80percentarms.com no longer ships to UPS Stores

[lugnutwrench]

I am posting the details of my most recent experience with 80percentarms.com which has moved from unpleasant to downright surreal in the hopes that others may avoid a similar situation.

For the curious, I am posting email threads and tracking the details of my ongoing interactions with them here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/WA...DERS/4-766785/. Before you weigh in, I urge you to please read that thread first.

UPDATE AS OF 2021-09-14: 80percentarms.com has reassured me that they have canceled my order and issued a full refund. In addition, their customer service rep has shipped my the products they had in stock at the time, despite issuing me a refund. I interpret this as a kindness, and hopefully a sign that my fears of insolvency are unfounded. I will probably ship the items back to 80percentarms.com. I'm grateful for the gesture, but getting something for nothing never feels right to me.

SUMMARY: I placed an order with 80percentarms.com several months ago. They charged my card immediately, knowing that my goods would not ship for months. In the mean time, I have tried to cancel my order for a refund. 80percentarms.com has flat out refused. They appear to be doing everything in their power to avoid giving me back my money, including going out of their way to ship me (now) unwanted goods. In many cases, they will not even acknowledge my many, many requests to cancel. It is mind boggling. The only thing I can think of that would explain such obstinance is that the company can't refund me, but is scared to admit that.

Also, I don't need help navigating my situation with 80percentarms.com. I have that handled. I'm posting here as a warning to others and to invite anyone with knowledge of the health of that company or its dealings with the ATF to come forward and surface details.

Background:

I had an order pending with 80% Arms for several months now on an out-of-stock item. I have two previous orders with them shipped to my mailbox. When I inquired about my order recently, they said they won't ship it to my ship-to address (the same address to which prior orders were shipped) because their new "policy" is that they don't ship to UPS stores. When I asked about the motivation for the policy, I got back evasion in the form of the following:

I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience as the policy was recently set in place. Unfortunately we no longer offer to ship to addresses that lead to UPS locations. Please provide another shipping address in which we can direct your package to.

I wrote back and said the lack of responding to my question was disconcerting and requested that all my pending orders be canceled. They didn't cancel them but instead asked for my personal phone number so they could "discuss" the situation with me. What followed continues to be a disorienting back-and-forth that spans dozens of emails over now weeks. Despite me making extremely clear requests to cancel and refund my order at almost every turn, in almost all cases, they refuse to acknowledge that I've even made that request, pretending that there is some other issue to be "solved", escalated, or explained.

"80% Arms", "80 Percent Arms", "Eighty Percent Arms", "80percent", "80percentarms", or "80percentarms.com" for anyone searching on those terms.

[80% Arms]

Lugnutwrench,

We typically avoid engaging on public platforms about specific orders, but you have made us aware that our communication was poor, and that is something we are actively trying to work on. We apologize for the frustration and appreciate you bringing this to our attention. We are not a vendor on AR15.com to reply to your post on that forum.

You are correct that we certainly failed in communicating the issue of shipping to a UPS Box and finding a more suitable resolution to your problem as a loyal customer. We primarily ship FedEx/USPS, and we’ve seen a dramatic increase in return-to-sender packages going to UPS boxes. Sometimes it works, but it’s become so unreliable that we’ve moved away from it.

The person you spoke to assumed, incorrectly, that we’ve stopped shipping to UPS boxes because of fraud. This came about because we recently implemented several other policy changes to prevent fraudulent orders. The assumption was incorrect and we’ve performed internal training. We should not guess at the reasons behind our policies.

We pride ourselves on our customer service, so it's particularly painful when we've upset a customer this much. As many members of this forum can likely tell you, we go to whatever steps necessary to make things right.

Your order was refunded in full on Thursday, and shipped in full on Friday (dropped off at a UPS Store). If that refund has not already hit your account, it should within the next couple of days. Aside from a full refund, shipping your order in full, and taking training steps with our team, as well as creating new policies for the future so that this doesn't happen again, we're unsure what else we can do for you. However, if there is something that can change your experience with us to be even just a little more positive, please don't hesitate to let us know.

Again, we sincerely apologize for the frustration that our failures in communication have caused you.

80% Arms Team

[etwinam]

Good on you 80% full refund and still fulfilled the order.

[bugsy714]

Originally Posted by 80% Arms

Lugnutwrench,

We typically avoid engaging on public platforms about specific orders, but you have made us aware that our communication was poor, and that is something we are actively trying to work on. We apologize for the frustration and appreciate you bringing this to our attention. We are not a vendor on AR15.com to reply to your post on that forum.

You are correct that we certainly failed in communicating the issue of shipping to a UPS Box and finding a more suitable resolution to your problem as a loyal customer. We primarily ship FedEx/USPS, and we’ve seen a dramatic increase in return-to-sender packages going to UPS boxes. Sometimes it works, but it’s become so unreliable that we’ve moved away from it.

The person you spoke to assumed, incorrectly, that we’ve stopped shipping to UPS boxes because of fraud. This came about because we recently implemented several other policy changes to prevent fraudulent orders. The assumption was incorrect and we’ve performed internal training. We should not guess at the reasons behind our policies.

We pride ourselves on our customer service, so it's particularly painful when we've upset a customer this much. As many members of this forum can likely tell you, we go to whatever steps necessary to make things right.

Your order was refunded in full on Thursday, and shipped in full on Friday (dropped off at a UPS Store). If that refund has not already hit your account, it should within the next couple of days. Aside from a full refund, shipping your order in full, and taking training steps with our team, as well as creating new policies for the future so that this doesn't happen again, we're unsure what else we can do for you. However, if there is something that can change your experience with us to be even just a little more positive, please don't hesitate to let us know.

Again, we sincerely apologize for the frustration that our failures in communication have caused you.

80% Arms Team

That’s good old-fashioned American customer service right there thumbs up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lugnutwrench]

Originally Posted by 80% Arms

Lugnutwrench,

We typically avoid engaging on public platforms about specific orders, but you have made us aware that our communication was poor, and that is something we are actively trying to work on. We apologize for the frustration and appreciate you bringing this to our attention. We are not a vendor on AR15.com to reply to your post on that forum.

…

Again, we sincerely apologize for the frustration that our failures in communication have caused you.

80% Arms Team

Thank you for the clarity. I interpret this as a kindness, and hopefully a sign that my fears of insolvency are unfounded. I will likely ship the items back to you, though. While I'm grateful for the gesture, getting something for nothing never feels right to me.

[80% Arms]

Hi Lugnutwrench,

We appreciate the time you took telling us how we could have done better. We realize your time is valuable and want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to learn from our mistakes. Please accept this order as a token of our appreciation. Our sincere hope is we've earned the right to call you a customer again in the future.