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  #1  
Old 01-02-2019, 9:00 AM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
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Default It's Israel but...

I ran across this article that highlights a specific issue regarding Orthodox Jews in the Israeli military. For those of you who don't know, the Orthodox community has had a long-standing exemption from military service since they don't recognize the modern state of Israel as a legitimate (God-sanctioned) state. Theodore Herzel, David Ben Gurion and many of the founders of the modern Zionist movement in Israel (not the same as Zionism in America, by the way) were either agnostic or atheist. While loyal to their ancestry, they were frustrated with the "promise" of a Messiah and took matters into their own hands. The Orthodox community, on the other hand, continues to wait for the Messiah. So there are some tensions between modern Israelis and Orthodox Jewish Israelis.

I won't take any side here. But I thought it was worth sharing for any of you who think that the modern state of Israel is a fulfillment of some divine promise to God's chosen people. Most Israelis certainly don't see it that way.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/conflic...ws-11546425000
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Old 01-02-2019, 2:28 PM
Garand Hunter Garand Hunter is offline
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I don't agree that " Most " Israeli's certainly don't see it that way. Things are rapidly changing in Israel with the large influx of immigrants continuing to arrive there. But it doesn't matter concerning the tension you referenced, it has always been there in one form or another. When its time on God's clock and calendar Messiah WILL show up right on time.

Psalm 1
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  #3  
Old 01-03-2019, 10:35 AM
Alan Block Alan Block is offline
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It is the ultra-orthodox or Haredi movement that refuse to serve. It is a sore spot in Israel since they have more influence/power than they should by their numbers.
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  #4  
Old 01-03-2019, 5:47 PM
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socal m1 shooter socal m1 shooter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
[...]
I won't take any side here. But I thought it was worth sharing for any of you who think that the modern state of Israel is a fulfillment of some divine promise to God's chosen people. Most Israelis certainly don't see it that way.
The article is behind a paywall.

A careful reading of scripture suggests that there will be two regatherings of Israel/the Jewish people, or, to put it differently, two returns to the Land "from the four corners of the Earth." One in unrighteousness/unbelief, out of wrath and for wrath, and one regathering for redemption.

Passages that describe a regathering in unrighteousness for judgement and wrath include Ezekiel 20:33-38 and Ezekiel 22:17-22. The Jewish people were regathered after the Holocaust, and there is more wrath to come, specifically the tribulation.

Both Deuteronomy 30-- specifically verse 3-- and Isaiah 11-- specifically verses 11:11-12-- speaks of a second regathering. From the passage, it is clear that this is not a regathering for wrath or judgment. Rather, it is a regathering for redemption.

If you care to watch a much more careful explication of the two regatherings, you can watch this video. The speaker wrote a book which goes into much greater depth.
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Old 01-04-2019, 4:24 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is online now
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I was always taught, and I am NOT saying I was taught correctly, that God was done with Isreal and the Jews. I have also be taught, again I'm not sure if it was correct, that there would be mass conversions of the Jews at the "End Times".
I've since come to learn that neither may not be the case. Especially when I came across this:

Jer 3:13
Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.
Jer 3:14
Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2019, 7:53 AM
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TrailerparkTrash TrailerparkTrash is offline
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I don’t believe in the “rapture.” Because if you then have a “second coming,” of Jesus, this would make it a total of THREE times Jesus returned to earth and that is an unbiblical claim. The entire thing of trying to find “secrets” and/or codes in the Bible in order to pull out hidden messages of the end times is laughable in my opinion. The Bible often speaks about its own clarity. (Psalm 119:130). Besides, Jesus even said that he never spoke in secret (John 18:19-21).

I believe in a second coming of Christ and that’s it. Jesus was clear about that. As far as a pre, mid or post trib, who cares. That’s all minutia, white noise and distraction, created by sinful man. All I know is one day believers will be in heaven with Jesus and he shall return a second coming on earth.
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Old 02-02-2019, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
I don’t believe in the “rapture.” Because if you then have a “second coming,” of Jesus, this would make it a total of THREE times Jesus returned to earth and that is an unbiblical claim. The entire thing of trying to find “secrets” and/or codes in the Bible in order to pull out hidden messages of the end times is laughable in my opinion. The Bible often speaks about its own clarity. (Psalm 119:130). Besides, Jesus even said that he never spoke in secret (John 18:19-21).

I believe in a second coming of Christ and that’s it. Jesus was clear about that. As far as a pre, mid or post trib, who cares. That’s all minutia, white noise and distraction, created by sinful man. All I know is one day believers will be in heaven with Jesus and he shall return a second coming on earth.
TpT - No problem. Not a salvation issue. But, I will be smiling when I see you rising up in your glorified body next to me.
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"Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther
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Old 03-02-2019, 7:14 PM
Nasc50 Nasc50 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
I don’t believe in the “rapture.” Because if you then have a “second coming,” of Jesus, this would make it a total of THREE times Jesus returned to earth and that is an unbiblical claim. The entire thing of trying to find “secrets” and/or codes in the Bible in order to pull out hidden messages of the end times is laughable in my opinion. The Bible often speaks about its own clarity. (Psalm 119:130). Besides, Jesus even said that he never spoke in secret (John 18:19-21).

I believe in a second coming of Christ and that’s it. Jesus was clear about that. As far as a pre, mid or post trib, who cares. That’s all minutia, white noise and distraction, created by sinful man. All I know is one day believers will be in heaven with Jesus and he shall return a second coming on earth.
Rapture is not second coming. We meet him in the air. He never touches the ground. When the rapture does occur you'll be pleasantly surprised. See you in the air.
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:49 AM
Just Dave Just Dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post
TpT - No problem. Not a salvation issue. But, I will be smiling when I see you rising up in your glorified body next to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasc50 View Post
Rapture is not second coming. We meet him in the air. He never touches the ground. When the rapture does occur you'll be pleasantly surprised. See you in the air.
Good answers.

As for the gathering back into the land one is in disobedience, then scattered again during the trib and gathered back in obedience for redemption
I believe what we're seeing now is the gathering to the land in disobedience
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