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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 11-23-2019, 11:10 PM
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Default CCW-Sidearm and Knife?

Gibbs says always carry a knife. I know a folding knife like this is legal but as a subject here in the People's Republik of Mexifornistan I am guessing there's more to carrying a blade in California that I don't know. Curious if most CCW permit holders also carry a knife and what unknown liabilities may (or may not) exist.

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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.

Last edited by BC9696; 11-24-2019 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:42 PM
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Rule #9
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:56 PM
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Rule #9
Rule # 11
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Old 11-24-2019, 12:01 AM
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I believe fixed blades are a no go concealed in Cali. If you do want to carry a folder I suggest something with a “wave” type opener for single hand deployment. It’s a blade with a ridge on top of the spine near the folding joint that causes the folder to open when deploying one handed from a pocket.
If you have a Spyderco or something similar that has a thumb hole assist, you can fashion a wave opener by zinching a zip tie thru the thumb hole and then cutting off the loose material. That will cause the zip tie to assist in opening the blade via friction when you pull it out of your pocket.
I you could carry that on your non dominant side as a backup to your firearm.

Last edited by 11bravo1p; 11-24-2019 at 12:34 AM..
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Old 11-24-2019, 12:04 AM
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https://youtu.be/AABt6c_MhfI
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2019, 1:27 AM
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See the sticky in the Blades, Bows and Tools forum.

Short answer: except for a few areas like schools, CA state law does not care much about folders. Local jurisdictions however, can also make laws on the topic.
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Old 11-24-2019, 1:41 AM
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I carry a firearm and a folding knife. The knife is less for defensive purposes than it is for everyday usage. Opening packages, cutting things loose, etc. When I didn't carry a gun, I still carried a knife.
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Old 11-24-2019, 5:46 AM
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It seems to me that Rule #4 is likely to be consulted prior to discussing Rule #9.

Other rules which might be applicable would be 3a, 7, 8, 13, 14, 18, and 20.

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 11-24-2019 at 5:50 AM..
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Old 11-24-2019, 8:04 AM
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There are two kinds of men. Men that carry a useful knife and know how to use it, and "men" that look to others to borrow a knife when the need arises.

Choose which you want to be.

Carrying CCW does not obliterate the need and usefulness of carrying a knife...though you might need to set up some of your EDC knives for weak side carry so the are out of the way of your CCW.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:22 AM
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A knife is simply another tool which should always be at your disposal, ALWAYS.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:56 AM
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Okay, let me rephrase the question. If you (a CCW permit holder) find yourself in a situation where using a knife to stop a threat makes more sense than using your sidearm (area too crowded to discharge a firearm, multiple assailants so you don't wanna call attention to yourself, etc.)...does it change anything here in CA? I figure if you take a life, you took a life...method should not be a factor but then again...that's common sense and common sense in California's laws is dead. Murdered by leftist morons in Sac.

Oh and I already have a knife...it's the one shown in the 1st post. ZT Combat.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2019, 11:00 AM
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I do, but I'm in Texas. I also always have a P3AT in my pocket as well.

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Old 11-24-2019, 11:22 AM
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I carry a firearm frequently and when and where I can but I always carry a knife. It is not always a defensive/offensive aka a “tactical” knife and more often then not is a Case knife. My knife gets used multiple times a day whereas my carry handguns have never cleared leather for their intended purpose.
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Old 11-24-2019, 12:48 PM
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Drifted into CCW discussion, so moved.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


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Old 11-24-2019, 3:40 PM
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I carry a folding knife for day to day function. I also carry a compact stun gun for non-lethal option should my attacker be unarmed but pose a threat. But as soon as the attacker pulls a knife, the gun comes out. I'm not about to find out if I'm more skilled with a blade than my attacker. I believe this loadout should be a must for any CCW. All options covered. My 2 cents.

And for the dude talking about multiple assailants... Lol. Really? Where are you planning to be attacked Hollywood style? Most of us won't ever have the need to even pull our guns in our lifetime let alone deal with multiple attackers. Food for thought.

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Old 11-24-2019, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by djweatherbie View Post

Lol. Really?

Most of us won't ever have the need to even pull our guns in our lifetime let alone deal with multiple attackers. Food for thought.

LOL? Yes, really. But I don't think it's all that funny.

If you read the news, you'd see reports all the time of gang rapes, of people getting stomped into a coma by gangs of maniacs, of mobs of protesters attacking innocent passers-by. So yeah, this is as distinct a possibility as any other assault.

If you don't train for multiple attackers, you are not prepared. And shooting at two pieces of paper instead of one is not training.
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Old 11-24-2019, 4:59 PM
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I'm not sure I understand your question about "does it change things here in CA?" Do you think it is illegal to use a knife to protect yourself?

I carry a knife, but that is just to cut stuff, not for defense. If it is time to go lethal, it's going to be my gun. Using a knife requires getting too close to the bad guy and my goal is to get away.

