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  #1  
Old 07-10-2019, 11:26 PM
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Default Snitches at the Gun Range

I watched a video by the gun guy - YouTube - and he said fuds at the gun range were taking pictures of people shooting sporting rifles - then of their license plates and sending it into the DoJ- is this true? If so how should we respond
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:27 PM
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Shoot them?
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:28 PM
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https://youtu.be/QREe6lmyL_4
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:38 PM
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stitches?

I wouldn't put it past the DoJ to do that to scare gun owners away from the range. It's not even a matter of having something prohibited. It's the risk of getting a knock on the door and all of your **** rooted through. And there's the inanity of CA gun laws which, by the strict letter of the law (not the intent), all CA gun owners are breaking at least one law
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:44 PM
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He claims this is happening all over the state but doesn't follow it up with any facts of actual cases. I calling BS. It seems to be just a hypothetical so he can go into his spiel on making you AR featureless.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:53 PM
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I've never seen it happen.

My firearms are legal, so I'm not concerned about photos going to the DOJ. I'd be more concerned about some wackadoodle showing poor form and taking pictures of me on the range without asking. That's just rude. Don't most ranges have rules on picture taking? Complain to a range officer if it happens to you.

Following shooters out to their car, and then taking a pic of the plate? Probably a good way to get bumped from the range, and possibly a contact from LEOs. ( Taking a picture of plate? Looking for burglary info? )

Still, the whole thing sounds unlikely.

-- Michael
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:56 PM
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This YouTuber is very difficult to watch without falling asleep. Mostly “Uhhhhm” and mumbling.
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Old 07-11-2019, 1:43 AM
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Looks like BS...
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Old 07-11-2019, 1:50 AM
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This is a re-FUD
Same FUD after AW registration part 1
Same FUD after AW registration part 2
Same FUD after BB
Same FUD for LC magazines
Same FUD after AW registration part 3
Soon to be FUD for range selling ammo.
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  #10  
Old 07-11-2019, 7:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick123 View Post
You got a timestamp where he discusses this? I clicked around the vid and didn't catch it specifically. I'm assuming this guy and the Daily Shooter should get together and make the ultimate FUD video.
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Old 07-11-2019, 7:26 AM
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Sounds like something FP would do...


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Old 07-11-2019, 7:28 AM
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Snitches get stitches or end up in ditches.
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Old 07-11-2019, 7:30 AM
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I agree this is likely FUD.

But, as an enthusiast and not as a lawyer, everyone who appears in public with a firearm needs to be aware of the myriad of transport, configuration, capacity, etc laws.

“Snitches get stitches” is neither a plan nor a defense. I would prefer it if everyone minded their own business, but you cant force anyone to do so.

The OP asks, what can we do about this? What you need to do is be aware that if you are in public with an illegally configured firearm, and someone actively turns you in, you are screwed.

You may not care. You may be jonesing to make a statement or be the test case.

But if youre not, just know you are in for some trouble.
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Old 07-11-2019, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick123 View Post
I watched a video by the gun guy - YouTube - and he said fuds at the gun range were taking pictures of people shooting sporting rifles - then of their license plates and sending it into the DoJ- is this true? If so how should we respond
What is your agenda? Man up, tell us, you obviously have one.
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  #15  
Old 07-11-2019, 8:51 AM
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Maybe whip out your phone and start taking pictures of them? Stand a few feet away and take pics of them, their stuff, follow them to their car and take pics of that. I’ve found that most of these cowards, much like auntie fa, don’t like it when the shoe is on the other foot.
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  #16  
Old 07-11-2019, 8:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick123 View Post
I watched a video by the gun guy
Yeah seems like a totally legit source of information.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2019, 8:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
I've never seen it happen.
Neither have I.
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Old 07-11-2019, 9:10 AM
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Social
Justice
Warriors

They are everywhere

Be aware of observers- not shooters
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  #19  
Old 07-11-2019, 9:16 AM
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I doubt this is true and if they are doing that kind of surveillance I would bet they are doj agents.

