, my understanding is that the FFL must collect state used tax (similar to a sales tax) for the Franchise Tax Board. I also believe if you include a letter stating what Dad actually sold the gun for than the use fee will be assessed.

If you want to lie to avoid a few bucks that is your business, but this thread is about explaining the law and how it affects us. Some will chose to play wink wink, but others will choose to pay the fee whether the likelihood of being caught is slight. Still, many provide those letters thinking that they must. IS THAT REALLY THE LAW?

Like Librarian often says, read the law, which in this case is Penal Code section 27875 (a).

Quote:
(a) Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a firearm by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met:
(1) The transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.
(2) The transfer is between members of the same immediate family.
(3) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The reports that individuals complete pursuant to this subdivision shall be made available to them in a format prescribed by the department.
(4) Until January 1, 2015, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a valid handgun safety certificate if the firearm is a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2015, a valid firearm safety certificate for any firearm, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.
(5) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
Please notice that I have place emphasis on the words or other means and I think for good reason. The plain language of PC 27875 makes it clear that, "Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a firearm by other means than gift, bequest, (or) intestate succession . . . from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met . . . ." A purchase transfer is certainly another means than a gift, bequest, or intestate succession. Where the plain language of a statute is clear and unambiguous, the court will not look at the intent of the Legislature. I never played much with criminal law, but I believe the courts will not entertain a prosecution where the law is so ambiguous that it fails to apprise the accused of the prohibited conduct. Such would be a denial of due process.

In sum, depending on the circumstances pertaining to an intertstate intrafamilial transaction one should consider if they are needlessly exposing themselves and/or a family member to a crime when submitting a gift letter. This is not to say that one is not perfectly proper in the more common situation where a family member purchases the gift with their money, but the point here is that it is perfectly legal if the weapon not be a gift, depending on the situation such as the one herein described. Dad bought the gun for himself and only later decided to sell it to Son. A straw purchase was never involved, but the Franchise Tax Board may have a case for fraud is one declares a gift that was a sale. For my money, I would pay the fee on a $600 used gun before risking trouble with the FTB.

Last edited by Chewy65; 08-18-2020 at 2:35 PM..
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  #124  
Old 08-18-2020, 2:31 PM
shaocaholica shaocaholica is offline
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It's not common to sell non capital items between your immediate family in the culture we live in. I would imagine gifting is the default and not the exception.

The pertinent question is if you actually paid your immediate family member cash money for it.

Last edited by shaocaholica; 08-18-2020 at 2:34 PM..
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  #125  
Old 08-18-2020, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultwista26 View Post
I will have my mom shipped them to my local ffl along with the gift letter and copy of her TX DL. And also. Any ideas of what shipping company should my mom use to ship them to CA ffl??


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Check with your local FFL. Some will not accept shipments from non-FFL's, though there is no law against it. You'll also want to check what their fees are as they can and will charge what ever they want. Lastly make sure they will do am Interstate Intrafamilar transfer, as some will not.

If they are OK with mom shipping the gun/s I recommend she uses:

www.shipmygun.com
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  #126  
Old 08-18-2020, 3:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
It's not common to sell non capital items between your immediate family in the culture we live in. I would imagine gifting is the default and not the exception.

The pertinent question is if you actually paid your immediate family member cash money for it.
And I wouldn't suggest declaring that you paid cash for a firearm if you hadn't.

Not all of us are equally financially blessed. Some of us would insist that a generous parent or grandparent let us pay them especially if they are letting their gun go at a great price. Especially those born into families of modest means, but who did fairly well in life.

Last edited by Chewy65; 08-18-2020 at 3:40 PM..
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  #127  
Old 08-18-2020, 3:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
This is not a researched and reasoned professional opinion, but I question if a legally valid interstate intrafamilial transfer must be a gift.

In fact, those persons, who in the hopes of being uber legal, are instructing their qualified out of state family member to provide a gift letter to the CA FFL may by doing such may find themselves charged with defrauding the California Franchise Tax Board.



While a straw purchase may well be off topic for this thread, is it not the fact that gift letters are provided so as not to raise the specter of a straw purchase. Anyone not knowing what one is should read up on it. There are plenty of discussions here on Calguns, but I kind of like this one from the NSSF.
I don't think the bolded is the case; might be wrong, don't have any statistics. (And, the NSSF definition, while 'traditional', differs from what SCOTUS ruled in Abramski.)

Many of the interstate intrafamilial transfers are to get off-Roster handguns into CA.

