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#241
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Especially considering that I, Spyder, have NOT changed what I meant, OR what I said, a single time in this thread. I asked a very simple question and was answered with a bunch of nonsensical and non applicable assumptions. |
#242
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Pasadena police spokesman busted for off-roster sales
This thread delivers. Me being new to 2A, i didn't know the history of the relationship that the LE orgs had with the start and enforcement of the PRK roster. I understand the laws, and the politics of how we got here, better due to the context brought in here. I also personally know a couple of LEOs that don't agree with the roster or the anti-2A environment we live in. But I never asked them to sell me an off roster item, and I'm glad I didn't.
As an individual, I'm glad to have acquired an offroster item, just because damnit I should be able to. Overall, it's a damn shame that the roster exists. This LE officer, being in a public highly visible role, will hopefully (I can hope) be a test case to point out the stupidity and unconstitutionality of the roster.
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this is a signature Last edited by 357manny; 05-11-2017 at 4:53 PM.. |
#244
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Since he is a LEO, I wouldn't find any of these concerns to be unreasonable. In terms of a non-LEO, a different standard may apply. For me personally it would come down to either an honest mistake, or a willful intention to violate the law AND profit from that. We all here agree the law is CRAP, but we all have to follow that law or we are doing so at our own risk... they call those people "outlaws". And again, I may personally not have a issue with even that, but we all understand that if that is the choice, then nobody should complain when they get caught and are faced to pay the consequences of that. Quote:
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Personally I don't see too many people looking to make a profit trying to set themselves up as a martyr for a cause. That usually isn't what gets them going in the first place. |
#245
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Wondering if changes to PC 32000 via AB 2165 (Bonta)... have relevance to this officers situation. And how the changes effect off-roster PPTs, sold by LEOs...
32000. (a) A person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends an unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year. (b) This section shall not apply to any of the following: (1) The manufacture in this state, or importation into this state, of a prototype handgun when the manufacture or importation is for the sole purpose of allowing an independent laboratory certified by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 32010 to conduct an independent test to determine whether that handgun is prohibited by Sections 31900 to 32110, inclusive, and, if not, allowing the department to add the firearm to the roster of handguns that may be sold in this state pursuant to Section 32015. (2) The importation or lending of a handgun by employees or authorized agents of entities determining whether the weapon is prohibited by this section. (3) Firearms listed as curios or relics, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations. (4) The sale or purchase of a handgun, if the handgun is sold to, or purchased by, the Department of Justice, a police department, a sheriff’s official, a marshal’s office, the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, the Department of the California Highway Patrol, any district attorney’s office, any federal law enforcement agency, or the military or naval forces of this state or of the United States for use in the discharge of their official duties. This section does not prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies of a handgun. (5) The sale, purchase, or delivery of a handgun, if the sale, purchase, or delivery of the handgun is made pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 10334 of the Public Contract Code. (6) Subject to the limitations set forth in subdivision (c), the sale or purchase of a handgun, if the handgun is sold to, or purchased by, any of the following entities or sworn members of these entities who have satisfactorily completed the firearms portion of a training course prescribed by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training pursuant to Section 832: (A) The Department of Parks and Recreation. (B) The Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control. (C) The Division of Investigation of the Department of Consumer Affairs. (D) The Department of Motor Vehicles. (E) The Fraud Division of the Department of Insurance. (F) The State Department of State Hospitals. (G) The Department of Fish and Wildlife. (H) The State Department of Developmental Services. (I) The Department of Forestry and Fire Protection. (J) A county probation department. (K) The Los Angeles World Airports, as defined in Section 830.15. (L) A K–12 public school district for use by a school police officer, as described in Section 830.32. (M) A municipal water district for use by a park ranger, as described in Section 830.34. (N) A county for use by a welfare fraud investigator or inspector, as described in Section 830.35. (O) A county for use by the coroner or the deputy coroner, as described in Section 830.35. (P) The Supreme Court and the courts of appeal for use by marshals of the Supreme Court and bailiffs of the courts of appeal, and coordinators of security for the judicial branch, as described in Section 830.36. (Q) A fire department or fire protection agency of a county, city, city and county, district, or the state for use by either of the following: (i) A member of an arson-investigating unit, regularly paid and employed in that capacity pursuant to Section 830.37. (ii) A member other than a member of an arson-investigating unit, regularly paid and employed in that capacity pursuant to Section 830.37. (R) The University of California Police Department, or the California State University Police Departments, as described in Section 830.2. (S) A California Community College police department, as described in Section 830.32. (c) (1) Notwithstanding Section 26825, a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, shall not process the sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun between a person who has obtained an unsafe handgun pursuant to an exemption specified in paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) and a person who is not exempt from the requirements of this section.
