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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 09-24-2021, 3:37 PM
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Default Qualifying Sacramento County with Mouse Pistol

If I read correctly the qualification requires that you use the weapon that you will carry. I am having a hard time even thinking about hitting an 80% score at 15 yards, 45 feet away with a Bersa 380. A 4-inch barrel Smith revolver yeah but ??? What am I missing here ? - thanks
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Old 09-24-2021, 3:57 PM
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Yes you are only allowed to carry guns you qualify with.
If you are worried about passing with a gun you already have you should either wait,practice more or buy new guns
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  #3  
Old 09-24-2021, 4:05 PM
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I don't know about Sacramento County and their policy. But have you measured out 15 yards? It's about the distance of a standard length of a room. Don't over stress or over think the distance. I have a little sub nose .38 special with less than a 2 inch barrel on my ccw and I can hit 20-25 yards accurate enough to put someone down with it.

The biggest issue for me even dating back to my law enforcement days was over thinking and stressing and not just relaxing and handling the gun. Now the Bersa may not be the most accurate gun never shot one but 15 yards should be fine.

If your worried about it go to the range and fire some rounds; just like anything practice builds confidence.
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Old 09-24-2021, 4:13 PM
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The majority of the range qualification test is well below 15 yards...

Stage 1 - 15 yards - 6 rounds in 30 seconds

6 standing position

Stage 2 - 7 yards - 14 rounds in 45 seconds (includes 2 reloads) (load 6, 6 and 2)

6 standing position (drop to knees and reload when kneeling)

8 kneeling position (conduct reload on knees)

Stage 3 - 7 yards - 6 rounds in 10 seconds (any position)

Stage 4 - 7 yards - 12 rounds in 25 seconds (includes reload)(load 6 and 6)

6 strong hand unsupported (reload and switch hands)

6 weak hand unsupported

Stage 5 - 5 yards 6 rounds

3 rounds in 4 seconds (2 stages draw shoot three , re-holster X 2)

Stage 6 - 3 yards 6 rounds

2 rounds in 3 seconds (3 stages, draw shoot two, re-holster X3)
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Old 09-24-2021, 6:31 PM
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If you can't hit a 11x17 size paper with 80% of the rounds, you need more practice.

2 out of my 3 guns are little 3" barrel guns. Without even trying, I dropped 1 round outside the 9 ring. You just need 80% within the 6 ring.
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  #6  
Old 09-25-2021, 1:13 AM
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Those Bersas can be very very accurate. Spend some time at the range with yours - it might have a slightly different "hold" than other guns. But passing accuracy is within the gun's capability, and yours - perhaps with a little practice.
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  #7  
Old 09-25-2021, 1:41 AM
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Firestorm .380s can hit an 8" plate at 15 yards all day long if you do your part.
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  #8  
Old 09-25-2021, 5:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flouncer View Post
If I read correctly the qualification requires that you use the weapon that you will carry. I am having a hard time even thinking about hitting an 80% score at 15 yards, 45 feet away with a Bersa 380. A 4-inch barrel Smith revolver yeah but ??? What am I missing here ? - thanks
Why are you using guns you dislike? If you cannot perform with the Bersa, then you need to either invest in a few thousand rounds of ammunition, get some training, and PUT IN THE TIME. 15 yards is NOT far. Go stand on your porch with a laser range finder and check distances. If you can laser it, just remember that someone with a pistol can shoot you even if you think it's "too far".

Second, why are you using an inefficient gun like the Bersa (assuming it's their Thunder model that looks like a PPK)? It has a terrible trigger, doesn't hold 10 rounds, and is of anemic caliber. I totally get using 380 if you are pocket carrying a Ruger LCP; I do that periodically. Move up to at least 9x19mm and go with the Glock 26, HK P2000SK or even the S&W Shield (they are on the CA roster). These guns have far better triggers out of the box and will likely be easier to use.

Additionally, that revolver will carry just fine. Use a Milt Sparks Versa Max 2 and carry ammunition in a Split Six style loader holder or a kydex one from Speed Beez. I put one in front of the gun and a spare in the pocket (with a cover over the tips). But, most people can't handle "a big gun" for carry and choose smaller guns. While I get it, 4" gun will be more effective.
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Old 09-25-2021, 6:10 AM
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I’m mixed on this one.
My freedom loving self says it’s a shame we need to do this at all.
The practical me says don’t carry something you are not confident with….That said, chances are if you ever have to use your CCW it will probably be at an arms length distance.
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Old 09-25-2021, 7:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrkba View Post
Second, why are you using an inefficient gun like the Bersa (assuming it's their Thunder model that looks like a PPK)?
The on-Roster Bersa Firestorm .380 is basically an Argentine made Walther PPK/S clone.
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Old 09-26-2021, 5:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44fred View Post
That said, chances are if you ever have to use your CCW it will probably be at an arms length distance.
If the guy isn't social distancing, it is probably too late for the gun.
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Old 09-29-2021, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flouncer View Post
If I read correctly the qualification requires that you use the weapon that you will carry. I am having a hard time even thinking about hitting an 80% score at 15 yards, 45 feet away with a Bersa 380. A 4-inch barrel Smith revolver yeah but ??? What am I missing here ? - thanks
Have you tried?

