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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #201  
Old 01-17-2019, 3:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Key words there, ones you`ve missed but highlighted.

`function like a fully automatic weapon`

The bump stock does NOT make a semi auto FUNCTION like a fully auto.
It still requires a single activation of the trigger to fire a single round.

Like many, including the Dems, when reading this you`re stuck on concepts not words.

People read this and took the meaning to be what you did, perform like, rather than what was said, function like.

Words have meanings and they , despite what the left would have you believe, are defined.
While you did not quote me I'm guessing you responded to me since I included this bold in my response to you:
The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.

Can you explain to me what concepts, words, allusions, illusions, etc have do do with any of your post?

Please explain what difference any use of words, terms, definitions have as bearing on the NRA position to ban (regulate) bump stocks and its history of supporting machine gun bans (regulations)

If you were not responding to me I apologize and please ignore this post.
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  #202  
Old 01-17-2019, 3:28 PM
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Default I didnt say I "Hate the NRA"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenemae View Post

given what we would lose if the NRA disappeared tomorrow. And that seems to be your preferred outcome given you statement of "Why I quit and wont go back to the NRA". I don't think 2A is better off with the NRA gone, and that's definitely the stance you're taking,
Hey guess what, I voted for Trump and gave extra $$ to the NRA Defeat Hillary Fund in 2016.

Where in my post did I say I "Hate the NRA"? Where in my post did I say that I believe the "2A would be better off without the NRA"? QUOTE ME, DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!

What would we lose if the NRA were to disappear tomorrow??? Would we lose the 2nd Amendment??? Do you think that the NRA grants you your gun rights???

Do you realize that Gun Rights are granted by God/Nature/Free-Will and enumerated in the 2nd Amendment, and that they were not granted to you by the NRA or the government? If the NRA closed up tomorrow do you honestly believe that there would no longer be a 2A in the United States? Do you honestly believe that Patriotic Americans would all just wake up one morning and suddenly decide they had better go turn in their firearms because the NRA closed down? Do you believe that there would not be other organizations that would fill the void left behind?

If the NRA disappeared tomorrow I would still have rifles/ammo sitting in my gun safe as would the 10s of millions of other Patriots spread out across this country.

And hey guess what else, the 2A would still be there written down plain as day for all to read, in every copy of the US Constitution published. I think I own a few copies myself, Ill mail you one if the NRA ever closes down.
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  #203  
Old 01-17-2019, 5:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekG View Post
Hey guess what, I voted for Trump and gave extra $$ to the NRA Defeat Hillary Fund in 2016.

Where in my post did I say I "Hate the NRA"? Where in my post did I say that I believe the "2A would be better off without the NRA"? QUOTE ME, DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!

What would we lose if the NRA were to disappear tomorrow??? Would we lose the 2nd Amendment??? Do you think that the NRA grants you your gun rights???

Do you realize that Gun Rights are granted by God/Nature/Free-Will and enumerated in the 2nd Amendment, and that they were not granted to you by the NRA or the government? If the NRA closed up tomorrow do you honestly believe that there would no longer be a 2A in the United States? Do you honestly believe that Patriotic Americans would all just wake up one morning and suddenly decide they had better go turn in their firearms because the NRA closed down? Do you believe that there would not be other organizations that would fill the void left behind?

If the NRA disappeared tomorrow I would still have rifles/ammo sitting in my gun safe as would the 10s of millions of other Patriots spread out across this country.

And hey guess what else, the 2A would still be there written down plain as day for all to read, in every copy of the US Constitution published. I think I own a few copies myself, Ill mail you one if the NRA ever closes down.
Considering you are a fighting NRA member and you are used to political battles.

I think you would try to restore the stolen rights by a big international,media,democrat fueled cabal of tyrants.

Now that is established you and others would fight.

Keep in mind this repeal of the 2nd amendment would enjoy popular support of the existing media,government schools and all but few old hard core RKBA types.
Gun owners, patriots and liberty lovers will have been sufficiently demonized where no one will trust anyone.
Further there will be no NRA to speak, write and lobby for RKBA .

