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  #1  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:00 AM
Christobol Christobol is offline
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Default Disclosure of CCW info, necessary?

A friend of mine is asking for advice regarding a situation with a girl he is dating and if he should disclose details of his CCW permit and good cause.

Short back story: This women is newly divorced, and has been harassed and stalked by her now ex-husband. In a recent incident, the ex-husband entered her fenced in backyard to spy on the couple. After my friend left, he texted her about the date, what they did etc, and the woman told the ex that her boyfriend is a CCW holder and carries a gun and to leave them alone. She filed a temporary restraining order the following day.

The ex has a history of hacking into her old boyfriend's online accounts (before marriage) and after filing for the divorce placing a GPS tracker on her car to find the guy she started dating to confront the two of them.

Now the ex wants to know the name of my friend, and is demanding to know the details of the CCW, his job and reasons for obtaining the permit.

Her lawyer also wants to have the reasons for the CCW permit, in case it comes up during the formal restraining hearing. Currently my friend is totally anonymous.

My inclination is to not give the woman any additional information as
1) he didn't do anything questionable and doesn't have any interaction with the ex
2) the ex could use the information about my friend to begin to harass and stalk him
3) the details of the permit are solely between the issuing agency and the permittee, and an outside person has no cause to know the details
4) actually admitting in writing that he has a CCW might be defined as intimidation and a violation of his permit
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:12 AM
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Don't disclose the information. Less is better. She shouldn't have told the ex about the CCW, but I get it, she wants to scare off the ex. Might be time for a new girlfriend. Imagine the cost for lawyer fees IF he has to use a pistol for self defense and IF he has to go to court. Have him read the book "The Law of Self Defense: The Indispensable Guide to the Armed Citizen" by Andrew Branca.
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:46 AM
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Tell your friend to move onto other fish in the sea
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:53 AM
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"Might be time for a new girlfriend."


Yep.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:00 PM
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Dump and move on....NOW.

Way too much crazy. Cant be all the ex, by the way.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
Dump and move on....NOW.

Way too much crazy. Cant be all the ex, by the way.
+1. There invariably are two sides to every situation.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:51 PM
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Where she is on the crazy scale will determine if she's worth the trouble:

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Old 12-10-2018, 1:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christobol View Post
and the woman told the ex that her boyfriend is a CCW holder and carries a gun and to leave them alone.
What everyone else said about dumping and moving on. But the above should be reason enough to get rid of her.
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Old 12-10-2018, 1:25 PM
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+1 for cut and run
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Old 12-10-2018, 1:41 PM
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the woman told the ex that her boyfriend is a CCW holder and carries a gun and to leave them alone.

WTF,

Pretty dumb thing to do, now it will be a part of her divorce proceedings forever. Wouldn't be surprised if her ex's lawyer doesn't present that as a threat.

this is why I never tell friends/relatives I have a CCW (Other then the wife and kids who are all trained in what to do and what not to say)

Your friend was careless to even tell her (did he think it made him look cool) and really has no good choice now but to move on. She has shown she can't be trusted to keep it secret.

Lesson here is never tell someone your dating you carry. It is completely possible to date someone and even get intimate without them ever knowing you carry. I know plenty of people guys and gals who do. Figure it out.
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Old 12-10-2018, 1:47 PM
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Gotta agree with most everyone else, time to move on. She sounds like more trouble than she is worth, and I don't see a happy ending to this story at all.

Now to the question, he is under no legal obligation to provide anything to her or her attorney. He is not seeking the order she is. If she named him in her complaint also, well there's another reason to cut ties. The last thing he wants is his name on a restraining order no matter what. Those tend to have unintended consequences, like the ex also getting one against her and him for the veiled threat that he carries a gun.
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Old 12-10-2018, 2:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
the woman told the ex that her boyfriend is a CCW holder and carries a gun and to leave them alone.
Lesson here is never tell someone your dating you carry. It is completely possible to date someone and even get intimate without them ever knowing you carry. I know plenty of people guys and gals who do. Figure it out.
I don't know what he was thinking. Though I'm not sure how long that can be hidden when you're spending the night at each other's house.

