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  #1  
Old 11-08-2019, 9:01 AM
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Default shipping to a non FFL gunsmith

62 year old Marlin 39A, has a takedown knurl knob which splits the rifle into two pieces. Half of the receiver, lever, barrel and forearm and half of the receiver and stock.
1. Can I (not an ffl) send it to a non ffl gunsmith in or out of California for work as a whole unit?
2. Can I send it in two pieces in two separate boxes? If so, can the two boxes be taped together as in one unit?
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Old 11-08-2019, 9:09 AM
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You cannot send the firearm to a non FFL. You can send everything but the serialized receiver. I am not sure which half that is since the gun literally splits apart right down the middle of the receiver, but I am assuming it is the part with the buttstock (right side?) since that holds all the trigger/hammer group components.

The only way you could have a non-FFL work on the gun if the receiver was present, is if you personally took it there and personally stayed there with it the whole time while all work was done.
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Old 11-08-2019, 9:18 AM
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A gunsmith who hasn't gotten an FFL is putting himself in jeopardy if he is working on guns without the customer present.
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Old 11-08-2019, 12:38 PM
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Not meaning to hijack the thread, but... what about a curio/relic firearm that doesn't have a serial number? Same limitation on gunsmith needing a FFL to work on the curio/relic firearm?
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Old 11-08-2019, 1:04 PM
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Originally Posted by aBrowningfan View Post
Not meaning to hijack the thread, but... what about a curio/relic firearm that doesn't have a serial number? Same limitation on gunsmith needing a FFL to work on the curio/relic firearm?
Yes, same limitation if the owner will not be present. The only firearm that would be exempt would be an antique, which typically means made before 1899.
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Old 11-08-2019, 1:06 PM
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Also note that even if the gunsmith has a C&R FFL that does not authorize him to engage in the business of gunsmithing, even for C&R firearms.
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Old 11-08-2019, 7:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel plate View Post
62 year old Marlin 39A, has a takedown knurl knob which splits the rifle into two pieces. Half of the receiver, lever, barrel and forearm and half of the receiver and stock.
1. Can I (not an ffl) send it to a non ffl gunsmith in or out of California for work as a whole unit?
2. Can I send it in two pieces in two separate boxes? If so, can the two boxes be taped together as in one unit?
You cannot send the firearm to a non FFL. You can send everything but the serialized receiver. I am not sure which half that is since the gun literally splits apart right down the middle of the receiver, but I am assuming it is the part with the buttstock (right side?) since that holds all the trigger/hammer group components.

The only way you could have a non-FFL work on the gun if the receiver was present, is if you personally took it there and personally stayed there with it the whole time while all work was done.
What he said.


Also for CA...
In order to legally be a "gunsmith", the person needs to be a FFL (Type 01 or 07). [PC 16630]


Penal Code 16630
As used in this part, “gunsmith” means any person who is licensed as a dealer pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, who is engaged primarily in the business of repairing firearms, or making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or the agent or employee of that person.
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:17 PM
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No serial number. I'd argue shipped in 2 packages it is parts. Sure we all know the receiver is the gun but what about a Ruger MK pistol where the serial number is on the barrel assembly. Of course it's your call but there are 100s of horror stories and no recourse when a non FFL works on your gun. Final point is it is not legal for him to ship it back to you. He legally has to ship it to an FFL who will charge you a receiving fee and a dros fee as well as making you wait 10 days to get your gun back.
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Old 11-09-2019, 7:12 AM
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No serial number. I'd argue shipped in 2 packages it is parts. Sure we all know the receiver is the gun but what about a Ruger MK pistol where the serial number is on the barrel assembly. Of course it's your call but there are 100s of horror stories and no recourse when a non FFL works on your gun. Final point is it is not legal for him to ship it back to you. He legally has to ship it to an FFL who will charge you a receiving fee and a dros fee as well as making you wait 10 days to get your gun back.
Just for reference, the stock and lever half side have a full serial number on the bottom tang and the barrel half side has a partial matching serial number inside the receiver.
Since I already DROSed the rifle are you saying that I would have to reDROS it again plus another ten day wait?
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Old 11-09-2019, 7:17 AM
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M1NM is incorrect. Even a pre-1968 gun without a serial number is a firearm under the law and can only be shipped to a gunsmith with a type 1 or 7 FFL (possibly a pawnbroker FFL also but I would have to look that up). You can ship it to an FFL gunsmith and the gunsmith can ship it directly back to you without a DROS.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel plate View Post
Just for reference, the stock and lever half side have a full serial number on the bottom tang and the barrel half side has a partial matching serial number inside the receiver.
Since I already DROSed the rifle are you saying that I would have to reDROS it again plus another ten day wait?
If you *did* ship it to a non FFL gunsmith (which as noted would be illegal), then technically yes it would need to be DROSd back to you.

This is why you don't send it to a non-FFL gunsmith. If you do it the right way and use a FFL gunsmith, then it can be shipped directly back to your door, legally.
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Old 11-11-2019, 9:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
You cannot send the firearm to a non FFL. You can send everything but the serialized receiver. I am not sure which half that is since the gun literally splits apart right down the middle of the receiver, but I am assuming it is the part with the buttstock (right side?) since that holds all the trigger/hammer group components.
The only way you could have a non-FFL work on the gun if the receiver was present, is if you personally took it there and personally stayed there with it the whole time while all work was done.
You're correct about the placement of the whole one letter and five digit serial number on the buttstock receiver half but that half of the rifle doesn't need to be worked on, just the left side receiver barrel half that has only a partial last three digit serial number probably for matching purposes so would that be legal to ship within California without using an FFL on either end as in shipping as gun parts only?
The reason I keep chipping away on this is because I have been in numerous email contact with him including photos and a wealth of knowledgeable advice in return but unfortunately he lives quite a distance from me and I don't think I have the skills to do the work.
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Old 11-11-2019, 9:40 AM
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If you only have to send the left side and barrel I'd say you are just fine to send it.
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Old 11-11-2019, 9:42 AM
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A thorough gunsmith will want to test fire the entire gun, and I would simply find an FFL gunsmith with experience in these and Mail it to him (or her as the case may be). We can provide recommendations.
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Old 11-11-2019, 1:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel plate View Post
...1. Can I (not an ffl) send it to a non ffl gunsmith in or out of California for work as a whole unit?...
Short answer is "no" as others have said.

But remember as well that shipping a gun to anyone is a transfer (of possession, even if not of ownership).
  • In California any transfer of possession of a gun to another person (with a few exceptions which are applicable here) must go through an FFL.

  • Under federal law, shipping a gun to anyone, other than an FFL, in another State (with an exception not applicable here) is a federal crime, both for the shipper and the recipient. The shipper violates 18 USC 922(a)(5); and the recipient violates 18 USC 922(a)(3). The violations are punishable by up to five years in federal prison (and would include a lifetime loss of gun rights).
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milsurp1 View Post
A thorough gunsmith will want to test fire the entire gun, and I would simply find an FFL gunsmith with experience in these and Mail it to him (or her as the case may be). We can provide recommendations.
It depends on the repair. Replaced trigger springs probably wouldn't require test firing. Reduce trigger pull weight likewise probably wouldn't require test firing. Repaired/replaced side ribs on an O/U shotgun would definitely require a test fire to confirm the patterning is in spec. And, and, and.
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