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  #1  
Old 01-09-2019, 11:37 PM
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Default Question for LEO in CA

I recently spoke to an officer in CA that said he, and other officers, are not allowed to practice shooting anywhere outside of two areas 1) Police ranges or 2) Those few select places policy agencies have designated are safe for police to shoot, irregardless of whether they are on OR off duty. That seems strange. That means police can't shoot at public ranges, they can't shoot on private property, they can't shoot on BLM land, etc...

What about training courses? What if they wanted to train with Travis Haley or John Lovell? What if it's family tradition to camp out at BLM land and shoot with the family? What if you have a friend or family, who is not a LEO, whom you like to shoot with regularly at gun ranges? Are all of these off limits? Is if different for different agencies? What are people's experiences with this?

For respect and privacy reasons I'm not going to state the city in which I spoke to this officer.

Thank you!
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:55 PM
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I think itís FUD. One of my close friends is an LEO. I shoot with him all the time.
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2019, 12:07 AM
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Maybe he was talking about his service firearm.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:09 AM
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Maybe he meant while in uniform? I shoot with LEO all the time at all sorts of ranges (including one officer's backyard range)
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:10 AM
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I see lots of ranges offer membership discounts for law enforcement, so something must be not quite accurate.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DentonandSasquatchShow View Post
Maybe he was talking about his service firearm.


Iíve shot my friendís service pistol on multiple occasions.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceKnight366 View Post
I recently spoke to an officer in CA that said he, and other officers, are not allowed to practice shooting anywhere outside of two areas 1) Police ranges or 2) Those few select places policy agencies have designated are safe for police to shoot, irregardless of whether they are on OR off duty. That seems strange. That means police can't shoot at public ranges, they can't shoot on private property, they can't shoot on BLM land, etc...

What about training courses? What if they wanted to train with Travis Haley or John Lovell? What if it's family tradition to camp out at BLM land and shoot with the family? What if you have a friend or family, who is not a LEO, whom you like to shoot with regularly at gun ranges? Are all of these off limits? Is if different for different agencies? What are people's experiences with this?

For respect and privacy reasons I'm not going to state the city in which I spoke to this officer.

Thank you!
Not totally far fetched. There MAY be a department with such a policy. That being said it is not a common policy I have ever heard.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by badfish71 View Post
Not totally far fetched. There MAY be a department with such a policy. That being said it is not a common policy I have ever heard.


This

And dude thatís a lot of what ifís how listing the agency he works for so it can be zeroíed in?
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Old 01-10-2019, 1:34 AM
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I think the most likely explanation is he was just making excuses not to shoot with the op.
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Old 01-10-2019, 1:35 AM
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Originally Posted by phroggunner View Post
I think the most likely explanation is he was just making excuses not to shoot with the op.


Hahaha could be.
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2019, 7:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceKnight366 View Post
I recently spoke to an officer in CA that said he, and other officers, are not allowed to practice shooting anywhere outside of two areas 1) Police ranges or 2) Those few select places policy agencies have designated are safe for police to shoot, irregardless of whether they are on OR off duty. That seems strange. That means police can't shoot at public ranges, they can't shoot on private property, they can't shoot on BLM land, etc...

What about training courses? What if they wanted to train with Travis Haley or John Lovell? What if it's family tradition to camp out at BLM land and shoot with the family? What if you have a friend or family, who is not a LEO, whom you like to shoot with regularly at gun ranges? Are all of these off limits? Is if different for different agencies? What are people's experiences with this?

For respect and privacy reasons I'm not going to state the city in which I spoke to this officer.

Thank you!

Highly unlikely.. what you ran into is a common type of LEO who only practices the couple times a year when he has to qualify...

Departments only use certain ranges for "official" training / qualifying.
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Old 01-10-2019, 7:59 AM
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Sounds like an officer with no motivation to shoot or practice beyond what is required by department standards.