So,Sir how would the restoration begin?
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  #204  
Old 01-17-2019, 5:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekG View Post
Do you realize that Gun Rights are granted by God/Nature/Free-Will and enumerated in the 2nd Amendment, and that they were not granted to you by the NRA or the government?
Be sure to tell the police that when you get nabbed with a suppressor in CA. I'm sure they'll realize their error and let you be on your way.

Let me know how it goes.
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  #205  
Old 01-17-2019, 8:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
They backed Trump and both of his supreme picks. Tell me how that was not in my interest.

What were the most devastating anti gun legislation that they “helped pass”?
Well, they were bound to get something right eventually.

NFA, GCA, FOPA (which is largely irrelevant except for the Hughes Amendment) and most recently the review of bump stocks. Now they support red flag laws.
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  #206  
Old 01-17-2019, 8:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Wow, Lets Scream at the NRA, instead of the
Anti Gun Democrats who keep forcing these Anti-2A Bills
down our collective throats, treating us like criminals ....


The NRA sent me some email..... Waaaah !!
The NRA Didn't send me some email ...... Waaaah !!
The NRA asked me for Money to help defend 2nd Am. ...Waaah!
The NRA didn't perform Miracles in Calif with my paltry $25 membership. Waaah!
The NRA didn't push my lazy azz off the couch so I would Vote .... Waaah !!
The NRA didn't force me to call or write politicians to defend my Rights. Waaah!
The NRA couldn't force people to show up at Rally's ... Waaah !!
The NRA didn't magically change Calif from Anti Gun Democrat to Republican. W!
The NRA didn't help me tie my shoes this morning. Waaah !!

The NRA helped Win stunning victorys in Congress & Presidency, saving the
2nd Amendment from the Hillary Hordes, but lets Whine & Cry over
some issues like Bump Stocks that had a Real Chance of being Banned
by Congress to appease the Outrage Mob stirred up by the Anti-2A Media
after the Vegas Massacre:


Poll: 82 percent Support a Ban on Bump Stocks
The Hill. BY MAX GREENWOOD - 10/13/17
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...on-bump-stocks


The NRA successfully directed this away from Congress, to let the Mob's
Political Momentum Fizzle out, and allow the ATF to be sued later if needed.

No matter how much money the NRA poured into it, they probably would
have lost to the tremendous political pressure put to Congress to Ban Bump
Stocks, and that would have been A Lot Harder to repeal, versus a ATF regulation.

How much Political Capital and Money should the NRA have wasted on
this One Issue ? $10 Million ? 25M? 50M? just to appease the Purists ?!

We Need that money for the 2020 Elections, the NRA has a LIMITED
Amount of Cash, versus the ENDLESS piles of Cash from the ANTI-2A
Bloomberg Minions. Plus its Income is under assault from Political
Malfeasance that even the ACLU thinks is illegal:

ACLU backs NRA in lawsuit against Gov. Cuomo
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...inst-gov-cuomo

For God's Sake People, the NRA is Not a Miracle Worker, its just people like
you and me, pushing back against the Anti Gunners, donating Time,
Money and Effort to defending the 2nd Amendment from Annihilation.



This bears repeating for all the misinformed NRA Bashers....




Emphasis mine.

The Anti NRA posts show a willful ignorance of reality...

They expect miracles from their minuscule $25/$40 yearly membership fee,
when Bloombergs Billionaire Boys Club drops MILLIONS of dollars into
assorted Anti Gun causes, and they often out spend us by huge margins.

Then to compound this hugely unrealistic expectation, they often don't
realize that they also need to donate to the NRA-ILA, which does the
Actual heavy lifting in the Political and Legal arenas.

Just being a NRA member without donating to NRA-ILA is the equivalent
of buying a Rifle without purchasing any ammunition for it...


