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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 02-11-2019, 9:54 PM
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Default Using a Gun WITHOUT a CCW

I've searched and couldn't find anything. I was wondering if civilian A carrying a gun illegally, shoots bad guy B justifiably what would happen to Civilian A? Of course in today's day there's no reason not to have an LTC but still, I was curious.
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:00 PM
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It depends on... everything. Case by case, a hundred variables come into play. There is no one answer.
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:12 PM
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But, sticking to just the narrow question of non-felon, no CCW, use a gun in public in a righteous self-defense incident, it's mostly going to be highly affected by where the incident occurs.

Carry in public without CCW is a misdemeanor anywhere in CA.

Los Angeles and San Francisco would seem to promise a different reaction than one might expect in Chico or Blythe.
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post

Los Angeles and San Francisco would seem to promise a different reaction than one might expect in Chico or Blythe.
Lol no kidding.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:36 AM
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Think I'd rather be alive and in trouble than dead and in "compliance".
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Carry in public without CCW is a misdemeanor anywhere in CA.
......unless one meets the exceptions in PC12027.... namely section g...
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12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

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Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DentonandSasquatchShow View Post
Think I'd rather be alive and in trouble than dead and in "compliance".
Certainly... but what about when you're caught carrying illegally when there was no threat to life?

I think anyone would carry if they KNEW their life would be in danger... but the idea is carrying just in case your life may become endangered at some point.
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Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
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Old 02-12-2019, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post



I think anyone would carry if they KNEW their life would be in danger... but the idea is carrying just in case your life may become endangered at some point.
Perfectly stated. This is the real starting point.

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Old 02-12-2019, 8:11 AM
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I know a couple people that carry without permits. To a man their theory is if they shoot someone that was trying to kill them, "charge me with carrying a concealed weapon" and they'll pay the fine or whatever. If the shooting is justified, then the lack of a permit doesn't change that.

This is their theory, not that I disagree. For me it was just easier to get the permit and not stress over accidentally exposing my weapon in public.
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Old 02-12-2019, 8:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
......unless one meets the exceptions in PC12027.... namely section g...
Hmmmm. Don't see a PC 12027 in the code. Is that a pre-2012 renumbering code?

Edit: It is. New code is PC 25640.
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Old 02-12-2019, 8:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
I know a couple people that carry without permits. To a man their theory is if they shoot someone that was trying to kill them, "charge me with carrying a concealed weapon" and they'll pay the fine or whatever. If the shooting is justified, then the lack of a permit doesn't change that.

This is their theory, not that I disagree. For me it was just easier to get the permit and not stress over accidentally exposing my weapon in public.
Unless of course they are caught carrying during some other random event and the DA suggests 15 different charges and a lengthy and expensive court battle or a plea deal of 1 year probation and loss of 2A for 10 years.

Which is a scenario that plays itself out often in California.
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Old 02-12-2019, 8:42 AM
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Ask Bernhard Goetz from 1984 NY subway shooting...may help answer your question...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_N...ubway_shooting
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Old 02-12-2019, 8:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
Certainly... but what about when you're caught carrying illegally when there was no threat to life?

I think anyone would carry if they KNEW their life would be in danger... but the idea is carrying just in case your life may become endangered at some point.
Pretty sure that’s what CCW is for. Legal or not.
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Old 02-12-2019, 8:46 AM
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OP statement about easy to get (no reason not to have in todays day) ltc complete fud. Only if you are in county that allows it. Does OP have one?
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Old 02-12-2019, 9:08 AM
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It depends on how the District Attorney charges a person.
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Old 02-12-2019, 9:15 AM
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Civil suits by the bad guys family is where I would be more concerned.
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Old 02-12-2019, 9:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
Certainly... but what about when you're caught carrying illegally when there was no threat to life?

I think anyone would carry if they KNEW their life would be in danger... but the idea is carrying just in case your life may become endangered at some point.
I suppose it's the risk you take if you're that concerned about your safety.

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Old 02-12-2019, 9:44 AM
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I suppose it's the risk you take if you're that concerned about your safety.