It's my guess that, in such a case, the gift letter addresses
Quote:
32000.

(a) A person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured,
imports into the state for sale,
keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale,
gives, or lends
an unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.
If it's a gift, it isn't a sale.
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Last edited by Librarian; 08-18-2020 at 3:59 PM..
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  #128  
Old 08-18-2020, 3:59 PM
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just playing devils advocate. so if I gave my daughter a gun worth $1000 for $800 that is still a gift. the gift is worth $200.
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  #129  
Old 08-18-2020, 4:44 PM
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Librarian. I also wasn't particularly pleased with that definition of a straw sale, but didn't want to get into case law and all as, as you said, straw purchases are off topic for this thread. One decision indicates that even if the ultimate buyer could legally buy a firearm the one making the buy perjured themselves is stating that he was the buyer and buy doing so deprived the United States from vetting the real buyer. Anyone wishing to can read the wikipeida entry on Abramski or look up the case and have a go at it.

I don't see how PC 32000 has a thing to do with whether an interstate intrafamilial transfer was of a unsafe gun bought from or given by a family member, but really don't have time to look at it in any depth. I represented a good friend and colleague that the FTB went after and from what I have heard about the DOJ, I would much prefer dealing with the gun grabbers.

Just how does the use of a gift letter get around, if 32000 applies, the fact that it covers a person in this state who "gives" an off roster handgun? A lot depends on when the transaction occurs. If not until the handgun is delivered at the end of DROSS, did the family member make the gift? Were they to be considered a person in this state? I think it a stretch but not more of a stretch if you consider them a person making a sale in this state. They simply are not persons in this state.

Last edited by Chewy65; 08-18-2020 at 5:13 PM..
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  #130  
Old 08-18-2020, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
just playing devils advocate. so if I gave my daughter a gun worth $1000 for $800 that is still a gift. the gift is worth $200.
To represent it as such is what is called fraud. The guys on the FFL board would know better, but I believe if what you claim was paid is unbelievable they are to collect a use fee for the value of the gun. Since this is a known intrafamily transaction, the FTF may be unwilling to accept a unbelievably low appraisal. I don't think they would quibble over a sale 20% below maket. But not 100% should they discover there was some money exchanged.

Last edited by Chewy65; 08-18-2020 at 5:22 PM..
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  #131  
Old 08-18-2020, 5:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
Librarian. I also wasn't particularly pleased with that definition of a straw sale, but didn't want to get into case law and all as, as you said, straw purchases are off topic for this thread. One decision indicates that even if the ultimate buyer could legally buy a firearm the one making the buy perjured themselves is stating that he was the buyer and buy doing so deprived the United States from vetting the real buyer. Anyone wishing to can read the wikipeida entry on Abramski or look up the case and have a go at it.

I don't see how PC 32000 has a thing to do with whether an interstate intrafamilial transfer was of a unsafe gun bought from or given by a family member, but really don't have time to look at it in any depth. I represented a good friend and colleague that the FTB went after and from what I have heard about the DOJ, I would much prefer dealing with the gun grabbers.

Just how does the use of a gift letter get around, if 32000 applies, the fact that it covers a person in this state who "gives" an off roster handgun? A lot depends on when the transaction occurs. If not until the handgun is delivered at the end of DROSS, did the family member make the gift? Were they to be considered a person in this state? I think it a stretch but not more of a stretch if you consider them a person making a sale in this state. They simply are not persons in this state.
I think it's even messier - or clearer, if you think so - than that:
Quote:

32110.

Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to any of the following:

(a) The sale, loan, or transfer of any firearm pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050) of Division 6 in order to comply with Section 27545.

(b) The sale, loan, or transfer of any firearm that is exempt from the provisions of Section 27545 pursuant to any applicable exemption contained in Article 2 (commencing with Section 27600) or Article 6 (commencing with Section 27850) of Chapter 4 of Division 6, if the sale, loan, or transfer complies with the requirements of that applicable exemption to Section 27545.
Intrafamilial is an exemption to 27545 - you already brought up 27875.

