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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #121  
Old 11-08-2021, 3:20 PM
seaweedsoyboy seaweedsoyboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
I'll be a little more specific from the previous link I sent. What about a standard 6 pos buffer tube with this installed over it:
https://www.thordsencustoms.com/stan...it-black/.html

Thoughts/opinions for an AR style other?

You would no longer be able to mount any type of stock, but you would have a "rifle buffer tube" installed.
I think you're over-thinking this.

The DOJ regs are just saying that if your other has a "rifle" buffer tube in the pics you send as part of the reg process, that they wont process the registration. That doesn't mean your other isn't legally allowed to have a "rifle" buffer tube for an adjustable brace or something, just that they won't accept photos showing it for the purpose of registration. They're basically saying "put a smooth receiver extension on it when you take the photos," beyond that it doesn't really matter.
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  #122  
Old 11-21-2021, 3:12 PM
Xerxes Xerxes is offline
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For those registering a 1919a4 as a Not a rifle/shotgun/handgun.... now an AW deal.

If the right side plate says "MACHINE GUN" due to manufacture replicating the original WWII plate markings....did you add disclaimers in writing on your application that its built per ATF rules as semi-automatic and note that the DROS clearly said semi-automatic..... to protect your door and dog come January? If so what buzzwords-short sentences did you use? Is there any limit in the text field on the application like the 2017 registration? And can you add web addresses this time?

Did you leave the booster on the firearms for the photos submitted for non permanent attachments removed and in the shortest configuration that it could be fired?....... or did you remove the bearing & booster for the photos. Technically this now obscene contraption could be fired ..... once ..... but it would not be a semiautomatic without the bearing/booster.

Yes these are mind**** game questions because the antigun G-Men like to mind**** the lawful gunowners and lockup peaceful Pro2A demonstrators for 4 years while they let looters, arsonist, and violent protesters go free if they are anti-2A. Our government is locking up peaceful law abiding citizens exercising their rights due to their political beliefs.

EDIT-some more questions
For the photo #3 for the fixed magazine the magazine release device/for removable magazine the push button release mechanism.......was your photo of the top latch, the top cover, did you include photos with a 10 round or less belt in the firearm?

What was the configuration of your 1919 that you tried to register
-with pistol grip that hangs 1/3rd below the action and 2/3rds above?
-with pistol grip but with the pregnant guppy fin like the AR15 Mod-Guppy?
-With Spade grips?
-With buffer tube only (i.e. backplate used for spade grips, or with pistol grip cut off)?

Looking for ideas of what folks did so I can then pick from the best sounding idea.

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for your time reading this and providing your experience in a reply!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

Last edited by Xerxes; 11-21-2021 at 4:53 PM..
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  #123  
Old 11-23-2021, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
For those registering a 1919a4 as a Not a rifle/shotgun/handgun.... now an AW deal.

If the right side plate says "MACHINE GUN" due to manufacture replicating the original WWII plate markings....did you add disclaimers in writing on your application that its built per ATF rules as semi-automatic and note that the DROS clearly said semi-automatic..... to protect your door and dog come January? If so what buzzwords-short sentences did you use? Is there any limit in the text field on the application like the 2017 registration? And can you add web addresses this time?

Did you leave the booster on the firearms for the photos submitted for non permanent attachments removed and in the shortest configuration that it could be fired?....... or did you remove the bearing & booster for the photos. Technically this now obscene contraption could be fired ..... once ..... but it would not be a semiautomatic without the bearing/booster.

Yes these are mind**** game questions because the antigun G-Men like to mind**** the lawful gunowners and lockup peaceful Pro2A demonstrators for 4 years while they let looters, arsonist, and violent protesters go free if they are anti-2A. Our government is locking up peaceful law abiding citizens exercising their rights due to their political beliefs.

EDIT-some more questions
For the photo #3 for the fixed magazine the magazine release device/for removable magazine the push button release mechanism.......was your photo of the top latch, the top cover, did you include photos with a 10 round or less belt in the firearm?

What was the configuration of your 1919 that you tried to register
-with pistol grip that hangs 1/3rd below the action and 2/3rds above?
-with pistol grip but with the pregnant guppy fin like the AR15 Mod-Guppy?
-With Spade grips?
-With buffer tube only (i.e. backplate used for spade grips, or with pistol grip cut off)?

Looking for ideas of what folks did so I can then pick from the best sounding idea.