Most departments will provide ammo for the officer if they are shooting the department gun. My prior department required us to carry our duty and only the duty gun. They provided holsters for however you wanted to carry the gun.

Only requirement was the duty gun.

You really cannot restrict an officer from seeking out additional training for the betterment of himself and perhaps the department.

Sorry but you got fed a line of crap.
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  #13  
Old 01-10-2019, 8:06 AM
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Interesting thing is most leo Iíve met in my lifetime arenít really that into guns, only out of necessity
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Old 01-10-2019, 8:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
Interesting thing is most leo Iíve met in my lifetime arenít really that into guns, only out of necessity
Yup.. just another tool on the belt...
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Old 01-10-2019, 8:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceKnight366 View Post
I recently spoke to an officer in CA that said he, and other officers, are not allowed to practice shooting anywhere outside of two areas 1) Police ranges or 2) Those few select places policy agencies have designated are safe for police to shoot, irregardless of whether they are on OR off duty. That seems strange. That means police can't shoot at public ranges, they can't shoot on private property, they can't shoot on BLM land, etc...

What about training courses? What if they wanted to train with Travis Haley or John Lovell? What if it's family tradition to camp out at BLM land and shoot with the family? What if you have a friend or family, who is not a LEO, whom you like to shoot with regularly at gun ranges? Are all of these off limits? Is if different for different agencies? What are people's experiences with this?

For respect and privacy reasons I'm not going to state the city in which I spoke to this officer.

Thank you!
I have 17 years on the job and can tell you that is 100% false. On duty in uniform yes we can only shoot at a department range for qualification/training. But off duty we can shoot any place it is legal to do so.
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Old 01-10-2019, 8:35 AM
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Could be an agency issue. Had no issue with that during my time on the job.
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Old 01-10-2019, 8:44 AM
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Quote:
Interesting thing is most leo I’ve met in my lifetime aren’t really that into guns, only out of necessity
Quote:
Yup.. just another tool on the belt...

Depends on who you talk to. I rub elbows with a few active and retired municipal motor cops at work; they assist with traffic control. As a result of one two-year acquaintance where it was discovered we also had mutual friends in the area and from the old car hobby, I was invited to a First Annual Range Day last week and had a lot of fun with these guys. Of 12 shooters that showed up at one of the ranges rented at Burro, 8 were LEOs with two of these retired.

The 4 civilians among us, including myself, benefitted from their humor, their range discipline, their instruction, and at after lunch, an informal course of fire as a competition for we non-LEO, which everyone eventually wanted a piece of. Good times! And of course, the fellow that invited me was the one who bested all others with top score, partly because he was one of the two actual police range instructors there, and the fact that they're "gun guys".
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Old 01-10-2019, 8:55 AM
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Thanks for all your feedback. I'll try to answer some questions to clarify things.

This officer was not talking about his service firearm, but any and all personal firearms as well (additionally, as an officer of this city it was required that all of his personal firearms be made known to the department. Aka, the department wanted to know what personal firearms he owns).

This officer was not talking about shooting in uniform, but any shooting on OR off duty.

He was not making excuses to skirt his personal training nor to training with me. That was not the context of this discussion.

His stated reasons had to do with liability and to the extent the city owns you once employed. The idea was that once you are employed with the city your Constitutional rights are tapered on OR off duty. You cannot have strong positions on controversial topics on OR off duty as that could be a liability to doing your job objectively (or at least in the way others perceive you doing your job objectively). You cannot shoot at any of the places listed on OR off as your safety, and the others you are shooting with, are a liability. You have no right to staying silent or having a lawyer present during an official police debriefing but any information divulged cannot be used in a criminal proceeding against you. etc, etc...

Is any of this similar to how other departments operate?
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Old 01-10-2019, 8:59 AM
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I have not heard of any restrictions like OP mentioned. But LEO's in my area are restricted on when and where they can use their issued duty ammo.
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Old 01-10-2019, 9:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceKnight366 View Post
Thanks for all your feedback. I'll try to answer some questions to clarify things.

