Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Ammo and Reloading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-15-2022, 10:19 PM
Greg Curci Greg Curci is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 26
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default .223 not sizing right

I'm having an issue sizing my brass. First of I'm using RCBS small base die in a Hornady Lock n load AP. I run the die until it touches the shellplate and turn another 1/4 turn. All my brass is mix headstamp. While I'm sizing about 75% will size correctly and fit into my cartridge gauge (hornady .223 gauge). I size and check each case before I set primers. The cases that haven't sized properly I put to the side and when I try to resize them by turning the die another 1/2 turn they still won't fit into the cartridge gauge. Has anyone come across this? Am I doing something wrong with my set up?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-15-2022, 10:47 PM
jsanch03 jsanch03 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 509
iTrader: 42 / 100%
Default

After your 1/4 turn is the bottom of your sizing die touching or coming close to the shell plate? When I run the resizing die, similar to yours the bottom portion of the die is maybe about a card’s thickness away from touching the indent of the shellplate. This is on a Dillon xl650
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-15-2022, 11:17 PM
JagerDog's Avatar
JagerDog JagerDog is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: South SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,897
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Where is it hanging up in the case gauge?
__________________
You know it's cold outside when the socialists have their hands in their own pockets



#Blackolivesmatter
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-15-2022, 11:58 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 53,214
iTrader: 112 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Curci View Post
I'm having an issue sizing my brass. First of I'm using RCBS small base die in a Hornady Lock n load AP. I run the die until it touches the shellplate and turn another 1/4 turn. All my brass is mix headstamp. While I'm sizing about 75% will size correctly and fit into my cartridge gauge (hornady .223 gauge). I size and check each case before I set primers. The cases that haven't sized properly I put to the side and when I try to resize them by turning the die another 1/2 turn they still won't fit into the cartridge gauge. Has anyone come across this? Am I doing something wrong with my set up?
From your description of what you are doing, it sounds like you don't have a method to actually MEASURE the effect of the sizing.
A gauge is a go/no-go check but it does not show you where you actually ARE on shoulder length.
If you had an actual measurement to work from, you would know which way you need to adjust the die.

1/4 turn and 1/2 turn are MASSIVE adjustments.

You should be adjusting around 0.002" at a time when adjusting the die.
0.002" is 1/28 of a turn.

The easiest way to have a SCALE is to make 1mm spaced hash marks on some masking tape and wrap the tape around the 7/8" threaded portion of the die.
Each 1mm hash mark will give you 0.001" of adjustment.
1/4 turn is 0.018".
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-16-2022, 12:00 AM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 53,214
iTrader: 112 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
Where is it hanging up in the case gauge?
My money is on the gauge not being relieved to clear dinged up rims so cases with pull marks on the rim hang up and people that don't realize it's happening think the case is not fitting some other part of the gauge.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-16-2022, 12:22 AM
JagerDog's Avatar
JagerDog JagerDog is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: South SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,897
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
From your description of what you are doing, it sounds like you don't have a method to actually MEASURE the effect of the sizing.
A gauge is a go/no-go check but it does not show you where you actually ARE on shoulder length.
If you had an actual measurement to work from, you would know which way you need to adjust the die.

1/4 turn and 1/2 turn are MASSIVE adjustments.

You should be adjusting around 0.002" at a time when adjusting the die.
0.002" is 1/28 of a turn.

The easiest way to have a SCALE is to make 1mm spaced hash marks on some masking tape and wrap the tape around the 7/8" threaded portion of the die.
Each 1mm hash mark will give you 0.001" of adjustment.
1/4 turn is 0.018".
What Randall is referring to is how far you move the shoulder back. That’s done in small increments. The body is resized basically the same regardless of the 1/4 vs 1/2 turn.
__________________
You know it's cold outside when the socialists have their hands in their own pockets



#Blackolivesmatter
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-16-2022, 1:15 AM
sigstroker sigstroker is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: not in CA
Posts: 14,032
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

I do all my full length resizing on a Rock Chucker.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-16-2022, 1:30 AM
Greg Curci Greg Curci is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 26
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Thank you for all the responses, it's my first batch of rifle reloads, please forgive me if I'm a little ignorant with my set up.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-16-2022, 3:22 AM
pacrat pacrat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Socialist Republic of SoCal
Posts: 9,049
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Curci View Post
Thank you for all the responses, it's my first batch of rifle reloads, please forgive me if I'm a little ignorant with my set up.
Have you "chamber checked" a few of those pesky cases that were case gage rejects?