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Yes sir... and second time is a felony...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

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Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
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Old 02-12-2019, 9:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Carry in public without CCW is a misdemeanor anywhere in CA.
Is that a prohibiting misdemeanor, given there are no additional charges? (i.e. do they take away your gun(s) for an amount of time?)
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Old 02-12-2019, 9:57 AM
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Also, I would like to point out. Say you get pulled over and for some reason or other there is a reason to search you. There is your first offence right there.

You would be better off carrying a pocket knife, mace, or any other type of self defense items that are legal for all. So unless you have a reason to fear that your safety or that of your families is in danger, I would opt for the other items.
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Old 02-12-2019, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
Certainly... but what about when you're caught carrying illegally when there was no threat to life?

I think anyone would carry if they KNEW their life would be in danger... but the idea is carrying just in case your life may become endangered at some point.
yup, simply put in a sentence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
OP statement about easy to get (no reason not to have in todays day) ltc complete fud. Only if you are in county that allows it. Does OP have one?
Who know? maybe I do maybe I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
......unless one meets the exceptions in PC12027.... namely section g...
Is section g the second offense being a felony?
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
......unless one meets the exceptions in PC12027.... namely section g...
So, how far can one stretch the "going to hunting or fishing expedition"? Shall I keep a pocket fisherman in my other pocket? Or perhaps be scouting for jackrabbits at all times?
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:22 AM
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Maybe a dismissal of the actual shoot by justifiable homicide, but potential bad news for carrying in the first place. An important factor would be whether the gun is registered to Civilian A or not. Carrying without a permit is ill-advised, carrying a gun not registered to the carrier is even iller-advised.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaffiD View Post
Is that a prohibiting misdemeanor, given there are no additional charges? (i.e. do they take away your gun(s) for an amount of time?)
Oddly, no, that misdemeanor is not on the list of prohibiting crimes. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/prohibcatmisd.pdf

One could expect the gun in question to be seized.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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Old 02-12-2019, 1:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Unless of course they are caught carrying during some other random event and the DA suggests 15 different charges and a lengthy and expensive court battle or a plea deal of 1 year probation and loss of 2A for 10 years.

Which is a scenario that plays itself out often in California.
Exactly, which is a perfect reason to have a permit in the counties that make it possible. Like I was alluding to, something like accidental exposure leading to a MWAG call and all the crap that comes after it.

But for people that live in LA county, the choice might not be so clear.
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Old 02-12-2019, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Unless of course they are caught carrying during some other random event and the DA suggests 15 different charges and a lengthy and expensive court battle or a plea deal of 1 year probation and loss of 2A for 10 years.

Which is a scenario that plays itself out often in California.
Really? That's messed up. I think it's fair to say, while I'm sure it happens, it happens a lot less in the OC (at least that has been my understanding).

Quote:
Originally Posted by E Michael View Post
Civil suits by the bad guys family is where I would be more concerned.
Good point
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Old 02-12-2019, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnk518 View Post
I've searched and couldn't find anything. I was wondering if civilian A carrying a gun illegally, shoots bad guy B justifiably what would happen to Civilian A? Of course in today's day there's no reason not to have an LTC but still, I was curious.
There have been people in the past that have illegally carried and been involved in a justified shooting. Although cleared of homicide/assault with deadly weapon charges, they were still convicted of illegally carrying.


Conceal carry without a valid permit: (first time being caught)
A. Of an unloaded registered handgun = one misdemeanor [PC 25400(c)(7)]
B. Of an unloaded unregistered handgun = one felony [PC 25400(c)(6)]
C. Of a loaded registered handgun = two misdemeanors [PC 25400(c)(7) + 25850(c)(7)]
D. Of a loaded unregistered handgun = two felonies [PC 25400(c)(6) + 25850(c)(6)]

Felony conviction = lifetime ban on possession/ownership of firearms/ammunition
Misdemeanor conviction = 5 year ban on possession/ownership of firearms/ammunition as condition of probation

Regardless if the handgun is registered or not, it is confiscated as evidence and typically destroyed.
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Old 02-14-2019, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Misdemeanor conviction = 5 year ban on possession/ownership of firearms/ammunition as condition of probation
Is this always the case or just some DA's put that in there?
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Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
Quote:
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Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
There have been people in the past that have illegally carried and been involved in a justified shooting. Although cleared of homicide/assault with deadly weapon charges, they were still convicted of illegally carrying.