Best way to Fight Back at these Anti Rights, Anti Self Defense,
Anti Gun Zealots, is to:


Join The NRA...
https://joinnra.nra.org/join/join.aspx

Then Donate to the NRA-ILA...
https://www.nraila.org/donate/


Noble
Well this is certainly a rational response.

It is possible to be critical of more than one side. I know that can be overwhelming, but I don't like to look at things in black and white. My support of the 2nd amendment does not mean I am required to support the NRA. My lack of support for the NRA does not mean I ignore the anti gunners.

I have voted in every election since I turned 18, without the NRA pushing me off a couch. I have called and emailed to oppose as many gun control laws as possible, without the NRA pushing me in front of the computer. I have donated and supported multiple gun rights groups. I have been to multiple rallies and events. I have taken people shooting. I have discussed guns with people who never even considered them.

You honestly think the NRA had even the smallest part in Donald Trump winning?

I'm sure you can find 82% of a group that wants AR15s banned. I guess we should cheer when the NRA turns against them too?

The NRA has done little to secure our rights and some of us can see that but were delusional because we don't fall at their feet and worship? Please...
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  #207  
Old 01-17-2019, 8:15 PM
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Yes the NRA had lots to do with Donald Trump winning . We made 10s of thousands of phone calls and the NRA contributed heavily to his campaign.
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  #208  
Old 01-17-2019, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
...and the NRA contributed heavily to his campaign.
Put that in context.

Trump's campaign is estimated to have spent $398 million; a little over half of what Hillary's campaign spent at $768 million.

Okay. The claim that the NRA donated $30 million to Trump's campaign is a bit misleading. As Fortune magazine noted back in Feb. 2018...

Quote:
In the 2016 election, the NRA spent $11,438,118 to support Donald Trump—and another $19,756,346 to oppose Hillary Clinton. That’s over $31 million spent on one presidential race.
In other words, 2/3 of the money donated by the NRA would have gone to whomever the nominee was running against Hillary. Even so, $11,438,118 represents a little less than 3% of the total amount Trump's campaign is estimated to have actually spent. While that's still a sizable percentage from a single organization, I don't believe it counts the donations from individuals and it certainly doesn't account for donations by other, pro-gun groups.
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  #209  
Old 01-18-2019, 1:52 AM
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My Responses in BOLD:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
Well this is certainly a rational response.

It is possible to be critical of more than one side. I know that can be overwhelming, but I don't like to look at things in black and white. My support of the 2nd amendment does not mean I am required to support the NRA. My lack of support for the NRA does not mean I ignore the anti gunners.

I have voted in every election since I turned 18, without the NRA pushing me off a couch. I have called and emailed to oppose as many gun control laws as possible, without the NRA pushing me in front of the computer. I have donated and supported multiple gun rights groups. I have been to multiple rallies and events. I have taken people shooting. I have discussed guns with people who never even considered them.
Excellent ...

At least we have some Common Ground that we Both can Agree on.


Quote:
You honestly think the NRA had even the smallest part in Donald Trump winning?
Your welcome to your personal opinion, however wrong it may be.
So lets see how the Opposition analyzed Trumps Victory:

Wayne LaPierre's biggest win: The National Rifle Association
was pushing Trumpism long before Donald Trump

Salon. 12/5/2016
https://www.salon.com/2016/12/05/way...-donald-trump/
BEGIN QUOTE:
"So the NRA went all in for Trump and spent millions on ads bashing
Hillary Clinton in places like Columbus, Ohio; Greensboro, North Carolina;
and Scranton, Pennsylvania. (I wrote for Salon about the NRA's first ad
this past summer.) According to the Center for Public Integrity, nearly 1
out of 20 TV ads in Pennsylvania was paid for by the NRA, and the group
ran nearly 15,000 spots in the crucial swing states that Trump
narrowly won, deciding the election."

END QUOTE. (Emphasis mine.)