This officer was not talking about his service firearm, but any and all personal firearms as well (additionally, as an officer of this city it was required that all of his personal firearms be made known to the department. Aka, the department wanted to know what personal firearms he owns).

This officer was not talking about shooting in uniform, but any shooting on OR off duty.

He was not making excuses to skirt his personal training nor to training with me. That was not the context of this discussion.

His stated reasons had to do with liability and to the extent the city owns you once employed. The idea was that once you are employed with the city your Constitutional rights are tapered on OR off duty. You cannot have strong positions on controversial topics on OR off duty as that could be a liability to doing your job objectively (or at least in the way others perceive you doing your job objectively). You cannot shoot at any of the places listed on OR off as your safety, and the others you are shooting with, are a liability. You have no right to staying silent or having a lawyer present during an official police debriefing but any information divulged cannot be used in a criminal proceeding against you. etc, etc...

Is any of this similar to how other departments operate?


Haha sorry to tell you, he just didnít want to go shooting with you.
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Old 01-10-2019, 9:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
Interesting thing is most leo Iíve met in my lifetime arenít really that into guns, only out of necessity


My friend LEO is an example of this. He was never into guns. He saw it as a tool. He wouldnít even go shooting with me for the longest time. When he finally did, I brought out all my toys and now he loves shooting.
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Old 01-10-2019, 9:07 AM
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You find a lot of officers in classes..... curious what department would prohibit an officer from getting better.

Some officers are great shots and work to get better.

Some take 2-4 times to qualify and need more training.


I’m also thinking about several private classes I have taken with LEO as instructors
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Old 01-10-2019, 9:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceKnight366 View Post
Thanks for all your feedback. I'll try to answer some questions to clarify things.

This officer was not talking about his service firearm, but any and all personal firearms as well (additionally, as an officer of this city it was required that all of his personal firearms be made known to the department. Aka, the department wanted to know what personal firearms he owns).

This officer was not talking about shooting in uniform, but any shooting on OR off duty.

He was not making excuses to skirt his personal training nor to training with me. That was not the context of this discussion.

His stated reasons had to do with liability and to the extent the city owns you once employed. The idea was that once you are employed with the city your Constitutional rights are tapered on OR off duty. You cannot have strong positions on controversial topics on OR off duty as that could be a liability to doing your job objectively (or at least in the way others perceive you doing your job objectively). You cannot shoot at any of the places listed on OR off as your safety, and the others you are shooting with, are a liability. You have no right to staying silent or having a lawyer present during an official police debriefing but any information divulged cannot be used in a criminal proceeding against you. etc, etc...

Is any of this similar to how other departments operate?
That is complete and total BS. While it is 100% true that someone can be disciplined for off duty antic's saying that your Constitutional Right's are tapered is the biggest crock of s*%^ I've ever heard. The right to an attorney is absolute, the job does not change that.
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Old 01-10-2019, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phroggunner View Post
I think the most likely explanation is he was just making excuses not to shoot with the op.
^^^THIS^^^
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Old 01-10-2019, 9:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
Interesting thing is most leo Iíve met in my lifetime arenít really that into guns, only out of necessity
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
Yup.. just another tool on the belt...
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Originally Posted by Yodaman View Post
Haha sorry to tell you, he just didnít want to go shooting with you.



When I was young, most cops were gun guys or, at the very least, proficient in their use.


When I worked in the gun industry, decades ago, we began to see cops who viewed their weapons as a necessary evil that they only used to qualify with as required.


Often their wives/girlfriends were as good or better shots.




While it is possible that some liberal, risk averse agency places these silly restrictions on their officers, I have never heard this from any of LEO's I know.


I would tend to believe, for whatever reason, the officer didn't want to shoot with/in front of you...
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Old 01-10-2019, 9:20 AM
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Not in our neck of the woods - sounds like a specific policy for his agency.
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Old 01-10-2019, 9:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceKnight366 View Post
Thanks for all your feedback. I'll try to answer some questions to clarify things.