For less-than-lethal, I carry pepper spray, for things like someone trying to steal my shoes on BART.
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Old 11-24-2019, 6:14 PM
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A fixed blade must be visible.

A folder must be one that you must actually come in contact with the blade itself to deploy it. You can have a spring-loaded blade that requires you to pull on that little nub on the back of the blade to pop it open but you can not have a switch type blade that is activated with a button or switch.

Other than that, I do not think there are really any restrictions other than maybe blade length, But I do not recall what the limit is on that.

Oh, I believe there is a rule against having a blade/knife that is disguised as something else such as a pen or something. Again I am a little rusty on the rules, Thanks for the post, I need to go study up and get fresh on that info again.

I always have a knife on me, not so much for self-defense but as a tool. Opening mail mostly but I am a Truck Driver and am always using it to fix bad trailer lights, to pop them out and sometimes to splice bad wires etc. Outside of work, the most use it gets is to open mail.

When I go hiking in cat country solo, I do have a dagger type fixed blade I wear outside the pants on the opposite side I carry my side arm. Just a back up, you never know.
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Last edited by CaliforniaCowboy; 11-24-2019 at 6:16 PM..
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Old 11-24-2019, 6:23 PM
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Rule # 11
It's #9 Probie.

Rookies.


http://www.ncisfanwiki.com/m/page/NC...Gibbs%27+Rules
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Old 11-25-2019, 6:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC9696 View Post
Okay, let me rephrase the question. If you (a CCW permit holder) find yourself in a situation where using a knife to stop a threat makes more sense than using your sidearm (area too crowded to discharge a firearm, multiple assailants so you don't wanna call attention to yourself, etc.)...does it change anything here in CA? I figure if you take a life, you took a life...method should not be a factor but then again...that's common sense and common sense in California's laws is dead. Murdered by leftist morons in Sac.
The standard for determining if using deadly force is justified is the same, no matter what type of weapon is utilized.
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Old 11-27-2019, 4:37 PM
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Only read the OP. FWIW, since I can't get a CA CCW yet (insufficient GC), I plan to EDC my Wenger SAK, but ditch my Benchmade Barrage (4" assisted folder). If you go through the CCW incidents linked in my sig line, or ASP's YT videos, you'll seen hardly ever do they involve H2H, so I plan on keeping my distance.
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Old 11-28-2019, 7:10 AM
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Only read the OP. FWIW, since I can't get a CA CCW yet (insufficient GC), I plan to EDC my Wenger SAK, but ditch my Benchmade Barrage (4" assisted folder). If you go through the CCW incidents linked in my sig line, or ASP's YT videos, you'll seen hardly ever do they involve H2H, so I plan on keeping my distance.
"you'll seen hardly ever do they involve H2H,"

Which means that some DO INVOLVE H2H.


Have a plan for all contingencies you can think off. Prepare for the ones you can.

Dismissal of a scenario as not likely is a gamble, the price being up to and including your life.
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Old 11-28-2019, 2:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BC9696 View Post
Okay, let me rephrase the question. If you (a CCW permit holder) find yourself in a situation where using a knife to stop a threat makes more sense than using your sidearm
I can think of no situation where that would be the better option. I carry a Kershaw 3" 1840 folder every day because I use it every day. I carried it before I had a CCW as a added source of protection just in case. Now I carry a pistol. Period. If I need a lethal weapon for any reason in any situation, I would use my pistol. Period.

I've had numerous situations in the last 20 years where I wish I'd had pepper spray and would have deployed it. I've never had a situation in the last 20 years where I wish I'd had a gun / knife and would have shot / stabbbed someone.

Last edited by TurboChrisB; 11-28-2019 at 2:43 PM..
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Old 11-29-2019, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Marine View Post
"you'll seen hardly ever do they involve H2H,"

Which means that some DO INVOLVE H2H.


Have a plan for all contingencies you can think off. Prepare for the ones you can.

Dismissal of a scenario as not likely is a gamble, the price being up to and including your life.
I play the odds, not against them.

The odds are, given past behavior is the strongest predictor of future behavior, I'll never need a gun in public. Just carrying a 2-shot derringer would put me ahead of the game.

Acc to FBI stats, the odds are any gunfight will be 3 shots within 3 yards within 3 seconds. Just carrying a 5-shot J-frame puts me ahead of the needs of the average gunfight.

I plan on allowing 4 shots per BG. I dismiss preparing for 10 shots per BG, despite the St. Cloud Mall terrorist attack (jihadi Security Guard wielding 2 steak knives is confronted by off duty LEO who shoots 10 times, hits BG 8x causing him to eventually bleed out. See my sig line list for details and links)

I dismiss preparing for Hotel Mumbai-like scenarios of taking on a gang of criminals or terrorists. "Run, hide, fight" are my "rules of (dis)engagement."

I know that in wartime, "one is none and two is one and three is better" (per Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch, Gunsite and USMC). But I don't plan on carrying a BUG. Heck, if the roster is gutted and I can get a SIG P365, I won't even carry a spare mag! 10+1 outta do me.