If not. Do so before screwing around with anything else. Since you are already using a SB-FL sizer. And hard bumping the shell plate to the die base. Most likely outcome, is that they fit your rifle just fine.

In which case, drop the case gage in a drawer and immediately forget where you lost it.

In extremely rare circumstances. Manufacturer will cut a die overly deep. By extremely rare, I'm guestamating one in every couple hundred thousand.

If that's the situation. The cases won't fit the rifle either.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-16-2022, 4:32 AM
Greg Curci Greg Curci is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 26
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Have you "chamber checked" a few of those pesky cases that were case gage rejects?

If not. Do so before screwing around with anything else. Since you are already using a SB-FL sizer. And hard bumping the shell plate to the die base. Most likely outcome, is that they fit your rifle just fine.

In which case, drop the case gage in a drawer and immediately forget where you lost it.

In extremely rare circumstances. Manufacturer will cut a die overly deep. By extremely rare, I'm guestamating one in every couple hundred thousand.

If that's the situation. The cases won't fit the rifle either.
I put together a few dummy rounds with the cases that wouldn't fit the gauge, the bolt wouldn't get all the way into battery and took quite a bit of force to get the charging handle and bold back to get it to eject the round.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-16-2022, 4:37 AM
tabascoz28's Avatar
tabascoz28 tabascoz28 is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 3,003
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

I'm learning the hard way myself but it seems that a progressive press lacks the camming action of rock chucker. Once all the other dies are putting resistance on the system it takes even more force to get that extra .002 inches down. I'm sure the Hornady is built better than my Lee Breach Lock Pro.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-16-2022, 5:38 AM
cocorador's Avatar
cocorador cocorador is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Livermore
Posts: 399
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Check out the precision mic from RCBS. I have one for every rifle caliber I own. It helps me set up my dies for sizing as well as bullet seating. Maybe there is a video on youtube.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-16-2022, 7:30 AM
baih777 baih777 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 5,334
iTrader: 106 / 100%
Default

Why are you using a small base die ?
its only needed if your brass was military or police range brass shot out of fully auto rifle. use a regular 223 die if its your own once fired brass.

all the brass that does not size correctly. is it all the same head stamp ?

when using that Hornady guage. the brass that does not fit the guage. look at the other end of the guage and see if the brass is bottoming out in the guage. since the brass has not been trimmed yet. it may be too long. the Hornady guage also guages the length of the brass at the same time.
if this is the problem. then drill out the guage so that it will let the long untrimmed brass seat to check the headspace.

Midway has free shipping offer right now.
buy a Lyman or Dillon 223 guage.
do you have the Lee decapper die ? buy a couple of spare decapping shafts at the same time.
if you need to buy another regular die. just buy the Lee 223 FL die. it has holes drilled into the neck to let the excess lube push out and you wont dent any brass. buy a spare decapping shaft at the same time.
on your Hornady shellplate. keep a extra spring on hand.

there is nothing wrong with your press. i do 2 gallon buckets of 223 at a time with my Hornady.
__________________
Been gone too long. It's been 15 to 20 years since i had to shelf my guns. Those early years sucked.
I really miss the good old Pomona Gun Shows.
I'm Back.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-16-2022, 7:30 AM
rsrocket1 rsrocket1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sacramento no more
Posts: 2,497
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Take a resized case that won't fit in the case gauge and color it completely with a magic marker or Sharpie including the rim. Then try to fit it into the case gauge again. Use a rod to push it back out if it's stuck. Look for where the ink rubbed off and you'll know where it's out of spec.

As Randall said, many times, the rims are banged up and are the only parts that won't fit in the gauge but if your bolt won't close then it might be that the very bottom of the head is still expanded too much and your dies aren't able to size them completely. A single stage press might help. I have a LnL AP also but I resize and prime on a single stage press or SS press and hand primer. I only use the LnL to drop powder and seat the bullet.

