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  #161  
Old 01-17-2023, 3:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
Another analogy is, say you buy a bcm ar15. You swap the entire upper for a dpms.

If you now go sell the rifle, are you gonna list it as bcm or dpms?

Since the fcu is the "firearm" it doesnt matter what you change for grip or slide. The fcu is still a FA320 serial#
This is my big question what legal issues can this be as it's only cosmetic changes and nothing is being done to the FCU

But if it states some place that it's single shot and cop pulls you over and checks but now it's not single shot

California and there roaster crap 🤬🤬🤬🤬
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  #162  
Old 01-17-2023, 3:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
When someone buys a CA320, turns it into a P320 by replacing a grip module and buying magazines and wants it on their CCW, is it going to be listed as a Franklin Armory CA320 ? Or Sig Sauer P320? Just curios. Based on what I know , a CA320 is a SIG SAUER P320 with grip module that makes it a single shot. By replacing a grip module with one from Sig Arms and buying a magazine, one will end up with SIG SAUER P320. Unless I am missing something (?)
Registered still as Franklin armory ca320 single shot not semi

This is the issue I'm facing not a lawyer but ya it all can be even the CCW part but if caught police going to check your gun registration and see it's single shot but you have a mag with more than 1 bullet you have a semi automatic

I know bro these ****en stupid California laws and make things so complicated I pray I'm wrong
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  #163  
Old 01-17-2023, 3:45 AM
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Everything on the gun is sig besides the grip module
It comes with everything needed to shoot big issue is that it gets registered as FA ca320 and single shot

You can change it all out but dros still ca320 single shot
I can see the legal issues about this but I do pray to God I'm wrong





Quote:
Originally Posted by Karch View Post
Doesn’t it include a 3.9” sig barrel and slide already?

I agree the $950 isn’t a great deal, but at the very least it puts a perception-wise ceiling on what the secondary market is asking for a P320 variant.

It’s unfortunate FA has to include the complete slide, as I see it, because unless you want a 3.9” 9mm the way it comes, it’s not cost effective.

Say you want an x5 Legion. I think you are looking at about $750 or so for an x-caliber kit from Sig, but there’s still (currently) the magazine capacity issue to deal with.

I can see this could give Sig a really good opportunity to increase their x-caliber kits as well as other kits. Enough so that they may actually market the aforementioned x5 Legion and other kits with their already available 10 round magazines so they can be shipped directly or from any supplier.

I recently bought one x-caliber kit (compact) that I had ordered but the vendor reached out to tell me they would have to swap out the magazine for a 10 round one.

I said that was ok, but I’m sure a lot of places don’t want the hassle.

Since I already have a P320, I may or may not get one of these. I actually want a few Custom Works FCU’s, at msrp, plus tax and dros, but have to wait for Bonta or move out of state.

Now, that being said, I know if FA comes out with a CA365, I’m in, as I have nothing currently for that platform aside from ammo.


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  #164  
Old 01-17-2023, 7:47 AM
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Default CA320 on Roster

I do want to know why Franklin has to be manual safety but 2A Zone is not.

Franklin says that 2A zone is not yet on the roster and they don’t believe it will be due to the “missing” safety. We shall see.

Also, SIG is shipping only the “upper” and FCU - Franklin is not tossing out grips.
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  #165  
Old 01-17-2023, 10:01 AM
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Riflegear on Instagram posted they're receiving some next month.

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  #166  
Old 01-17-2023, 10:11 AM
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This is what 2a said in his thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
I do want to know why Franklin has to be manual safety but 2A Zone is not. No one at SHOT can answer that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waygeekierthanu View Post

Since the parallels will be draw, let's address them up front! The Franklin CA320 is less expensive and we WILL be carrying the CA320 in store also! They have a full manual safety, whereas we are using a Sig Custom Works FCU. The main reason for that? Sig wouldn't let us get anything else! It's shocking to me that we both were working on the same thing at the same time, finished about the same time, and got approved at the same time! Franklin is always furthing CA rights and I love that we even get the opportunity to say we are in the same room!
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  #167  
Old 01-17-2023, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
I do want to know why Franklin has to be manual safety but 2A Zone is not. No one at SHOT can answer that.
I was curious about that too.
I know the shooter is the true safety, but I like some of my guns to have safeties and some guns not to.