The NRA Placed Big Bets on the 2016 Election,
and Won Almost All of Them

Open Secrets Center for Responsive Politics. November 9, 2016
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...t-all-of-them/


BEGIN QUOTE:
"The 2016 election results represent a continuation of the NRA’s impressive
success rate when making substantial investments in closely-contested
races
. Over the three prior election cycles, the group disbursed $1 million
dollars or more toward 14 congressional races and achieved its desired
outcome 11 times. To help Republicans win back the Senate in 2014, it
spent $20.6 million dollars on five key races in the upper chamber, and
in each of them, its preferred candidate won.


This election cycle, the NRA spent more than $52 million—a number that
will rise as final campaign finance figures are tallied — to carry on its effort
to increase Republican control of government, a mission that has ramped
up since the Citizen’s United decision in 2010, when the Supreme Court
removed caps on independent expenditures. The sum is by far the greatest
in the organization’s history, smashing its previous record, of $31.7
million, set in 2014."

END QUOTE.


The NRA successfully analyzed the 2016 Election, and helped Trump
Win in Key Swing States. Its not the amount of money spent, its
HOW you apply it, and the NRA successfully concentrated its clout
in those key states. Plus, the NRA is successful at getting out the
vote, and informing Gun Owners & NRA Members WHO to vote for:


The True Source of the N.R.A.’s Clout:
Mobilization, Not Donations

New York Times. 2/24/2018
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/24/u...l-florida.html
BEGIN QUOTE:
In Florida and other states across the country, as well as on Capitol Hill,
the N.R.A. derives its political influence instead from a muscular
electioneering machine, fueled by tens of millions of dollars’ worth of
campaign ads and voter-guide mailings, that scrutinizes candidates for
their views on guns and propels members to the polls.

“It’s really not the contributions,” said Cleta Mitchell, a former N.R.A.
board member. “It’s the ability of the N.R.A. to tell its members:
Here’s who’s good on the Second Amendment.”


"Far more than any check the N.R.A. could write, it is this mobilization
operation that has made the organization such a challenging adversary
for Democrats and gun control advocates
."

END QUOTE.


Quote:
I'm sure you can find 82% of a group that wants AR15s banned. I guess we should cheer when the NRA turns against them too?
Well, I guess political analysis is not your forte.

Go back and review all the Mass Media Articles influencing the
masses that Bump Stocks needed to be Banned. Then also
respond to my original post about how much Political Capital
and Money the NRA should have spent on fighting this.

The point was the Anti-Gun Mass Media had whipped up an
Outrage Mob to garner Political Support for Congress to Ban
Bump Stocks. The NRA successfully directed this away from
Congress to the ATF, where regulations could be challenged
easier than if Congress had passed an actual Law.


NRA Statement on Bump Fire Stock Rule
FRIDAY, DECEMBER 21, 2018
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2018...ire-stock-rule
BEGIN QUOTE:
"This week, the Department of Justice announced that it would soon be
releasing a final rule classifying “bump-stock-type-devices” as
“machineguns” under the National Firearms Act.

These devices came to national attention in October 2017 after the horrific
attack in Las Vegas. As multiple media accounts correctly pointed to at
the time, there was overwhelming legislative support for proposals that
went far beyond these specific devices and some that could have
potentially jeopardized all semiautomatic firearms. Rather than sit back
and watch a legislative over-reaction, the NRA asked Congress to let
ATF review its prior determinations on bump fire stocks.


Some have used our October 2017 statement to claim that NRA supports
ATF’s final rule, but as NRA-ILA’s Executive Director Chris Cox noted
only days after our statement was issued,
“We don’t believe that bans have ever worked on anything.”

END QUOTE.



Quote:
The NRA has done little to secure our rights and some of us can see that but were delusional because we don't fall at their feet and worship? Please...
Your personal opinion, which Ignores the NRA basically saving the 2A
from the Hillary Democrat Horde, which would have rebalanced SCOTUS
to be Anti-2A, along with hundreds of Anti 2A Judges.