The LnL AP will cam over slightly but don't adjust it to do so, you are only asking for trouble with 5 stations.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-16-2022, 3:06 PM
tabascoz28's Avatar
tabascoz28 tabascoz28 is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 3,003
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

I like that the AP will cam, why not set it up for rifles? All the other dies would just float above and adjust as needed befire mass producing.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-16-2022, 5:29 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 53,214
iTrader: 112 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tabascoz28 View Post
I like that the AP will cam, why not set it up for rifles? All the other dies would just float above and adjust as needed befire mass producing.
If you ever setup a progressive press to cam over, you need to put 2 more dies across the shellplate also against the shellplate as well to support the shellplate platform from being bent if you are camming the press over with only 1 die hard against the shellplate.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-16-2022, 6:06 PM
NapalmCheese's Avatar
NapalmCheese NapalmCheese is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Jose
Posts: 5,471
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Are you lubing the inside of the case necks?
__________________
Calguns.net, where everyone responding to your post is a Navy Force Delta Recon 6 Sniperator.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-20-2022, 8:35 AM
divingin divingin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,067
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tabascoz28 View Post
I'm learning the hard way myself but it seems that a progressive press lacks the camming action of rock chucker. Once all the other dies are putting resistance on the system it takes even more force to get that extra .002 inches down. I'm sure the Hornady is built better than my Lee Breach Lock Pro.
Sounds like 2 issues: The actions performed by the other dies are stretching the press more, so you need more "down" on the sizing die to get to the same point when the press is doing several operations at once, vs having just a single piece of brass in the sizing station.

OP: you really need to ditch the die instructions and set up the sizing die to get the correct amount of base-shoulder reduction, rather than sizing the max amount. Your brass (and possibly your face) will thank you. Oversizing will lead to case head separations in as little as one to a few firings. "Correct amount" is generally .001-.002" for a bolt gun, and .002-.005" for a semi-auto. Much more than that is generally going to cause eventual problems.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-20-2022, 9:12 AM
JagerDog's Avatar
JagerDog JagerDog is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: South SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,897
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
Are you lubing the inside of the case necks?
Good thought. The internal sizing button can stretch the shoulder back out on extraction.
__________________
You know it's cold outside when the socialists have their hands in their own pockets



#Blackolivesmatter
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-20-2022, 10:20 AM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 53,214
iTrader: 112 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
Are you lubing the inside of the case necks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
Good thought. The internal sizing button can stretch the shoulder back out on extraction.
A side benefit of dry tumbling is that the walnut or corn media dust stays inside the necks and acts as a dry lube so that the neck expanding button does not stick to the case neck.

People who wet tumble run into many more problems with the cases sticking to the neck expander as the cases are TOO clean.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-20-2022, 2:34 PM
MarikinaMan MarikinaMan is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,883
iTrader: 28 / 100%
Default

The way I adjust a sizing die is I start as u did. Then I put the sized case into a case gauge. I will keep adjusting the die until five random cases go into the gauge and pass. Then I’ll lock the die in place.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-21-2022, 4:08 PM
smoothy8500's Avatar
smoothy8500 smoothy8500 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 3,234
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

I guess nobody checks their sizing against the chamber in question? Is the case gauge at SAAMI minimum or maximum? Are you bumping the shoulder .002" or .005"? Inquiring minds want to know....
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-21-2022, 4:15 PM
hambam105 hambam105 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,272
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default I never knew this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If you ever setup a progressive press to cam over, you need to put 2 more dies across the shellplate also against the shellplate as well to support the shellplate platform from being bent if you are camming the press over with only 1 die hard against the shellplate.

I've been reloading off a Dilion for years.
Never had a FL resizing issue with any caliber.

I suppose if you are like me and never read the instruction manual for the press you should hang around the guys that do.

Thanks Randal.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-21-2022, 5:14 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 53,214
iTrader: 112 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
I've been reloading off a Dilion for years.
Never had a FL resizing issue with any caliber.

I suppose if you are like me and never read the instruction manual for the press you should hang around the guys that do.