My current p320 does not have one.
I am leaning towards picking up one of these Franklins that has one and safety will stay.

The two pistols probably will not have the same roles.

My p365 with Sig cw fcu has a really sweet and light trigger.

When I built(ok…assembled it) I decided to order the Wilson grip frame and picked up the Sig safety parts and installed them.

I love the safety on it.
And I am more comfortable with additional styles of Carry if it ever ends up on my CCW.
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  #168  
Old 01-17-2023, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 2A2DEATH View Post
If things go as planned for Sig and Franklin armory I'm sure we will see the p365 next ca365
Then I will have to give them more of my money.
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  #169  
Old 01-17-2023, 2:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ir0nclash86 View Post
This is what 2a said in his thread
I am now going to speculate this is by design from Sig. Since they knew 2 shops were working on these...they maybe didn't want them to compete with each other...as it stands there are 2 distinct variants and likely customers will choose based on the desire for a manual safety or not.
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  #170  
Old 01-17-2023, 4:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
When someone buys a CA320, turns it into a P320 by replacing a grip module and buying magazines and wants it on their CCW, is it going to be listed as a Franklin Armory CA320 ? Or Sig Sauer P320? Just curios. Based on what I know , a CA320 is a SIG SAUER P320 with grip module that makes it a single shot. By replacing a grip module with one from Sig Arms and buying a magazine, one will end up with SIG SAUER P320. Unless I am missing something (?)
We won't know until we see if the fire control modules are marked as franklin armory.
As it stands from the existing photos, franklin put their name on the grip frame so if you throw away the franklin marked grip frame and install a sig marked grip frame, an FFL would only be able to DROS it as a SIG if its only marked as a SIG.

If the fire control modules are marked as franklin, then they should transfer them as franklin.
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  #171  
Old 01-18-2023, 12:51 AM
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Looks great, thanks!

Sorry for the novice question.... anyone knows which Sig P320 Grip Module sizes (Carry, Compact, etc.) would fit the CA320?

Thanks,

Quote:
Originally Posted by ir0nclash86 View Post
Riflegear on Instagram posted they're receiving some next month.

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  #172  
Old 01-18-2023, 6:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axhoaxho View Post
Looks great, thanks!



Sorry for the novice question.... anyone knows which Sig P320 Grip Module sizes (Carry, Compact, etc.) would fit the CA320?



Thanks,
All of them. It's a modular design. The CA320 is coming with a 3.9" barrel, and in my opinion the best grip frame for that barrel is the compact.

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  #173  
Old 01-18-2023, 6:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axhoaxho View Post
Looks great, thanks!

Sorry for the novice question.... anyone knows which Sig P320 Grip Module sizes (Carry, Compact, etc.) would fit the CA320?

Thanks,
Any and all P320 grips will fit.
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  #174  
Old 01-18-2023, 10:00 PM
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"Franklin says that 2A zone is not yet on the roster and they don’t believe it will be due to the “missing” safety. We shall see."

I didn't say that, and if someone in my booth said that, I apologize. I will say the statute requires one, but I suspect that that means that 2A Zone argued better than I did and got the state to agree that the trigger itself could be a manually articulated safety. I didn't want to take any chances.
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  #175  
Old 01-18-2023, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
I do want to know why Franklin has to be manual safety but 2A Zone is not.

Franklin says that 2A zone is not yet on the roster and they don’t believe it will be due to the “missing” safety. We shall see.

Also, SIG is shipping only the “upper” and FCU - Franklin is not tossing out grips.
It is now

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  #176  
Old 01-18-2023, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
All of them. It's a modular design. The CA320 is coming with a 3.9" barrel, and in my opinion the best grip frame for that barrel is the compact.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaJames83 View Post
Any and all P320 grips will fit.

Thanks!
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  #177  
Old 01-18-2023, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
"Franklin says that 2A zone is not yet on the roster and they don’t believe it will be due to the “missing” safety. We shall see."