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oh this... It's a Single Cylinder - Single Stroke,
Internal Combustion Engine, with a Free Floating Piston... |
#246
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You can give peace a chance... We'll cover you if it doesn't work out... |
#247
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Nice to see a corrupt "more equal" caught in the web he helped create. Perhaps they'll be inclined to restore 2a rights to all citizens, not just those that conspire with the Government to remove ours, in return for the preservation of theirs.
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#248
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Snowballs chance in hell in CA. I expect the exact opposite. More restrictions for thenCA citizens while the protected class get more freedoms.
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#249
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Forget about the Second Amendment, what the hell happened to the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments?
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#250
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#251
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Those of us who pay for our own "benefits" and retirement see no distinction there.
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#252
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My Facebook news feeds were blowing up this morning with local papers reporting that he mainly sold off of Calguns. They had his user name and everything. Looks like we have some reporters in our midst.
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#253
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That would explain the increased level of stupidity lately.
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#255
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I am in a sympathy-free zone as well. A leftist brown shirt reaping what he sowed after profiting from it is sweet justice indeed.
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#256
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i guess he was a seller user only. cause i never saw that user name anywhere near the general discussion or off-topic.
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#257
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#258
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^^^^^^^ sig worthy ^^^^^^^
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#259
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What's wrong with the article? He even interviewed Chuck Michel, which is a lot more than most journalists would do.
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#260
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Can you point to the law which bars officers from making a profit on certain firearm sales? Can you point to the law which makes it illegal for an officer to buy and then resell an off-roster pistol solely to make a profit? Can you point to the law which makes it illegal to buy a firearm with the intention of selling it to someone else when you buy it? The issue is if you have a buyer lined up prior to purchase, but if you see a deal, there is nothing illegal about buying it with the intention to sell it. This makes the Chuck Michel quote incorrect. Can you point to the Federal law which requires the seller to go through a FFL to avoid breaking the law? Residents of different states are required to go through a FFL. CA law requires CA sellers/buyers to go through a FFL. So much false information, yet people don't see it.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#262
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This is the code section under which Ryan McGowan was convicted and it is probably the code section that will be used to charge Gourdikian. According to the Federal complaint, all of the above constitute dealing in firearms without a license. You may disagree, but your opinion, it might pain you to learn, carries a lot less weight than that of a Federal compliant in the eyes of a journalist or just about anyone else on the planet. The differences between what you list above and what are truly illegal are subtle ones, and it is revealed everyday here on Calguns that not even seasoned gun owners can properly understand them. Yet you expect dissection of complex legal minutiae in a newspaper article penned by a layman. You need to reset your expectations. Quote:
I think it's a pretty damned good article. The journalist, unlike 95% of his colleagues, actually did a little research and found the Calguns angle. That's newsworthy. He also provided a few details on the parallel case in Sacramento. And also unlike 95% of his colleagues, he called an NRA attorney to get some facts, instead of automatically speed dialing the VPC, which I suppose is what you would have preferred.
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#263
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On a pajama boy curve, it's decent.
Don't get it twisted though, plenty of "reporters" call NRA, if they get a non-generic response is another thing. They're constantly trolling for sound bites and other "gotchas." The sad part is, he probably spent hours putting that together and in the end, comes up a little short. That's not necessarily his fault, more like the nature of our nonsensical web of firearms law. |
#264
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#266
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I must've missed this when it first came up. It's greed, pure & simple. As others have mentioned, there are approximately ZERO LEOs flipping off-roster guns at cost cuz they love freedom. This guy was making BART janitor-level money, no reason to break the law hustling for extra.