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for your time reading this and providing your experience in a reply!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

I'd like to know as well.
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  #124  
Old 12-14-2021, 12:58 PM
59caddy 59caddy is offline
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Default 1919a4 Bought in December 2007

Hi,
One of my hunting buddies has a John McGuire built 1919a4 semi. Registered in CA when he bought it from John McGuire in December 2007 through his local FFL. He said he does not have to register it because of the date he bought it. Said there was no option as 'other' at that time, so it is fine as it had to have been registered as a rifle.
Is that accurate? Should he register it 'just to be safe'?
Thanks.
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  #125  
Old 12-14-2021, 2:42 PM
Xerxes Xerxes is offline
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My interpretation

It certainly is not a handgun.

Does your 1919 have a butt stock meant for firing from the shoulder?

If not then it is the new understanding by Government & Regulators to be not a rifle and not a handgun thus would follow under the this now any other weapon assualt weapon.

Not sure how exactly it would be done but I heard the rifle stock would make it a rifle.

Your DROS at purchase is not a registration as a rifle as its about its current configuration for Assault Weapon Determination.

......hence I am going to register mine but wanted others who completed the process to provides words of wisdom on the potential traps and how best to go about it like the the back plate with pistol grip or not and the magazine latch photos.
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  #126  
Old 12-14-2021, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 59caddy View Post
Hi,
One of my hunting buddies has a John McGuire built 1919a4 semi. Registered in CA when he bought it from John McGuire in December 2007 through his local FFL. He said he does not have to register it because of the date he bought it. Said there was no option as 'other' at that time, so it is fine as it had to have been registered as a rifle.
Is that accurate? Should he register it 'just to be safe'?
Thanks.
The issue he is going to have is....is it a rifle by CA DOJ's current definition?

If the answer is "No" then if he wants to avoid potential confiscation and/or having an unregistered AW he would likely want to register it.

However, if he has it configured as a "rifle" per CA's definition and it's otherwise not an AW, then there's nothing he needs to do.

When he registered/DROS is irrelevant. It's no different then me saying "Well I had this AR since 1998. Since I bought it then then I don't have to register it as an AW since that wasn't an option in 1998"... It's all about current config and current laws.. and CA keeps changing the goal posts that is how you "create felons with the stroke of a pen"... it's all the folks in your friends category that don't keep up with the laws then ultimately get screwed. They make everything retroactive.
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  #127  
Old 12-29-2021, 12:30 PM
Tankhatch Tankhatch is offline
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Opinion,,,, If you want the m2hb or 1919a4 as manufactured and it was assembled before the date last year, register it.

The 1919a4 can become a rifle, buy buying a surplus stock, from a place like Apex.
A 1919a4 rifle does not need registration.

The m2hb, as manufactured, would need registration. BUT since you cannot make a rifle out it (.50 bmg Rifle Law) limited options.
Those options would be register it, disassemble it, or if a complete gun, get it out of Kalifornia.

I am glad I do not own one of these, thus why I say opinion.
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Last edited by Tankhatch; 12-29-2021 at 12:37 PM..
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  #128  
Old 12-29-2021, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tankhatch View Post
Opinion,,,, If you want the m2hb or 1919a4 as manufactured and it was assembled before the date last year, register it.

The 1919a4 can become a rifle, buy buying a surplus stock, from a place like Apex.
A 1919a4 rifle does not need registration.

The m2hb, as manufactured, would need registration. BUT since you cannot make a rifle out it (.50 bmg Rifle Law) limited options.
Those options would be register it, disassemble it, or if a complete gun, get it out of Kalifornia.
Pretty much. Thanks Tankhatch.
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  #129  
Old 12-29-2021, 2:05 PM
59caddy 59caddy is offline
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Default Beltfed is the Operable Term for Registration

Hi - I think if you add a stock to a 1919a4 that will not exempt it from having to be registered as that still leaves the beltfed feature (ammunition not feeding through the grip) as the reason it needs to be registered as other. Please correct if this is not accurate.
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  #130  
Old 12-29-2021, 2:20 PM
Tankhatch Tankhatch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 59caddy View Post
Hi - I think if you add a stock to a 1919a4 that will not exempt it from having to be registered as that still leaves the beltfed feature (ammunition not feeding through the grip) as the reason it needs to be registered as other. Please correct if this is not accurate.
Opinion
A stock, on a 1919a4 makes it a rifle and NOT a AOW.
AOWs are what they are chasing around, with this law, I believe.