Thanks Randal.
Supporting the shellplate on a progressive while camming over is not in the manual.
I figured that out when I was setting up my 650 for decapping, lube, trim and neck expand.
I used the lube/decap and the Lyman M die to support the opposite side of the shellplate from the sizer/trimmer die.
Once I did that, I got much more consistent shoulder lengths.
A dial indicator showed me what was happening when the shellplate was not being backed up by those two dies opposite the sizer/trimmer.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-21-2022, 9:20 PM
stand125 stand125 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,362
iTrader: 109 / 100%
Default

Are you lubing the inside of the case neck? I have had necks that had a difficult time getting the expander ball out and it actually pulled the shoulder. I noticed accuracy improve once I picked a head stamp and stuck with it. Find a headstamp that resize and chambers and discard the others.
__________________
CALGUNS DICTIONARY "FLIER": when a shooter wants to turn a 1 inch group to a half inch group because he flinched.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-21-2022, 9:58 PM
kelvin232 kelvin232 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 814
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Cases not trimmed after sizing. Neck too long and hitting stop on case Guage. Trim cases.

Get calipers and confirm case OAL.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-21-2022, 9:58 PM
hambam105 hambam105 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,272
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default We all learn a bit different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If you ever setup a progressive press to cam over, you need to put 2 more dies across the shellplate also against the shellplate as well to support the shellplate platform from being bent if you are camming the press over with only 1 die hard against the shellplate.
I consider myself more a technician than a machinist or engineer because having that shell plate resting caddy-wompast atop the ram never crossed my mind.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-21-2022, 11:23 PM
JagerDog's Avatar
JagerDog JagerDog is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: South SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,897
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
I guess nobody checks their sizing against the chamber in question? Is the case gauge at SAAMI minimum or maximum? Are you bumping the shoulder .002" or .005"? Inquiring minds want to know....
Guessing the brass didn't come from his rifle. Appears to be AR platform. Sizing to spec rather than chamber isn't a bad way to go. Gauge should be toward min.
__________________
You know it's cold outside when the socialists have their hands in their own pockets



#Blackolivesmatter

Last edited by JagerDog; 01-22-2022 at 12:25 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-22-2022, 12:44 AM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 53,214
iTrader: 112 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
I consider myself more a technician than a machinist or engineer because having that shell plate resting caddy-wompast atop the ram never crossed my mind.
If you want to do some visual learning, setup a progressive press with just a sizing die and two dial indicators.
One indicator on the side with the sizing die and the other indicator on the other side of the shellplate.
Do not set the sizing die to touch the shellplate yet.
You want to watch the shellplate come up while sizing a case and then compare how the shellplate comes up when NOT sizing a case.
Now turn the die down a little so you are hard bumping the die on the shellplate and repeat the measurements.
It should be easy to see what's happening once you have the indicators showing you what you can not see.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-22-2022, 7:52 AM
Greg Curci Greg Curci is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 26
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Thank you for all the advice, I probably should have noted that I bought once fired brass from another calgunner. My case gauge is to SAAMI specs. This is my first time reloading rifle cartridges after loading pistol for a while. I've been using the small base dies for the first go around and plan on using a Lee FL die for all the brass that I pick up after using in my AR.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-22-2022, 8:25 AM
smoothy8500's Avatar
smoothy8500 smoothy8500 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 3,234
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Curci View Post
My case gauge is to SAAMI specs.
Everyone always says this. Yet stuff that "fits" the gauge, doesn't always seem to fit the chamber.....

Last edited by smoothy8500; 01-22-2022 at 8:49 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-22-2022, 3:51 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 53,214
iTrader: 112 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
Everyone always says this. Yet stuff that "fits" the gauge, doesn't always seem to fit the chamber.....
And even though they SAY it's to SAAMI spec, quite often it's NOT on the end of the SAAMI specs that you want it to be.
It might be on the other end which is almost no help at all.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-22-2022, 5:03 PM
BrassCase's Avatar
BrassCase BrassCase is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Ramon
Posts: 2,952
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
I've been reloading off a Dilion for years.
Never had a FL resizing issue with any caliber.

I suppose if you are like me and never read the instruction manual for the press you should hang around the guys that do.

Thanks Randal.
Instruction manual? Those are just suggestions
__________________
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong...
NRA Certified:

Chief Range Safety Officer
Instructor: Basic Pistol Shooting
Instructor: Personal Protection Inside the Home
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-22-2022, 7:37 PM
pacrat pacrat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Socialist Republic of SoCal
Posts: 9,049
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
And even though they SAY it's to SAAMI spec, quite often it's NOT on the end of the SAAMI specs that you want it to be.
It might be on the other end which is almost no help at all.
^^^YEP^^^

Not all holes are created equal.