You don't need 80% at 15 yds; you need 80% of 50 shots...40 hits or 10 misses.

As the BSIS Course of Fire posted by Glock n Roll shows:
S1; 15 yds: Miss 6/6.
S2/3/4; 7 yds: Miss 4/32.
S 5; 5 yds: Miss 0/6
S6; 3 yds: Miss 0/6

80%. If you're going to sweat anything, sweat the 7 yd line. That's 64% of your rounds and incorporates reloads.

Also, you have WAY more time to fire than you are given, but just about everybody I've seen over the years has rushed through and thrown shots. Most ranges throttle you back to one round per second. Think about how much time you would have left over on the timed volleys if you shot at 1 rd/sec. Slow down and use all of your time.

You don't get extra points for being done first or missing faster.
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Old 10-07-2021, 10:22 AM
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Try it, if you haven't already.

I have qualified and requalified with a Bersa 380 at least 5 times now, never failed and almost always shot 100%. I was my most-accurate CCW until I added a fullsize 1911.

I'm not bragging, it's just easier than you think with the Bersa. That's an accurate little pistol.
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Old 10-07-2021, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty View Post
If the guy isn't social distancing, it is probably too late for the gun.
As long as there's a paper mask on the muzzle it's probably fine.

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Old 10-13-2021, 8:05 AM
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I had just returned from the range when I posted this. I love the pistol and like shooting it. For those that offered anything remotely helpful thank you. FWIW I was shooting the scoring ring with X targets at Sac Val Shooting Center which have six scoring targets on the target paper. I would casually guess those rings are about 14 inches across and 9/X ring about 3 1/2 to 4 inches wide. Not really a sure hit of 80% on that area of the that target at 45 feet away with a 3-inch barrel. I was concerned with that aspect of the shooting and scoring. Found the Sacramento County Sheriffs page. The scoring is as Glock n Roll said. Their "target" may be the B-27 or similar. The scoring area is much much larger than the bullseye ring target I was shooting at, an obvious source of "overthinking" for me.. Can anyone actually identify the target name or type that Sacramento County uses ? " Silhouette targets shall be used. A five point score shall be granted for each round discharged inside of the seven ring (center mass) " Is that a B-27 Target ? (Edit - Confirmed with SVSC that it is a B-27 target)

Thanks.

Sacramento County - https://www.sacsheriff.com/documents...t%20CCW%20.pdf

Consumer Affairs from which the County Quotes Verbatim - Page 86 - https://www.bsis.ca.gov/forms_pubs/firearms_manual.pdf

B-27 Target - http://www.southernpoliceequipment.c...TargetB-27.jpg
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Last edited by Flouncer; 10-13-2021 at 8:31 AM..
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Old 10-13-2021, 4:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flouncer View Post
I had just returned from the range when I posted this. I love the pistol and like shooting it. For those that offered anything remotely helpful thank you. FWIW I was shooting the scoring ring with X targets at Sac Val Shooting Center which have six scoring targets on the target paper. I would casually guess those rings are about 14 inches across and 9/X ring about 3 1/2 to 4 inches wide. Not really a sure hit of 80% on that area of the that target at 45 feet away with a 3-inch barrel. I was concerned with that aspect of the shooting and scoring. Found the Sacramento County Sheriffs page. The scoring is as Glock n Roll said. Their "target" may be the B-27 or similar. The scoring area is much much larger than the bullseye ring target I was shooting at, an obvious source of "overthinking" for me.. Can anyone actually identify the target name or type that Sacramento County uses ? " Silhouette targets shall be used. A five point score shall be granted for each round discharged inside of the seven ring (center mass) " Is that a B-27 Target ? (Edit - Confirmed with SVSC that it is a B-27 target)

Thanks.

Sacramento County - https://www.sacsheriff.com/documents...t%20CCW%20.pdf

Consumer Affairs from which the County Quotes Verbatim - Page 86 - https://www.bsis.ca.gov/forms_pubs/firearms_manual.pdf

B-27 Target - http://www.southernpoliceequipment.c...TargetB-27.jpg
Approximate ring size. This target was designed for 50 yd quals.

7 ring is 400 mm by 600 mm or about 15 3/4 inches by 23 5/8 inches
8 ring is 300 mm by 450 mm or about 11.8" by 17.7"
9 ring is 200 mm by 300 mm or about 8" by 11.8"
#10 is 100 mm by 150 mm or about 4" by 6"
X is 55 mm by 78 mm or about 2" by 3”

You need 40 rounds in the 7 ring or better to score 80% overall.

Again, concentrate on 7 yds to 3 yds.

Take all the time you need.

Also, pay attention to the footnote on Page 2 of the SSD Course of Fire letter. Old folks (Moi) don’t kneel to shoot. It takes too long to get back up.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 10-13-2021 at 4:38 PM..
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Old 10-14-2021, 8:13 AM
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Thanks Dvr and B yond.
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