I agree in the opinion in there isn't an obligation to disclose anything, and I can't think of a single positive reason for saying anything.
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Old 12-10-2018, 2:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
[...snip...
Your friend was careless to even tell her (did he think it made him look cool) and really has no good choice now but to move on. She has shown she can't be trusted to keep it secret.

Lesson here is never tell someone your dating you carry. It is completely possible to date someone and even get intimate without them ever knowing you carry. I know plenty of people guys and gals who do. Figure it out.
You know, he might not have said anything. She might have figured it out when he took off his pants for the date that has already been mentioned.

I think we need to see a pic of the girl before we give the OP advice

But I admit, I am leaning towards RUN and RUN AWAY FAST
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Old 12-10-2018, 2:25 PM
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Right on page 11 of the CCW application for CA is a notice of public records act use of the info in the application. So if her lawyer wants to get the application, s/he likely can.

But I do not see the boyfriend having a CCW being an issue with the TRO as its against the ex relative to the woman. Or is the TRO going to cover the boyfriend as the victim also?
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Old 12-10-2018, 2:27 PM
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So she made up a story to scare her ex. That's all I would disclose. In the mean time, she tried to use your buddy as a weapon to threaten her ex, that's not cool. For that reason alone, I say run and don't look back. I would not tell her or anyone else his name, good cause, employer or any other personal info. It has NOTHING to do with their divorce and is no one's business.
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Old 12-10-2018, 6:53 PM
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Don't give up any information until legally required to.

And probably time for your friend to separate himself from that drama.
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Old 12-10-2018, 7:14 PM
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Old 12-10-2018, 7:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
Dump and move on....NOW.

Way too much crazy. Cant be all the ex, by the way.

+13 on this. Your friend is at that point where his next few decisions, while they do not seem it at the time, are perhaps some of the most important in his life.
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Old 12-10-2018, 7:34 PM
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+13 on this. Your friend is at that point where his next few decisions, while they do not seem it at the time, are perhaps some of the most important in his life.

+14, just not worth inserting yourself into that mix.
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Old 12-10-2018, 8:15 PM
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Yeah, right, your friend.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:19 AM
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Tell your friend.

Divorces and ROs oft times become legal duels. X.... stalks, harasses, bugs, intimidates her.

She gets RO.

Which triggers X to do same. Who now knows that "new guy" has CCW. And X chick has made veiled threat regarding same.

X adds "new guy" to the RO he files mentioning "veiled threat of gun violence" as reason.

In order to err on the side of caution, good chance Judge will grant RO because of "gun violence threat".

BINGO.................New guy now no longer has CCW.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:49 AM
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As everyone else has stated, tell your friend to GTFO of there immediately. I know that can be hard because most of us think with our lower brain, but there are plenty of girls out there with less baggage. I used to date this crazy girl that almost got me into fights in bars/clubs TWICE because she would tell some random guy that her boyfriend (me) could kick his azz. Fortunately both times the other guy realized how crazy she was and we bro hugged and went our separate ways lol.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Tell your friend.

Divorces and ROs oft times become legal duels. X.... stalks, harasses, bugs, intimidates her.

She gets RO.

Which triggers X to do same. Who now knows that "new guy" has CCW. And X chick has made veiled threat regarding same.

X adds "new guy" to the RO he files mentioning "veiled threat of gun violence" as reason.

In order to err on the side of caution, good chance Judge will grant RO because of "gun violence threat".

BINGO.................New guy now no longer has CCW.
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Old 12-11-2018, 6:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
Dump and move on....NOW.

Way too much crazy. Cant be all the ex, by the way.
This. Drama doesn't just happen. You must want it.
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Old 12-11-2018, 6:08 AM
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Get out and just go see BigPimping. After his recent video, stay away from his value line however.
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Old 12-11-2018, 7:44 AM
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Time to move on. "Recently divorced". She is using your friend to get back at her ex. He is known to be creepy. With info about the CCW the ex will come prepared to deal with it. The ex likes to confront the new boy toys so there will be an issue.