I get it. You don't want to stand next to me and Millions of other
NRA Members to fight Bloomberg and the Democrats. So Be it.



Noble

Last edited by Noble Cause; 01-18-2019 at 4:36 AM.. Reason: added missing section
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  #210  
Old 01-18-2019, 2:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
Put that in context.

Trump's campaign is estimated to have spent $398 million; a little over half of what Hillary's campaign spent at $768 million.

Okay. The claim that the NRA donated $30 million to Trump's campaign is a bit misleading. As Fortune magazine noted back in Feb. 2018...



In other words, 2/3 of the money donated by the NRA would have gone to whomever the nominee was running against Hillary. Even so, $11,438,118 represents a little less than 3% of the total amount Trump's campaign is estimated to have actually spent. While that's still a sizable percentage from a single organization, I don't believe it counts the donations from individuals and it certainly doesn't account for donations by other, pro-gun groups.

It is also HOW the NRA Concentrated their money in Crucial Swing states,
along with their excellent ability to get out the vote that won those
swing states for Trump.

Analogous to the "Last Straw" idiom:

The NRA successfully placed that Crucial Last Straw on several
states Democrat Donkeys, causing them to Collapse.

This astute Political ability is another reason why the Anti 2A Left Hate
the NRA with a Passion, and Demonize the NRA on a Daily Basis.


Noble

Last edited by Noble Cause; 01-18-2019 at 2:22 AM..
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  #211  
Old 01-18-2019, 4:17 AM
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There is the NRA’s policy on the 2A and then there is the political reality of dealing with Congress. The NRA has to walk that line and sometimes they have to work to poison pill or mitigate really bad legislation. Then people get all upset because the NRA didn’t take the hard line. Never mind that taking the hard line would have resulted in a permanent 1994 gun ban, etc.
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  #212  
Old 01-18-2019, 5:42 AM
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I'm glad people enjoymy posts. I enjoy yours as well. What I mosst enjoy is how you all make stuff up to say I said so you can refute it. That's called straw man.

Very weak hands here. If you have to make stuff up so you can refute it, you make a very weak case. Let me guess: most of you attacking false things voted for trump. Amirite? ;-)

Quote:
Separately, NPR also found overlapping content posted by the NRA and Internet Research Agency on Twitter.

The accounts have generated tweets mentioning the @NRA, @NRANEWS, or @NRAILA accounts a total of 199 times. Dana Loesch, an outspoken supporter of gun rights who would become a spokeswoman for the NRA in 2017, was tagged 77 times on her Twitter handle "@DLoesch."

The National Rifle Association, on at least 90 occasions, promoted Twitter content similar to that of the Internet Research Agency, in some cases after that group had gone first.
Just because youdon't go to the NPR link does not mean that faxcts are not there. The quote above came from the npr link I posted.

Russian influence. Just as I said inmy original post on this thread:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post
Because in general people are:

A) Sheep

B) Stupid

Not necessarily in that order...

C) not wanting Russian influe3nce

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...tina-lobbying/
Go back to page 3. That letter C? FrankMo postted it.

I showed Russian influence. My work here is done. There's not anything you folks can do to change the facts. Just because you don't look at them does not mean they don't exist.

FrankMo
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  #213  
Old 01-18-2019, 6:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
I'm glad people enjoymy posts. I enjoy yours as well. What I mosst enjoy is how you all make stuff up to say I said so you can refute it. That's called straw man.

Very weak hands here. If you have to make stuff up so you can refute it, you make a very weak case. Let me guess: most of you attacking false things voted for trump. Amirite? ;-)



Just because youdon't go to the NPR link does not mean that faxcts are not there. The quote above came from the npr link I posted.

Russian influence. Just as I said inmy original post on this thread:



Go back to page 3. That letter C? FrankMo postted it.

I showed Russian influence. My work here is done. There's not anything you folks can do to change the facts. Just because you don't look at them does not mean they don't exist.