Conceal carry without a valid permit: (first time being caught)
A. Of an unloaded registered handgun = one misdemeanor [PC 25400(c)(7)]
B. Of an unloaded unregistered handgun = one felony [PC 25400(c)(6)]
C. Of a loaded registered handgun = two misdemeanors [PC 25400(c)(7) + 25850(c)(7)]
D. Of a loaded unregistered handgun = two felonies [PC 25400(c)(6) + 25850(c)(6)]

Felony conviction = lifetime ban on possession/ownership of firearms/ammunition
Misdemeanor conviction = 5 year ban on possession/ownership of firearms/ammunition as condition of probation

Regardless if the handgun is registered or not, it is confiscated as evidence and typically destroyed.

For the case we're talking about it's not illegal.


26045. (a) Nothing in Section 25850 is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that any person or the property of any person is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Regardless if the handgun is registered or not, it is confiscated as evidence and typically destroyed.
Reason #2 to carry a Glock.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:41 AM
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:00 AM
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Each crime will be considered independently as Quiet noted.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:12 AM
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LA county has counties nearby that are much favorable regarding CCW. If you are so concerned, move to there. When I bought my house, one of the main considerations, third place after price and school rating, was the ability to get CCW.
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Old 02-14-2019, 1:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igs View Post
For the case we're talking about it's not illegal.


26045. (a) Nothing in Section 25850 is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that any person or the property of any person is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property.
Not so fast - you also need (c)
Quote:
(c) As used in this section, “immediate” means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance.
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...ctionNum=26045.

Likely would go to trial.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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Old 02-14-2019, 1:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DentonandSasquatchShow View Post
Think I'd rather be alive and in trouble than dead and in "compliance".
"I got the Sig on my hip with an extra clip
I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six."

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Old 02-14-2019, 2:01 PM
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Without going into specific details, my brother lost his gun rights for 10 years due to him pulling a gun an aggressive, threatening guy.

- My brother goes into a laundry mat to wash his clothes.
- Gets into a verbal altercation with a gentleman. The guy was threatening my bro with bodily harm (witnesses backed my brother).
- my brother leaves , trying to diffuse the situation.
-Aggressor drives to back of laundry mat where my brother is at and reves his engine at him, mimicking like he will run him over.
- my brother goes to his car and grabs his handgun.
- aggressor opens door, pulls a knife and continues to threaten my bro.
- my bro runs up on him, points gun at his rib cage and takes knife away from him.
- my bro calls the police and tells his story. He (bro) is attested basically self incriminating himself by saying he pulled a gun on the guy.
- is charged with Assault W/ Deadly Weapon.
- takes plea deal: probation with no firearms for 10 years.
- aggressor is not charged , probably undocumented
- biggest bombshell: CCTV was able to prove my brothers side of the story .
Yet my brother was charged cause he used a firearm to defend himself and not having a CCW

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Old 02-14-2019, 2:28 PM
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Salinas 'good Samaritan' will not face any charges

SALINAS, Calif. —A man who shot two would-be robbers while they were holding up a Salinas restaurant at gunpoint, and was described as a "good Samaritan" by police, will not face any criminal charges, prosecutors said Friday.

On Oct. 4, 2012, two 17-year-old boys were holding Saltillo Tortilleria customers and employees at gunpoint at 1590 North Sanborn Rd. when a man walked in and shot Jose Antonio Ceja and the second boy in the chest.

Ceja was killed, and the second boy survived.

The Monterey County District Attorney's Office said its investigation concluded that the 36-year-old "good Samaritan" acted in the defense of others.

Acting in the "defense of others" is similar to acting in "self defense" under California law. You must honestly and reasonably believe that another person is about to suffer serious bodily harm or death. If that is the case, and you use only enough force reasonably to counter the attack, you will be absolved of any criminal liability.