Tell him to move along.
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Old 12-11-2018, 9:50 AM
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Since she married this guy she obviously makes bad decisions. Your friend needs to move on pronto. Crazy and CCW don't mix.
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:17 AM
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If the threat of the gun works and the dude vanishes great, if not your buddy could be in for a world of shyt.

If the dude files for a restraining order against your friend he'll have to give up all his guns & ammo immediately, then petition the court to prove his innocence before he can get them back. And his guns & ammo can't just be given to a buddy to hold, they go to the cops or an FFL for storage that he has to pay for, or sell them to an FFL. No idea what'll happen regarding his CCW, I assume it'll be suspended, hopefully only 'till he gets cleared by a judge.

He doesn't need to dump the girl, tho he probably should, but he needs to not be seen with her by her X. If she uses FB or similar she should post that they've broken up and tell all her friends the same. The X will likely find out and maybe not put pressure on your buddy.
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:44 AM
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Find a new GF. This one has way to much baggage
He's just asking for trouble.
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:50 AM
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I bet this is one of those my friend is actually me question.. haha, yeah fully agree with everyone a new chick is not worth that much potential trouble.

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Old 12-11-2018, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
You know, he might not have said anything. She might have figured it out when he took off his pants for the date that has already been mentioned.

I think we need to see a pic of the girl before we give the OP advice

But I admit, I am leaning towards RUN and RUN AWAY FAST
Seriously Dude, if you can't take off your pants without exposing your firearm you need to train more.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
Tell your friend to move onto other fish in the sea
This. He needs to get away from that situation all together.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:11 PM
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If you want to stay with her, I suggest she get a CCW and tell her that if anyone asks, she doesn't know if you have a CCW, and it's rude to ask because asking about a man's self-defense is the same as asking a woman about her age.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Seriously Dude, if you can't take off your pants without exposing your firearm you need to train more.
I thought the point of taking your pants off in front of a girl was to show her your gun... whether its a .22short or a .50BMG???
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Old 12-11-2018, 1:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Seriously Dude, if you can't take off your pants without exposing your firearm you need to train more.
No I don't need to train more. I am not paranoid and see no reason to carry a firearm, so the only thing I am showing a girl when I take my pants off is my gun, not a firearm. Even if I lived in a another county where CCW is allowed (its not where I am) I would not carry.

Maybe if I lived in Chicago or like that I might feel the need to carry, but in the areas I frequent in Calif. and elsewhere, I am just not that paranoid. There are parts of L.A. where if I lived there, I might consider it, but I really doubt I would carry even then. I have been in areas where I was extremely uncomfortable but I try to avoid them.

So I go back to saying, maybe she saw both his gun and his firearm when he took his pants off.
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Old 12-11-2018, 2:01 PM
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So if I am reading this correct, if you had a permit for a CCW and we're going into one of your extremely uncomfortable areas you still would not carry?? If that is the case then wish you the best.

If I have a permit for a CCW and going anywhere with my family I WOULD carry due to the fact there are a lot of crazy people out that just want to hurt or kill people and I would do anything in my power to keep my family safe. Just my .02¢
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Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
No I don't need to train more. I am not paranoid and see no reason to carry a firearm, so the only thing I am showing a girl when I take my pants off is my gun, not a firearm. Even if I lived in a another county where CCW is allowed (its not where I am) I would not carry.

Maybe if I lived in Chicago or like that I might feel the need to carry, but in the areas I frequent in Calif. and elsewhere, I am just not that paranoid. There are parts of L.A. where if I lived there, I might consider it, but I really doubt I would carry even then. I have been in areas where I was extremely uncomfortable but I try to avoid them.