So maybe a gift letter is never needed? I dunno.
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  #132  
Old 08-21-2020, 7:20 AM
Saym14 Saym14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
To represent it as such is what is called fraud. The guys on the FFL board would know better, but I believe if what you claim was paid is unbelievable they are to collect a use fee for the value of the gun. Since this is a known intrafamily transaction, the FTF may be unwilling to accept a unbelievably low appraisal. I don't think they would quibble over a sale 20% below maket. But not 100% should they discover there was some money exchanged.
Who said to represent it that way. I am saying what if it is the fact. Talking about a gift, nothing to do with taxes or fees. Scenario-I buy a nice new 1911 for $1199 and I transfer it to my son in CA and he pays me $800 for it. The gift is worth $399
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  #133  
Old 10-16-2020, 9:38 AM
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Default Sham transaction to circumvent 27545

What of Penal Code sections 27515 and 27520?
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  #134  
Old 10-16-2020, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
Who said to represent it that way. I am saying what if it is the fact. Talking about a gift, nothing to do with taxes or fees. Scenario-I buy a nice new 1911 for $1199 and I transfer it to my son in CA and he pays me $800 for it. The gift is worth $399
If you provide a letter to the FFL saying it is a gift you are looking at being charged with state tax fraud violations. Possibly not if your letter says that you are selling it to your son for $800.

However, should you buy it and list yourself as the purchaser on the 4473 you made a straw purchase since the weapon was not purchased as a gift, but partly with your money and with his.

Of course if when you purchased it you intended not to charge anything for it and make it a complete gift, but later decided to charge your son something, I suppose it wouldn't be a straw purchase - if a jury was to believe you.
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  #135  
Old 10-16-2020, 3:49 PM
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Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
^^^ Complete fud.She must deliver or ship to ffl here. You cannot take possession till dros done here. Felony for both of you under federal law. Name the ffls that advised you felony is OK.. You are correct in the process involved.
does anyone know of an FFL in SoCal that will do one of these transfers
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Old 06-23-2022, 1:23 PM
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Has anyone had experience with FFLs in other states insisting they must sell a CA-compliant SKU to the interstate intra-familial transferor (e.g., the father gifting an exempt handgun to his son in CA), due to the magazine capacity of the firearm SKU? As I understand it, the out-of-state origin FFL has no part in the process of the interstate intra-familial transfer, and it is the responsibility of the transferor to remove any "high" capacity magazines that would not be consider legal to transfer into CA.

I haven't been able to find any "hard" legal language to back this up.

(Note: posting in this thread as it's the "official" redirect despite it being quite old, for the sake of avoiding clutter.)

~Belisarus
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  #137  
Old 06-23-2022, 1:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
Has anyone had experience with FFLs in other states insisting they must sell a CA-compliant SKU to the interstate intra-familial transferor (e.g., the father gifting an exempt handgun to his son in CA), due to the magazine capacity of the firearm SKU? As I understand it, the out-of-state origin FFL has no part in the process of the interstate intra-familial transfer, and it is the responsibility of the transferor to remove any "high" capacity magazines that would not be consider legal to transfer into CA.

I haven't been able to find any "hard" legal language to back this up.

(Note: posting in this thread as it's the "official" redirect despite it being quite old, for the sake of avoiding clutter.)

~Belisarus
If you are asking them to ship the firearm to a California FFL that might be an issue since they cannot import high….sorry normal capacity magazines. But if you buy the firearm out of state and drive it to California or ship it to California yourself than the selling FFL has nothing to do with it.
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Old 06-23-2022, 4:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
If you are asking them to ship the firearm to a California FFL that might be an issue since they cannot import high….sorry normal capacity magazines. But if you buy the firearm out of state and drive it to California or ship it to California yourself than the selling FFL has nothing to do with it.
I think your main problem is that the receiving CA FFL doesn't understand or want to do the intra-familiar, interstate transaction. Find one that understands. You may want to go onto the Calguns FFL board, tell them the area the son is in and ask for the name of a FFL who understands these types of transactions. Contact that FFL, and explain the issue with the Dad's out of state FFL. Also settle on the CA FFL's fee, which is negotiable.

I suspect that part of the problem may be that Dad's FFL is treating this as though it is selling to the son. My guess is the sale has to be completed to the Father at the out of state FFL's place of business and after the Father takes possession even for a second, Father removes the magazine and returns it to that FFL to ship it for him to the CA FFL for delivery to the son. He will probably have to include a gift letter as well as follow any other instruction of the CA FFL.

This removal of the magazie may raise a minor issue as one will be needed at the time of delivery to the son for the safety demonstration.
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  #139  
Old 01-03-2023, 7:03 AM
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My father passed away in AZ. I live in CA.

If found this:
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...20&postcount=4

Quote:
You may INHERIT guns and bring them in from out of state - but ONLY if the deceased and the inheritor are related as grandparent/parent/child;
Doesn't sound like I need to deal with FFL. I was told I would just need to do the Intra-Familial Firearm Transaction form. I do have my FSC.