The tax thing might be a big reason folks change their "for sale" threads to remove the price. "Though most of the listings were later edited to remove the price when a buyer was found, a tally of 21 posts in which the asking price remained totaled about $31,000." LT should've changed them all if he was trying to dodge taxes, though. But really I just wanted to say that Vasken Gourdikian is a great name for a movie villain, right up there with Keyser Soze. For general awesomeness, Ulysses S. Grant Early IV ain't bad neither.
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I meant, it is my opinion that... I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence I would advise violence. - M. Gandhi You're my kind of stupid. - M. Reynolds |
#267
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You can say that I might disagree, but since you did not bother to stay on topic, it does not matter and is completely bogus in an attempt to defend your position. It was mentioned that there was a law which bars OFFICERS from making a profit on CERTAIN FIREARMS. You really think that is true? If so, point out the law. It was mentioned that it is illegal for an OFFICER to buy and then RESELL an OFF-ROSTER pistol SOLELY to make a PROFIT. Which law is that? Yes, being an unlicensed dealer is illegal, but that has nothing to do with being an officer, off-roster firearms or a profit. It has to do with the NUMBER of firearms. Am officer can buy an off-roster firearm and decide that they don't like it and sell it for a profit and it is not illegal. Doing it multiple times is a different issue. There is no law which makes it illegal to buy a firearm with the INTENTION of selling it. If you are buying it for someone, it is illegal. This means that if you have a buyer lined up before you buy it, then it is illegal. If you see a good deal, it is not illegal. Quote:
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#268
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[QUOTE=MrOrange
But really I just wanted to say that Vasken Gourdikian is a great name for a movie villain, right up there with Keyser Soze. For general awesomeness, Ulysses S. Grant Early IV ain't bad neither.[/QUOTE] LMAO Ur2Funny |
#269
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The way "Calguns" is thrown around in that article, makes it sound like we are on track to be labeled a hate group by the SPLC. Extremely negative.
While I appreciate off-roster handguns in circulation, the motivation here was not to support 2A and expanded choice for CA residents. It was to line his wallet by using an exemption to our draconian firearms laws in a dishonest manner. Enriching yourself by taking advantage of a supply chain that you only have access to because of your public employment credentials...sounds a lot like....never mind. It seems his eventual downfall was due to his posts here, a public forum, where LEOs from all levels of .gov are known to lurk and participate, sometimes while "on the clock". This only confirms poor decision making skills that would disqualify one from a CCW let alone a Peace Officer career. The reckless exposure of Calguns members who purchased firearms from him, most likely came to a halt when he sold to a LEO around the time of his last login. I actually appreciate that enforcement is not only for the general public. |
#270
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Consider the BATF letter from Eric D. Harden in which he says: http://www.trbas.com/media/media/acr...0-13121525.pdf Quote:
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To me, this shows a double standard.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#271
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LOL @ the cuck
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#273
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On a side note, I've bought and sold accessories to him several times a few years ago and shot the S for a few hours each time. Crazy to see him and CGN on the news and of course seeing CGN portrayed negatively.
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WTB used AK MFER. |
#274
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bless his heart
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#275
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From the article:
"In May 2015, Gourdikian received a waiver allowing him to bypass the 10-day waiting period to buy a Glock 43 pistol. The waiver, signed by Pasadena Police Chief Phillip Sanchez, states the Glock was being purchased for off-duty use, not for resale. Seven days later, vgourdik sold a gun of the same make and model on Calguns" Sounds pretty bad for this Police Lieutenant... sounds like sheer elitism... and a good dose of "not too bright". I hate the fact that he used this forum to soil his department's reputation regardless of the outcome of this investigation. I also hate the fact that there are some really GREAT LEOs on this forum who are stand up guys/gals, who often help us understand the nuances in enforcement policies and who share great perspectives that may no longer feel very comfortable participating here in the Calguns community because of this one guy's blatant greed. |
#278
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#279
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Nailed it
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Former Front Sight Commander Member NRA Benefactor Life Member www.nra.org CRPA Life Member www.crpa.org NRA Instructor: Pistol, Personal Protection in the Home, Range Safety Officer |
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