Most shooters in California are ignorant of the laws anyway. I would not be surprised if less than half of rifles show up in legal configuration.
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Old 07-11-2019, 9:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten View Post
You got a timestamp where he discusses this? I clicked around the vid and didn't catch it specifically. I'm assuming this guy and the Daily Shooter should get together and make the ultimate FUD video.
Time stamp 10.27 is where he starts talking about it
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2019, 9:38 AM
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It's a long, lonely road to the range I go to.
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2019, 9:41 AM
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Same motivation behind dudes calling DUPE on threads as they get nothing out of it. Lol.
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:43 AM
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I think this sort of thing would stand out at the places I go to, as long as you have a modicum of situational awareness.

I sometimes see youngsters taking a photo or video of their own group, never of someone else.

I once had an RSO ask to video me shooting - he was trying to catch the fireball from the blast forwarder on my 7.62X39. Another time a fellow asked to take a photo of my 'Don't Gavin my Gun Rights' t-shirt.

And once I asked a guy if he wanted me to open it up and show him, when I saw a fellow peering into my 4WheelCamper in the parking lot. Turns out he was the dude shooting next to me, and we chatted in the parking lot for 30 minutes about camping and campers. I was glad I approached him friendly instead of suspiciously.

In nearly all cases appearances of a firearm cannot indicate legality. I have seen suppressors and belt-fed firearms at the range and they drew no more than casual interest.
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:55 AM
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Anyone who says this is "fake" should consider boarding that ship & flying back to the planet earth.

Several years ago, before the more-recent restrictions, I regularly took my Uzi & HK93 to the range. Both were registered before that '91 or '92 deadline. People (who I suspect were plainclothes LEO's) frequently questioned me about how I was able to shoot "illegal assault weapons with big magazines." They started out with friendly chat before the questions. When they stopped sounding friendly, I said, "I'll be glad to show you DOJ proof of registration - as soon as you show me your police I.D." That usually ended the chat. I also saw uniformed LEO's sitting in their cars, staring & glaring at me. One officer watched me on the 50-yd. steel targets & actually said, "Jesus...I'd hate to go up against you; you are good with that thing." Pretty dumb thing to say - as if the fact that I own an Uzi means he would be at risk from it. Typical anti-gun fool; as if the gun is dangerous...not the person using it.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win231 View Post
Anyone who says this is "fake" should consider boarding that ship & flying back to the planet earth.

Several years ago, before the more-recent restrictions, I regularly took my Uzi & HK93 to the range. Both were registered before that '91 or '92 deadline. People (who I suspect were plainclothes LEO's) frequently questioned me about how I was able to shoot "illegal assault weapons with big magazines." They started out with friendly chat before the questions. When they stopped sounding friendly, I said, "I'll be glad to show you DOJ proof of registration - as soon as you show me your police I.D." That usually ended the chat. I also saw uniformed LEO's sitting in their cars, staring & glaring at me. One officer watched me on the 50-yd. steel targets & actually said, "Jesus...I'd hate to go up against you; you are good with that thing." Pretty dumb thing to say - as if the fact that I own an Uzi means he would be at risk from it. Typical anti-gun fool; as if the gun is dangerous...not the person using it.
I do not doubt that your story above is true.

Just curious though. You mentioned it happen frequently. Your best guess -how many times you think this happened?

And if possible -at which ranges?

Because from what I’ve seen of other Raw owners here on Calguns, and from actual RAW owners that I know, what happened to you is pretty uncommon.

..

Last edited by LEAD LAUNCHER; 07-11-2019 at 12:39 PM.. Reason: Punctuation of course
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenemae View Post
stitches?

I wouldn't put it past the DoJ to do that to scare gun owners away from the range. It's not even a matter of having something prohibited. It's the risk of getting a knock on the door and all of your **** rooted through. And there's the inanity of CA gun laws which, by the strict letter of the law (not the intent), all CA gun owners are breaking at least one law
I am quite confident that I am not breaking and have not broken any laws.

It's not THAT hard to stay 100% legal.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:57 AM
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I have taken out my raws pretty regularly.