This officer was not talking about his service firearm, but any and all personal firearms as well (additionally, as an officer of this city it was required that all of his personal firearms be made known to the department. Aka, the department wanted to know what personal firearms he owns).

This officer was not talking about shooting in uniform, but any shooting on OR off duty.

He was not making excuses to skirt his personal training nor to training with me. That was not the context of this discussion.

His stated reasons had to do with liability and to the extent the city owns you once employed. The idea was that once you are employed with the city your Constitutional rights are tapered on OR off duty. You cannot have strong positions on controversial topics on OR off duty as that could be a liability to doing your job objectively (or at least in the way others perceive you doing your job objectively). You cannot shoot at any of the places listed on OR off as your safety, and the others you are shooting with, are a liability. You have no right to staying silent or having a lawyer present during an official police debriefing but any information divulged cannot be used in a criminal proceeding against you. etc, etc...

Is any of this similar to how other departments operate?
Never heard anything even close to any of this. The only guns my department knows I own are the guns I am qualified to use on duty. They donít know about nor should they know about my 6.5 long range rifle or my family handed down 1911.

On duty I am not allowed to be political. But off duty I am free to make statements or share my veiws. It is not smart to do so however as if I get involved in a shooting the media will dig up anything I ever posted in order to paint a picture. Just be smart stay quiet and donít be an a**

If he told you he can not have access to lawyer during investigations then he is 100% lying. He has to be messing with you or he is a jaded/miserable type person. The department he works for is violating so many laws/rights.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:14 AM
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OP, tell your friend to stop telling tall tales.
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Old 01-10-2019, 3:59 PM
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Probably a department thing, if at all, I've never heard of any restrictions like that.
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Old 01-10-2019, 4:10 PM
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OP...your friend might not really be a cop...have you seen him in uniform?
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Old 01-10-2019, 4:22 PM
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Good luck for a department to prohibit legal off duty actions.

If true. it would be a great law suit for violating the Constitutional rights of the officer.
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Old 01-10-2019, 4:28 PM
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FUD to me. No way any department where you need a post cert. can do that. Big FKEM. No hunting, cannot take the kids out to shoot.Absolute BS. Where does the idjit work?
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Old 01-10-2019, 4:50 PM
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I know cops don't like their pictures taken when they are shooting. LOL Was shooting a Match at Richmond. I friend of mine was taking pictures. The cops were on another bay training. They had an absolute schit fit when they saw the camera.

But every match I've ever shot has probably got about 10% LEO's shooting.
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Old 01-10-2019, 6:04 PM
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Perhaps you could name the city or department and someone here can verify.

I am aware of departments with more restrictive policies, but this is far beyond even the most strict of policies; especially the waiver of constitutional protections. The CA statute even has the Government Code section outlying protections to public safety.
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Old 01-10-2019, 6:17 PM
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My brother in law is a LEO and I’ve been shooting with him at a public range. I’ve taken three handgun classes and one shotgun class, and at least 75% of the students in every class were LEO.
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Old 01-10-2019, 6:22 PM
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Name the department OP....so we all can chime in.
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Old 01-10-2019, 8:07 PM
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I know some LE department uses the Lion’s Club range in Lucerne. Got shut out of shooting pistols one Saturday.
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Old 01-10-2019, 9:59 PM
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I've seen El Segundo LEOs shooting at Angeles shooting range.
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Old 01-11-2019, 1:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTFlyer View Post
OP...your friend might not really be a cop...have you seen him in uniform?
now i'm curious
OP please follow up
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  #40  
Old 01-11-2019, 3:29 AM
Pajamajoe Pajamajoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
Interesting thing is most leo Iíve met in my lifetime arenít really that into guns, only out of necessity
Thats true. When I was a Border Patrol agent I had zero interest in owning any private guns, now I own several firearms.
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