Last edited by RikersBeard; 01-03-2023 at 7:10 AM..
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  #140  
Old 01-03-2023, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RikersBeard View Post
My father passed away in AZ. I live in CA.

If found this:
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...20&postcount=4



Doesn't sound like I need to deal with FFL. I was told I would just need to do the Intra-Familial Firearm Transaction form. I do have my FSC.
Your question has been asked and answered here, why revive another dead thread?
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1837112
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Old 01-04-2023, 6:28 AM
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Your question has been asked and answered here, why revive another dead thread?
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1837112
Sorry. My mistake.
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  #142  
Old 04-01-2024, 3:48 PM
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It?s April 2024. What is the current procedure? Wife is an AZ resident, she wants to give her mom a pistol. Her mom is a CA resident.

Is OPLAW form still the only thing to do, or is it now a P2P with her mom needing to get an FSC first?

Can she bring the pistol with her on her next trip to CA and go with her mom to an FFL or does it require her to ship from an AZ FFL to a CA FFL?

Thank you and sorry, it?s hard to keep up with the law anymore.
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Old 04-01-2024, 4:52 PM
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Originally Posted by PogoJack View Post
It's April 2024. What is the current procedure? Wife is an AZ resident, she wants to give her mom a pistol. Her mom is a CA resident.

Is OPLAW form still the only thing to do, or is it now a P2P with her mom needing to get an FSC first?

Can she bring the pistol with her on her next trip to CA and go with her mom to an FFL or does it require her to ship from an AZ FFL to a CA FFL?

Thank you and sorry, it's hard to keep up with the law anymore.
Since 1968, Federal laws have prohibited the transfer of firearms between residents of different States without the use of a FFL. [18 USC 922(a)(3),(5)]

There is no intra-familial or gift exemption to the Federal laws.

There is a bequeath exemption to the Federal laws, but it requires the transferor to be deceased and the transferee to be named in the deceased's will as being the recipient of the firearms. [18 USC 922(a)(3)(A),(5)(A)]

Failure to utilize a FFL equates to a Federal felony for the transferor and for the transferee. [18 USC 924(a)(1)(D)]

In order to be legal under Federal laws...

Because the recipient is a CA resident, the transfer must be done through a CA FFL dealer.

Out-of-state intra-familial gift transfers of handguns are an exemption that allows a CA FFL dealer to transfer a non-exempt off-Roster CA legal handgun to a CA resident. [PC 32110(b)]

Not all CA FFL dealers know about or are willing to conduct an out-of-state intra-familial gift transfer of an off-Roster CA legal handgun.

Therefore...

1. The CA resident mother must find a CA FFL dealer that knows about and is willing to conduct an out-of-state intra-familial gift transfer of an off-Roster CA legal handgun.
2. The AZ resident daughter then delivers the CA legal handgun to that CA FFL dealer.
3. That CA FFL dealer then transfers (4473/DROS/10 day wait/1 in 30 day wait) the firearm to the CA resident mother; who needs to have a valid CA REAL DL/ID or valid CA FLA DL/ID with valid additional documentation, valid FSC or exemption to FSC, and valid proof of residence.

Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer for the transfer means the AZ resident daughter and CA resident mother will be committing Federal felonies.
In addition, if the transfer is done without the use of a CA FFL dealer and a report is submitted to CA DOJ, then all that report does is document the violations of Federal laws making prosecution easier for the Feds.
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Last edited by Quiet; 04-01-2024 at 5:12 PM..
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  #144  
Old 04-02-2024, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Since 1968, Federal laws have prohibited the transfer of firearms between residents of different States without the use of a FFL. [18 USC 922(a)(3),(5)]

There is no intra-familial or gift exemption to the Federal laws.

There is a bequeath exemption to the Federal laws, but it requires the transferor to be deceased and the transferee to be named in the deceased's will as being the recipient of the firearms. [18 USC 922(a)(3)(A),(5)(A)]

Failure to utilize a FFL equates to a Federal felony for the transferor and for the transferee. [18 USC 924(a)(1)(D)]

In order to be legal under Federal laws...

Because the recipient is a CA resident, the transfer must be done through a CA FFL dealer.

Out-of-state intra-familial gift transfers of handguns are an exemption that allows a CA FFL dealer to transfer a non-exempt off-Roster CA legal handgun to a CA resident. [PC 32110(b)]

Not all CA FFL dealers know about or are willing to conduct an out-of-state intra-familial gift transfer of an off-Roster CA legal handgun.