FrankMo
There is not anything we folks can do to change YOUR MIND. The facts are most certainly not there

Bleat about straw man arguments all day long. Your reality is based on fevered wishful thinking.

There is no russian influence, only an attempted influence that the NRA didnt know about.

Your position is similar to finding out that someone hired a handsome PI to try to lure your wife into cheating, and finding out about the plan before anything happened, so you are mad at your wife.

This is baggage you brought to the discussion, not the product of clesr thinking on your part.
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You are talking to someone who already won this lame conversation, not a brick a wall. Too bad you don't realize it.
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My transvestite analogy stands.
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Originally Posted by waterfern View Post
Didn't realize. I try not to be political.
XXXXXXXXXXXX

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  #214  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
I'm glad people enjoymy posts. I enjoy yours as well. What I mosst enjoy is how you all make stuff up to say I said so you can refute it. That's called straw man.

Very weak hands here. If you have to make stuff up so you can refute it, you make a very weak case. Let me guess: most of you attacking false things voted for trump. Amirite? ;-)



Just because youdon't go to the NPR link does not mean that faxcts are not there. The quote above came from the npr link I posted.

Russian influence. Just as I said inmy original post on this thread:



Go back to page 3. That letter C? FrankMo postted it.

I showed Russian influence. My work here is done. There's not anything you folks can do to change the facts. Just because you don't look at them does not mean they don't exist.

FrankMo
I did go to the link and it showed similar wording as to PRO-GUN positions.
So you are saying that PRO-GUN positions are bad if the Russians copy them?
Or are you just saying that PRO-GUN positions are always bad?

Your work here never started because you have yet to make an actual cognizant point.
Playing the part of a drunk confused poster does not help ones argument.
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Originally Posted by carlosdanger aka RozaShanina View Post
Weiner is in jail for doing much less than Kavanaugh or your Dear Leader Trump have done and they are walking around free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
ORANGE MAN BAD

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  #215  
Old 01-18-2019, 2:41 PM
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One thing that me and anti gunners have in common:

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"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- Dianne Feinstein
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  #216  
Old 01-18-2019, 6:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nguyen View Post
One thing that me and anti gunners have in common:

I don't get it!
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  #217  
Old 01-19-2019, 5:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
Playing the part of a drunk confused poster does not help ones argument.
Two words: Maria Butina.

Thanks for playing, boys. Seeyou next time. >hic<

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Old 01-19-2019, 6:05 AM
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So, a spy, Maria Butina tried, unsuccessfully to romance the NRA and that's a Russian conspiracy. Perhaps on the Russian side but not the NRA'S.
It was a great way to smear the NRA, I'll give them that, but I ask if the Chinese could successfully get an agent to chauffeur Diane Feinstein around, part all.of the U.S. intelligence vetting, can you really blame the NRA if they got gulled a bit by the Russians?
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Old 01-19-2019, 12:08 PM
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if the Chinese could successfully get an agent to chauffeur Diane Feinstein around, part all.of the U.S. intelligence vetting, can you really blame the NRA if they got gulled a bit by the Russians?
Woah, woah, woha there.... that sounds an awful lot like logic. That's not allowed in this thread.
DiFi is a chinese agent, confirmed!
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Old 01-19-2019, 6:10 PM
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Two words: Maria Butina.

Thanks for playing, boys. Seeyou next time. >hic<

FrankMo
You mean the Russian Agent that the Obama Administration let into the country so she could attempt to infiltrate and discredit conservative organizations? Maybe that was part of the "more flexibility" that Obama told Putin he would have after he was reelected.
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Old 01-20-2019, 12:41 AM
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You mean the Russian Agent that the Obama Administration let into the country so she could attempt to infiltrate and discredit conservative organizations? Maybe that was part of the "more flexibility" that Obama told Putin he would have after he was reelected.

Yup here is his exact words !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mgQaFlo_p8

wheres mueller? wheres the FBI ?
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