Rifle chamber is a HOLE
Sizer Die is a HOLE

Those 2 HOLES are relevant.

Cartridge Gage is a HOLE. But until it is PROVEN to match the Chamber HOLE.

It is just another source of problems in the "TOLERANCE STACKING SOUP" that plagues all things reloading related.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-23-2022, 9:37 PM
hambam105 hambam105 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,272
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Randal...
I will put this on the, Do-List.
A local neighbor might be up for this challenge who has machines equipment looking for another learning opportunity.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-23-2022, 10:37 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 53,214
iTrader: 112 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
Randal...
I will put this on the, Do-List.
A local neighbor might be up for this challenge who has machines equipment looking for another learning opportunity.
Take the spring/ball out from under the shellplate and snug the shellplate down when you do the test.
Having the spring/ball in there and not having the shellplate snug to the shellplate platform will give you false readings.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-24-2022, 6:34 PM
tawadc95 tawadc95 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 499
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

You need a comparator to measure shoulder of a fired from your rifle case and a sized case.
Once you know each measurement you adjust the lock ring on your die with calipers and acquire your .004-.005 set back for AR.
Check that it chambers and the bolt fully rotated closed with all the springs out. After confirming the bolt closes the same feel without and with a properly sized case you put a couple pieces of wrapping tape on the head of the case and ithe bolt should close with some resistance if you are indeed .004-.005 setback.
Calipers are your best friend.
Make sure neck is proper length and external diameter before chambering.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-24-2022, 11:28 PM
hambam105 hambam105 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,272
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Exnay, a technical term, spring & ball bearing during measurement test. Understood.

I will put Dillion to the test.

Can't see myself ever going to a Hornaday or Lee Progressive.

The plan is to knock out primer with universal decapping die. and then FL re-size rifle cases.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-25-2022, 12:42 AM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 53,214
iTrader: 112 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
The plan is to knock out primer with universal decapping die. and then FL re-size rifle cases.
Go read my stickied high volume brass processing thread.

In a 5 station 650, Put a lube die in station 1 to decap and lube.
Put a trimmer or sizer in station 3.
Put a Lyman M die in station 5.

Both the Lube Die and Lyman M die get adjusted against the shellplate to support the shellplate from cantilevering while you are sizing on the other side of the shellplate.

The sizing die does not need a button since the M die does the expanding.
Cases expanded downwards are not going to get their shoulders pulled forward by the expander being drawn upwards through the neck.
The much longer expander of an M die is much more gentle than an expander ball which has to be really short to fit into the case while the case is being sized.
If you trim in station 3 with a dillon trimmer, the M die will break off any internal burr that is left from trimming.
The tumbling you do to get rid of the lube should break off any external burrs too.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-25-2022, 3:47 AM
NoHeavyHitter's Avatar
NoHeavyHitter NoHeavyHitter is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: in 7B
Posts: 2,797
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

You mention your brass is "mixed headstamp" and that you bought it from someone else. That sounds a lot like range-pick-up brass to me, which means you have no way to know how many times it was fired.

So, on that notion, are you checking the OAL of all these shells to ensure that they are below maximum trim length? Bottle-neck rifle brass grows in length every time it's fired. If it gets too long it's possible to have the kind problems you are having, so be sure to pay attention to OAL.

Just so you know, once my brass is on it's "last shot", I tend not to bother picking it up when I used to visit public ranges. I suspect that others do the same with theirs. Mixed headstamp brass has its issues and keeping the case lengths equal goes a long way towards producing consistent bullet crimps - which will yield more consistent accuracy.

Get used to trimming your brass now. You are going to have to do it if you keep reloading. When I started out, I didn't have a brass trimmer and never knew how much improvement having one made. Better be doing the paper-clip test for detecting a coming head separation too. When I leave brass on the ground, it's because It's done and I don't want a case head separation. That is why I check very carefully any brass that I pick up. Using pick-up brass is fine - you just need to scrutinize it a bit more than what you shoot that you know is new.
__________________
Calling illegal aliens “undocumented immigrants” is like calling drug dealers “unlicensed pharmacists”…
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:52 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy

Tactical Pants Tactical Boots Military Boots 5.11 Tactical