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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 06-12-2022, 10:42 PM
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Gryff Gryff is offline
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Default S&W .32 Double Action 4th Model - FFL needed for transfer?

I have a friend who has a Smith & Wesson .32 Double Action 4th Model in nickel that he might be wanting to sell. Serial number shows a production in the late 1880s/early 1890s (sn 60135), and the S&W bible states that this falls in the range of legal antiques.

Does he need an FFL for the transfer? The Calguns wiki page on Antique Firearms says that pre-1898 handguns are exempt if "ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."

I figure someone still makes .32 S&W ammo, so it makes me think that an FFL is needed.

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Last edited by Gryff; 06-12-2022 at 10:58 PM..
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  #2  
Old 06-13-2022, 2:47 PM
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No FFL needed. The NFA definition is not the correct definition to use. Here is the correct definition:

18 USC 921(16)(A)
antique firearm
(16) The term “antique firearm” means— (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica— (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or (C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

Replicas cannot use "modern ammo".

Last edited by Spaffo; 06-13-2022 at 2:50 PM..
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  #3  
Old 06-13-2022, 7:01 PM
pacrat pacrat is offline
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Quote:
wiki page on Antique Firearms says that pre-1898 handguns are exempt
Not quite right by one year. Actually, ALL 1898 firearms are exempt. The cutoff for exemption is;

PRE ...... Jan 1, 1899
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  #4  
Old 06-13-2022, 8:32 PM
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Seems like the wiki needs correcting. Ammo availability has nothing to do with it if it is not NFA (machine gun etc).

If it is pre-1899 and not NFA, it is antique.
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Old 06-14-2022, 10:23 PM
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Right. But does California play any games with pre-1898 handguns? Do they require an FFL?
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Old 06-15-2022, 11:38 AM
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No. They use the USC 921 definition, but there is misinformation out there, i.e. websites quoting the NFA definition erroneously, bad telephone info, gun store FUD etc. When I was handing firearm arrests, I only took telephonic advice from the LAPD Gun Detail, an actual ATF special agent, or an actual Cal DOJ special agent. Others at the ATF and DOJ offices often gave bad advice. The FUD is self- perpetuating.
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Old 06-22-2022, 11:53 PM
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Yes .32 SW is still made. Keep seeing in all LGS.
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  #8  
Old 06-26-2022, 1:39 AM
hambam105 hambam105 is offline
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LA Confidential throw-down.
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