Other than a few FUD fountains who tried to tell me, definitively, that my magazines are “illegal”, i have never had an issue of any kind.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooner760HD View Post
I would not be surprised if less than half of rifles show up in legal configuration.
I guess it depends on the range. I've seen a surprising number of featureless rifles at Angeles. Most people look to be in compliance, and you never know who else is on a RAW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDave100 View Post
I once had an RSO ask to video me shooting - he was trying to catch the fireball from the blast forwarder on my 7.62X39.
Only time I was photo'd/filmed at a range (that I know of) was when the RSO wanted some video of my 50 going off. Of course, he politely asked first. Never seen any photos/video aside from that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usmc0844spare View Post
I am quite confident that I am not breaking and have not broken any laws.

It's not THAT hard to stay 100% legal.
100% is quite the confident statement. Do you own any bullets with plastic tips? Strictly speaking, that is a destructive device.
PC 16460. - “destructive device” includes [...]: (1) Any projectile containing [...] any [...] chemical substance
Of course, I don't expect anyone will ever be arrested or charged, let alone convicted of possessing a DD for having some plastic caps on their hollow-points, but that also means you're not, strictly speaking, 100% compliant. I don't think 100% is even possible given how many laws there are, how poorly they're written, and the ones you don't even know about are those you'll fall foul of.
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Old 07-11-2019, 1:03 PM
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My local range keeps a couple of shovels and a few bags of lime for just such an occasion.
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Old 07-11-2019, 1:57 PM
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Snitches get stitches or end up in ditches.

Handle it like WY ranchers do with wolves.


Shoot - Shovel - Shut up...
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Old 07-11-2019, 2:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win231 View Post
Anyone who says this is "fake" should consider boarding that ship & flying back to the planet earth.

Several years ago, before the more-recent restrictions, I regularly took my Uzi & HK93 to the range. Both were registered before that '91 or '92 deadline. People (who I suspect were plainclothes LEO's) frequently questioned me about how I was able to shoot "illegal assault weapons with big magazines." They started out with friendly chat before the questions. When they stopped sounding friendly, I said, "I'll be glad to show you DOJ proof of registration - as soon as you show me your police I.D." That usually ended the chat. I also saw uniformed LEO's sitting in their cars, staring & glaring at me. One officer watched me on the 50-yd. steel targets & actually said, "Jesus...I'd hate to go up against you; you are good with that thing." Pretty dumb thing to say - as if the fact that I own an Uzi means he would be at risk from it. Typical anti-gun fool; as if the gun is dangerous...not the person using it.
Man, some people will not give a cop a break. Cop strikes up a conversation by complimenting your skill, and all you want to do is crap all over him.
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Old 07-11-2019, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tenemae View Post

Do you own any bullets with plastic tips? Strictly speaking, that is a destructive device.
PC 16460. - “destructive device” includes [...]: (1) Any projectile containing [...] any [...] chemical substance
Of course, I don't expect anyone will ever be arrested or charged, let alone convicted of possessing a DD for having some plastic caps on their hollow-points, but that also means you're not, strictly speaking, 100% compliant. I don't think 100% is even possible given how many laws there are, how poorly they're written, and the ones you don't even know about are those you'll fall foul of.
Where did you come up with that definition of a "chemical substance"? A chemical substance is two or more elements combined through a chemical reaction (key words) to form a new chemical substance or compound, that can not be physically separated into the base elements once combined. It is not a piece of plastic set into the hollow cavity of a bullet, or a copper jacket on a lead bullet.
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Old 07-11-2019, 2:36 PM
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I've gone out of my way to stay compliant over the years. So I'm not worried about getting in trouble for anything.

But how many of you have large collections -- and I don't mean of old mil-surp stuff -- that amounts to a very large financial investment? How many have a few thousand rounds or more of ammo?

Whether or not the claims above are true, we should all worry about some nosy nut or anti-gun activist with wild claims getting the po-po to serve a warrant at your home. I've seen enough to know some police don't have a problem laying your NIB guns in the street -- out of the box. And the media isn't above making you look like a terrorist with your hoard of dozens of weapons and stockpile of enough ammo to supply a small army. After that, even if you were cleared of all charges, or no charges were ever filed, wouldn't you feel violated and like you lost to a certain extent anyway?

How do you ever recover from pristine off-list collector items being banged up and scratched?