If you are implying the law, about a semi-rifle that uses a magazine, than can load more than 10 rounds.
You only link 10 rounds.

I am glad I do not own one of these, thus why I say opinion.
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Last edited by Tankhatch; 12-29-2021 at 2:32 PM..
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  #131  
Old 12-30-2021, 11:52 AM
59caddy 59caddy is offline
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Default Does a Rifle Stock Exempt a 1919a4?

There seems to be a belief that (Perm, never removing in CA) adding a rifle stock to a 1919a4 will make the 1919a4 a rifle and therefore not required to be registered as 'Other'. Are any 1919a4 owners sharing this assumption?
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  #132  
Old 12-30-2021, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Needs to be before 2014 as 2014 is when stripped lowers started being registered as rifles.
Can never have been registered as OR assembled as a rifle previously.

So a stripped AR lower that you bought before 2014 that was never assembled as a rifle, pistol or shotgun AND that you assembled into an OTHER before 9/1/2020 can be registered as an Other Assault Weapon in the current registry opening.

The worst thing about CA is there is never a clear answer, almost on purpose. A Ma Deuce is registered as a long gun, rifle, no stock. If it was a rifle it would be illegal due to 50BMG law. They were not, hence all the new registration.

Just because its a rifle doesn't make it a rifle.

Last edited by KOVERT; 12-31-2021 at 1:21 AM..
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  #133  
Old 12-30-2021, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Needs to be before 2014 as 2014 is when stripped lowers started being registered as rifles.
Can never have been registered as OR assembled as a rifle previously.

So a stripped AR lower that you bought before 2014 that was never assembled as a rifle, pistol or shotgun AND that you assembled into an OTHER before 9/1/2020 can be registered as an Other Assault Weapon in the current registry opening.
How is it ok to register a 1919 then? It was a "rifle" by default because of the 16" barrel. Or any type of "pistol" that now has a 16" barrel. Everything has to be registered as pistol or rifle at some point.
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  #134  
Old 12-30-2021, 9:46 PM
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See the previous 4 pages of discussions, as you might get a hint of what to do.
If still insecure, dismember it and send it to a friendlier state.
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  #135  
Old 12-31-2021, 1:10 AM
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Originally Posted by portside_gunner View Post
The worst thing about CA is there is never a clear answer, almost on purpose. A Ma Deuce is registered as a long gun, rifle, no stock. If it was a rifle it would be illegal due to 50BMG law. The were not, hence all the new registration.

Just because its a rifle doesn't make it a rifle.
A rifle has to have a buttstock.
A typical M2 does not have a buttstock.
A firearm with a barrel over 16" but no buttstock is a "long gun, other".

A typical M2 is legal since it's a long gun because long guns were not covered under the 50bmg RIFLE ban.

The new law requires an M2 to be registered as a "long gun, other".

Last edited by ar15barrels; 12-31-2021 at 1:22 AM..
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  #136  
Old 12-31-2021, 1:21 AM
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Originally Posted by portside_gunner View Post
How is it ok to register a 1919 then? It was a "rifle" by default because of the 16" barrel. Or any type of "pistol" that now has a 16" barrel. Everything has to be registered as pistol or rifle at some point.
You misunderstand how barrel length plays into classification of firearm type.
A 16" barrel does NOT make a rifle unless you also have a buttstock.
A less than 16" barrel does NOT automatically make a handgun either.
There are different sets of laws that deliniate title 1 arms from title 2 arms.
Title 2 arms fall under the NFA and require special tax stamps.
Title 1 arms only get the standard excise tax paid by the manufacturer.
You also have to look at how the gun is designed to be held to further classify it.

A title 1 handgun has one handgrip, usually at the back of the gun.
The barrel can be less than 16" or more than 16".
An AOW has 2 handgrips, one at the back and one at the front and is under 26" overall length.
The barrel can be less than 16" or more than 16", with the 16" length dividing title 1 arms from title 2 (NFA) arms.
A title 1 long gun with a 16" barrel and no stock is called a "long gun, other" by CA state or simply a "title 1 other" by the feds.
A rifle has a buttstock that rests on the shoulder at the back and a barrel over 16".
The barrel can be less than 16" or more than 16", with the 16" length dividing title 1 arms from title 2 (NFA) arms.
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