So I go back to saying, maybe she saw both his gun and his firearm when he took his pants off.
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Old 12-11-2018, 2:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
No I don't need to train more. I am not paranoid and see no reason to carry a firearm, so the only thing I am showing a girl when I take my pants off is my gun, not a firearm. Even if I lived in a another county where CCW is allowed (its not where I am) I would not carry.

Maybe if I lived in Chicago or like that I might feel the need to carry, but in the areas I frequent in Calif. and elsewhere, I am just not that paranoid. There are parts of L.A. where if I lived there, I might consider it, but I really doubt I would carry even then. I have been in areas where I was extremely uncomfortable but I try to avoid them.
I must be paranoid cause I carry everywhere, and I live in white-bread Rocklin.

I have lived for 58 years and never needed a firearm for self defense. I hope I live the rest of my life and never need a firearm for self defense. But I'll be damned if I don't have one when the need arises. You can avoid "those areas" all you want, but unless you are a recluse, there is crazy everywhere.
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Old 12-11-2018, 2:25 PM
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I am not going to into a debate on CCW, sorry guys.

I don't feel the need, but I will fight for your right to if you feel the need.

Most of the time, my guns at home are UNloaded and locked in the safe. I really only take one out of the safe and load it a few times a year, like last year during the fires when I thought I might be evacuated or when there was a rash of breakin's in our neighborhood I had a loaded gun in the house for the 3 weeks until they caught the guy, then back in the safe unloaded it went. I have a lockbox bolted to the nightstand by the bed, its usually empty, but sometimes I will put a 1911 or SIG or Colt SAA in it depending on what is going on.

That is me, I just don't see the need to CCW or have a loaded weapon at all times, but if you do that is fine with me, I will defend your right to. As an FYI my daughter has at all times a loaded weapon in her apt., I think its silly, but I paid for her training to be as safe as possible with it and I took the training with her. She and I go to the range on average twice a month, we shoot a lot and have fun.
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Old 12-11-2018, 6:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Tell your friend.

Divorces and ROs oft times become legal duels. X.... stalks, harasses, bugs, intimidates her.

She gets RO.

Which triggers X to do same. Who now knows that "new guy" has CCW. And X chick has made veiled threat regarding same.

X adds "new guy" to the RO he files mentioning "veiled threat of gun violence" as reason.

In order to err on the side of caution, good chance Judge will grant RO because of "gun violence threat".

BINGO.................New guy now no longer has CCW.
Needs to be quoted again to drive the point home.
"Your friend" is in extremely real danger of becoming a prohibited person at least temporarily.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #40  
Old 12-11-2018, 6:58 PM
Citadelgrad87's Avatar
Citadelgrad87 Citadelgrad87 is online now
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Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
No I don't need to train more. I am not paranoid and see no reason to carry a firearm, so the only thing I am showing a girl when I take my pants off is my gun, not a firearm. Even if I lived in a another county where CCW is allowed (its not where I am) I would not carry.

Maybe if I lived in Chicago or like that I might feel the need to carry, but in the areas I frequent in Calif. and elsewhere, I am just not that paranoid. There are parts of L.A. where if I lived there, I might consider it, but I really doubt I would carry even then. I have been in areas where I was extremely uncomfortable but I try to avoid them.

So I go back to saying, maybe she saw both his gun and his firearm when he took his pants off.
Do you wear a seat belt when in a car? Why? Are you paranoid? Do you have life insurance? Why? Smoke detectors?

One doesn't have to be paranoid to carry a firearm.

One does have to wonder, though, about the animosity toward ccw by someone posting on a firearms interest site. I don't mean your lip service about fighting for my rights, I mean the scornful "I'm not paranoid enough " garbage.
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Print it out and frame it for all I care
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I don't need to think at all..
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You are talking to someone who already won this lame conversation, not a brick a wall. Too bad you don't realize it.
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Unfortunately for you, I have the truth on my side and... I’m definitely better than you at what you make a living from.
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Last edited by Citadelgrad87; 12-11-2018 at 7:00 PM..
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