Police and prosecutors declined to release the name of the "good Samaritan" on Friday.

As the robbery was unfolding, the "good Samaritan" drove up because he was supposed to pick up a friend who was eating inside Saltillo Tortilleria.

"A good Samaritan saw what was happening from outside the business," police Sgt. Christopher Lane said. "The good Samaritan retrieved a gun from his vehicle and went to help the victims inside. As the good Samaritan entered the business, (the good Samaritan) feared for the safety of the victims, and shot both suspects."

While suffering from life-threatening gunshot wounds, the two injured boys fled from the restaurant and were gone before emergency crews arrived, Lane said. A half-hour later, someone drove the teenagers to Natividad Medical Center in a private vehicle, and Ceja was pronounced dead shortly after arriving.

The 36-year-old man legally owned his gun and properly stored it inside his car in accordance with California's gun laws, police said.
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  #38  
Old 02-14-2019, 2:32 PM
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johnk518 johnk518 is online now
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Originally Posted by Big Nasty View Post
Without going into specific details, my brother lost his gun rights for 10 years due to him pulling a gun an aggressive, threatening guy.

- My brother goes into a laundry mat to wash his clothes.
- Gets into a verbal altercation with a gentleman. The guy was threatening my bro with bodily harm (witnesses backed my brother).
- my brother leaves , trying to diffuse the situation.
-Aggressor drives to back of laundry mat where my brother is at and reves his engine at him, mimicking like he will run him over.
- my brother goes to his car and grabs his handgun.
- aggressor opens door, pulls a knife and continues to threaten my bro.
- my bro runs up on him, points gun at his rib cage and takes knife away from him.
- my bro calls the police and tells his story. He (bro) is attested basically self incriminating himself by saying he pulled a gun on the guy.
- is charged with Assault W/ Deadly Weapon.
- takes plea deal: probation with no firearms for 10 years.
- aggressor is not charged , probably undocumented
- biggest bombshell: CCTV was able to prove my brothers side of the story .
Yet my brother was charged cause he used a firearm to defend himself and not having a CCW
Actually, without the details I think he would have been charged even with a CCW.
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  #39  
Old 02-14-2019, 9:43 PM
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I've searched and couldn't find anything. I was wondering if civilian A carrying a gun illegally, shoots bad guy B justifiably what would happen to Civilian A? Of course in today's day there's no reason not to have an LTC but still, I was curious.

You'll be hung in the town square within 5 minutes of conviction, ESPECIALLY if you're an EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL racist, cracka-whitey, and the victims "was good boys - gettin' dey lives turned around"... and such...



Parents will change their kids names if they share yours. Liberal preachers & televangelists will use you as the BAD example in their sermons. Streets bearing your name will be bulldozed, even if people are still living in the houses on them. Nancy Pe-LOUSY will introduce a bill outlawing your name from ever being uttered again - Schmuckles will sponsor it in the senate. The sun will no longer shine on YOUR birthday, anywhere on the earth, by proclamation of Alexandria Occasional-Cortex. You will be buried in an unmarked grave in a dog park poopatorium. All the schools you attended will be burned to the ground. Any classmates annuals you signed, will be considered "hate" crimes. Whatever automobile companies cars you drove, will be forced out of business; any stamps you ever licked will be declared an EPA superfund hazmat site. Your children will be forced to wear a scarlet "A" the rest of their lives - your wife will be sold into slavery. Your neighbors will be charged with thought crimes against the state, for having dared to live next to you. All your property will be sold and given as reparations to Native Americans who lived on the land centuries ago. Your old clothes will be rejected from Goodwill, and your favorite pro sports franchises will be disbanded.


Then on Day 2, things will REALLY get ugly...
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Old 02-14-2019, 9:48 PM
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But, sticking to just the narrow question of non-felon, no CCW, use a gun in public in a righteous self-defense incident, it's mostly going to be highly affected by where the incident occurs.

Carry in public without CCW is a misdemeanor anywhere in CA.

Los Angeles and San Francisco would seem to promise a different reaction than one might expect in Chico or Blythe.


This would be spot on.

Someone said Blythe....now there’s a dump right there.
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