Again, I'm not saying the claims in the video are true. But I will say I could see some activist trying this tactic. And I think it would be a nightmare for many here regardless of whether there were any statutes violated.
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Old 07-11-2019, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
I agree this is likely FUD.

But, as an enthusiast and not as a lawyer, everyone who appears in public with a firearm needs to be aware of the myriad of transport, configuration, capacity, etc laws.

“Snitches get stitches” is neither a plan nor a defense. I would prefer it if everyone minded their own business, but you cant force anyone to do so.

The OP asks, what can we do about this? What you need to do is be aware that if you are in public with an illegally configured firearm, and someone actively turns you in, you are screwed.

You may not care. You may be jonesing to make a statement or be the test case.

But if youre not, just know you are in for some trouble.
Well me and my Homies have been filmed many times in firing our weapons out in public. In fact I have been on the front page of the local newspapers and the TV news multiple times in the past.

I may be the lowest ranking member of the Veteran's Honor Guard, but some such as a Navy Master Chief Petty Officer become cowards when the media show up for an interview. So I will make a remark to the group (chicken), and happily get in front of the cameras in my USMC Dress Blues for some positive public presence. I am not afraid of public speaking!

Of course we are in in uniform and if I was there I would notify the local Law Enforcement about our doing a Military Funeral for a Veteran and firing the traditional 3 round rifle volley salute, and in some cases it was downtown or in a Cemetery about 100 yards from a school. Could I get in trouble with having up to a dozen M1 Garand rifles in the back of my truck? Years ago we used 1903A3 Springfield rifles for the Veteran's Honor Guard.





I don't own an AR or AK platform weapon out of personal choice, so I am not worried about the Ca DOJ. Living out in the boonies on 80 acres, the only time I ever go to a 'range' is to requalify for my CCW every two years.

So if the saying is "snitches get stitches" where the rest of you live, can I claim that 'snitches get bayoneted' here in my area?? I usually have a bayonet (and other web gear {782 gear for us Marines}) with me when transporting military surplus rifles for the Ceremonies, or when traveling out on my own...
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Old 07-11-2019, 5:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
Where did you come up with that definition of a "chemical substance"? A chemical substance is two or more elements combined through a chemical reaction (key words) to form a new chemical substance or compound, that can not be physically separated into the base elements once combined. It is not a piece of plastic set into the hollow cavity of a bullet, or a copper jacket on a lead bullet.
Are you arguing plastic is not a chemical substance or that the bullet does not "contain" it?
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Old 07-11-2019, 6:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAD LAUNCHER View Post
I do not doubt that your story above is true.

Just curious though. You mentioned it happen frequently. Your best guess -how many times you think this happened?

And if possible -at which ranges?

Because from what I’ve seen of other Raw owners here on Calguns, and from actual RAW owners that I know, what happened to you is pretty uncommon.

..
At least 4 times at Angeles. They have a "Cop Day" when the SWAT team sights in their rifles & there are many cops there; maybe that had something to do with it.
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Old 07-11-2019, 6:25 PM
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Man, some people will not give a cop a break. Cop strikes up a conversation by complimenting your skill, and all you want to do is crap all over him.
Yeah...you can interpret it any way you choose. How long were you a cop?
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Old 07-11-2019, 6:38 PM
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Had to be a calgunner. You know, one of the hand wringing regulation junkies that love to post here....
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Old 07-12-2019, 8:36 AM
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God Bless America God Bless America is offline
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Are you arguing plastic is not a chemical substance or that the bullet does not "contain" it?
Yes. That reading us absurd, and not entitled to credibility. Any physical matter would fall under that ridiculous reading, meaning there could be no bullets without "a chemical substance" because lead is a chemical substance oh noes!

That goes beyond absurd, to literally impossible. There is another word for it, "stupid." I would not be shocked if a judge was to actually call it that.

Sarah Brady would call that argument stupid. It's that bad.

Last edited by God Bless America; 07-12-2019 at 11:40 AM..
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Old 07-12-2019, 8:46 AM
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He claims this is happening all over the state but doesn't follow it up with any facts of actual cases. I calling BS. It seems to be just a hypothetical so he can go into his spiel on making you AR featureless.
This.
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