I dismiss carrying a fighting knife because I don't have time to keep up that perishable skill, just like I don't do BJJ, Thai kickboxing, wrestling, judo, boxing, etc. (helping me "fight" better). Instead I carry pepper spray and, hopefully soon, a CCW.

I don't spend time on parcour even though it could help me evade or escape ("run") better.

I'm not Jason Bourne, James Bond or even Jack Bauer. I have to buy my own equipment and I don't get paid to get trained and practice any of the above skills on the job. Any training is out of take home pay and out of my "free" time (e.g., family time). If you can afford the time, money and effort for all those, go for it. I can't and I won't. I won't be a "CCW operator" going on out on daily "CCW operations."

JMO
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Last edited by Paladin; 11-30-2019 at 2:42 PM..
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Old 11-30-2019, 11:33 AM
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Off topic, pepper spray is not something that interests me, too many ways to fail however these mini stun guns intrigue me. Please share info on these, specifically what makes and models to consider and why. Thanks.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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Old 11-30-2019, 2:05 PM
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Off topic, pepper spray is not something that interests me, too many ways to fail however these mini stun guns intrigue me. Please share info on these, specifically what makes and models to consider and why. Thanks.
Non-projectile stunning weapons have the same general tactical deficiency as knives and hand-to-hand: one needs to get into contact range.

As a necessity, that may become the case; as a plan, however, I think one can do better.

ETA Sometimes, of course, an attacker will have closed the distance themselves, so maybe a contact-stun device can make sense. Try a search engine query for "effective personal defense stun gun" - lots of relevant links returned.

Last edited by Librarian; 11-30-2019 at 3:27 PM..
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Old 12-02-2019, 9:29 PM
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Non-projectile stunning weapons have the same general tactical deficiency as knives and hand-to-hand: one needs to get into contact range.

As a necessity, that may become the case; as a plan, however, I think one can do better.

ETA Sometimes, of course, an attacker will have closed the distance themselves, so maybe a contact-stun device can make sense. Try a search engine query for "effective personal defense stun gun" - lots of relevant links returned.
In the event of a non-lethal attack (few guys mugging an old man for example) I can see a non-lethal HTH weapon being helpful. You shoot 3 unarmed men in California it's anyone's guess for how long you may sit in a cell. So educate me on these spine tingling devices.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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Old 12-03-2019, 6:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I play the odds, not against them.

The odds are, given past behavior is the strongest predictor of future behavior, I'll never need a gun in public. Just carrying a 2-shot derringer would put me ahead of the game.

Acc to FBI stats, the odds are any gunfight will be 3 shots within 3 yards within 3 seconds. Just carrying a 5-shot J-frame puts me ahead of the needs of the average gunfight.

I plan on allowing 4 shots per BG. I dismiss preparing for 10 shots per BG, despite the St. Cloud Mall terrorist attack (jihadi Security Guard wielding 2 steak knives is confronted by off duty LEO who shoots 10 times, hits BG 8x causing him to eventually bleed out. See my sig line list for details and links)

I dismiss preparing for Hotel Mumbai-like scenarios of taking on a gang of criminals or terrorists. "Run, hide, fight" are my "rules of (dis)engagement."

I know that in wartime, "one is none and two is one and three is better" (per Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch, Gunsite and USMC). But I don't plan on carrying a BUG. Heck, if the roster is gutted and I can get a SIG P365, I won't even carry a spare mag! 10+1 outta do me.

I dismiss carrying a fighting knife because I don't have time to keep up that perishable skill, just like I don't do BJJ, Thai kickboxing, wrestling, judo, boxing, etc. (helping me "fight" better). Instead I carry pepper spray and, hopefully soon, a CCW.

I don't spend time on parcour even though it could help me evade or escape ("run") better.

I'm not Jason Bourne, James Bond or even Jack Bauer. I have to buy my own equipment and I don't get paid to get trained and practice any of the above skills on the job. Any training is out of take home pay and out of my "free" time (e.g., family time). If you can afford the time, money and effort for all those, go for it. I can't and I won't. I won't be a "CCW operator" going on out on daily "CCW operations."

JMO
Each of us gets to decide what is right for them.
I am not rich, but not poor. I chose to spend a certain portion of my funds on defensive training and tools.

I am not young, so running I'd not as much as a viable option as it used to be.

I am retired, so other than family events, my time is my own.

I don't carry paracord because those bracelets seem to scream " I have a gun"

I carry a semiautomatic pistol with a spare magazine, more for failures than reloading. But I have yet to hear anyone say after a gun fight, I wish I had LESS ammo.

I carry a knife mostly to open boxes etc. But if I am in a H2H situation, it can help get some distance.


The spare mag and knife weigh very little, cost not so much.

I carry them for the same reason I carry a weapon.


As a matter of fact, the most expensive piece of my EDC is the license and insurance. Or maybe the pistol.

Do what's right for you.

And all the gear in the world is of little value without situational awareness.

Party on!
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