Therefore...

1. The CA resident mother must find a CA FFL dealer that knows about and is willing to conduct an out-of-state intra-familial gift transfer of an off-Roster CA legal handgun.
2. The AZ resident daughter then delivers the CA legal handgun to that CA FFL dealer.
3. That CA FFL dealer then transfers (4473/DROS/10 day wait/1 in 30 day wait) the firearm to the CA resident mother; who needs to have a valid CA REAL DL/ID or valid CA FLA DL/ID with valid additional documentation, valid FSC or exemption to FSC, and valid proof of residence.

Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer for the transfer means the AZ resident daughter and CA resident mother will be committing Federal felonies.
In addition, if the transfer is done without the use of a CA FFL dealer and a report is submitted to CA DOJ, then all that report does is document the violations of Federal laws making prosecution easier for the Feds.

Thank you, that is concise and pretty easy to follow. In step #2, you mention a CA legal gun. What does that mean in the context of an off-roster pistol? Does it have to have a drop safety or a magazine disconnect, etc?
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  #145  
Old 04-02-2024, 2:56 PM
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Thank you, that is concise and pretty easy to follow. In step #2, you mention a CA legal gun. What does that mean in the context of an off-roster pistol? Does it have to have a drop safety or a magazine disconnect, etc?
CA legal firearm = firearm that does not violate CA assault weapons laws, CA destructive device laws, CA generally prohibited weapons laws, and CA machine gun laws.

CA unsafe handgun laws does not affect the legality of a handgun in CA and only restricts what a CA FFL dealer can legally transfer.
^An out-of-state intra-familial gift transfer is an exemption to CA unsafe handgun laws that allows a CA FFL dealer to transfer CA legal off-Roster handguns.

So, in the context of step #2, "CA legal handgun" means a handgun that does not violate CA assault weapons laws (e.g. semi-auto pistol without a fixed magazine that has a threaded barrel and semi-auto pistol without a fixed magazine that accepts magazines outside of its grip) [PC 30510(b) and 30515(a)(4),(5)] or CA generally prohibited weapons laws (e.g. handgun that shoots shotgun shells) [PC 16590].




Penal Code 30510
As used in this chapter and in Sections 16780, 17000, and 27555, "assault weapon" means the following designated semiautomatic firearms:
(b) All of the following specified pistols:
(1) UZI.
(2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.
(3) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M-11.
(C) Advance Armament Inc. M-11.
(D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11.
(4) Intratec TEC-9.
(5) Sites Spectre.
(6) Sterling MK-7.
(7) Calico M-950.
(8) Bushmaster Pistol.
(d) Any firearm declared to be an assault weapon by the court pursuant to former Section 12276.5, as it read in Section 3 of Chapter 19 of the Statutes of 1989, Section 1 of Chapter 874 of the Statutes of 1990, or Section 3 of Chapter 954 of the Statutes of 1991, which is specified as an assault weapon in a list promulgated pursuant to former Section 12276.5, as it read in Section 3 of Chapter 954 of the Statutes of 1991.
(e) This section is declaratory of existing law and a clarification of the law and the Legislature?s intent which bans the weapons enumerated in this section, the weapons included in the list promulgated by the Attorney General pursuant to former Section 12276.5, as it read in Section 3 of Chapter 954 of the Statutes of 1991, and any other models that are only variations of those weapons with minor differences, regardless of the manufacturer. The Legislature has defined assault weapons as the types, series, and models listed in this section because it was the most effective way to identify and restrict a specific class of semiautomatic weapons.

Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also means any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer?s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

Penal Code 16590
As used in this part, "generally prohibited weapon" means any of the following:
(f) A camouflaging firearm container, as prohibited by Section 24310.
(g) A cane gun, as prohibited by Section 24410.
(k) A firearm that is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, as prohibited by Section 24510.
(l) A large-capacity magazine, as prohibited by Section 32310.
(q) A multiburst trigger activator, as prohibited by Section 32900.
(s) A short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, as prohibited by Section 33215.
(u) An unconventional pistol, as prohibited by Section 31500.
(v) An undetectable firearm, as prohibited by Section 24610.
(w) A wallet gun, as prohibited by Section 24710.
(y) A zip gun, as prohibited by Section 33600.
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Last edited by Quiet; 04-02-2024 at 3:05 PM..
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