I didn't say that, and if someone in my booth said that, I apologize. I will say the statute requires one, but I suspect that that means that 2A Zone argued better than I did and got the state to agree that the trigger itself could be a manually articulated safety. I didn't want to take any chances.
My guess is that the manual safety is only required on semi-autos and since they were not submitting a semi-auto, they got away without the safety.
Not many double action revolvers with manual safeties but lots of them on roster without a manual safety.
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  #178  
Old 01-19-2023, 5:43 AM
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The section is 31910 (b)(1) CPC. It relates to pistols. (a)(1-3) deals with revolvers. (b)(4+) deals with semiauto pistols. So in short, it is required of all pistols. He must have gotten CADOJ to agree that the trigger is the "positive manually operated safety device." And to that, I tip my hat and say, well done!
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  #179  
Old 01-19-2023, 3:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
The last few days have been busy getting ready for SHOT. We have noticed overwhelming interest since the state placed the CA320 on the roster. I am confident we can meet demand because we have the qualified resources to scale production up damatically. It is also my belief that Sig Sauer is very interested in fulfilling demand.

We will have 2 short term bottlenecks. Plastic has been ordered for molding in high volume. We did not invest in ready stock until we were sure it was on the roster. It is now on the way. Fixturing for mass production lasering and assembly will be worked on next week. It should be done by the time I get back from SHOT Show.

Rest assured that Franklin Armory will cover all warranty issues on this firearm.

Lastly, thank you all for looking at this project. This idea started many years ago when the P250 first came out. Due to changing laws and regulations, this project became a front burner item about 2 years ago. Now we are finally here!
first of all, wanted to express much appreciation and gratitude for all that you guys do. Love your company, love what you guys stand for.

Question - is the FCU in the CA320... a Sig Sauer brand FCU? (intellectual property, design, etc.) or will this be a Franklin Armory branded FCU?
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  #180  
Old 01-19-2023, 3:46 PM
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We receive the FCU from Sig.
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  #181  
Old 01-19-2023, 3:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
My guess is that the manual safety is only required on semi-autos and since they were not submitting a semi-auto, they got away without the safety.
Not many double action revolvers with manual safeties but lots of them on roster without a manual safety.
The section is 31910 (b)(1) CPC. It relates to pistols. (a)(1-3) deals with revolvers. (b)(4+) deals with semiauto pistols. So in short, it is required of all pistols. He must have gotten CADOJ to agree that the trigger is the "positive manually operated safety device." And to that, I tip my hat and say, well done!
Penal Code 31910
As used in this part, “unsafe handgun” means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, for which any of the following is true:
(b) For a pistol:
(1) It does not have a positive manually operated safety device, as determined by standards relating to imported guns promulgated by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 5 Article 2 Section 4049
Definition of Key Terms.
(p) “Pistol” means a handgun in which the chamber is part of the barrel. A pistol can either be semiautomatic or non-semiautomatic, but not fully automatic.
(t) “Revolver” means a handgun with a cylinder having several chambers so arranged as to rotate around an axis and be discharged successively by the same firing mechanism through a common barrel.
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  #182  
Old 01-19-2023, 4:02 PM
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[QUOTE=classicman213;27577380]I wonder if issuing agencies will allow for Single-shot/Single-action guns to be on CCW permits if converted to semi-auto configuration?

Depends on the IA.

The ones that had allowed SSE (2008-2014) guns on permits may continue.

But some IAs are sticklers, not wanting any mods differing from Roster
exemplar status (except for maybe grips/sights). [Could get interesting
if they demand mags be factory too!]

Much of this will take litigation to resolve.
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  #183  
Old 01-19-2023, 5:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
We receive the FCU from Sig.
Do you have Sig mark the FCU as a Franklin Armory FCU for you or do you do that as part of your manufacturing before the guns ship?
Other than the grip frame which could possibly be removed and replaced, what other parts of the rostered gun are specifically identified as Franklin Armory either by a franklin Armory specific serial number range or prefix or by actual markings as to Franklin Armory being the manufacturer?
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  #184  
Old 01-19-2023, 5:27 PM
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Default CA320 on Roster

Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
"Franklin says that 2A zone is not yet on the roster and they don’t believe it will be due to the “missing” safety. We shall see."

I didn't say that, and if someone in my booth said that, I apologize. I will say the statute requires one, but I suspect that that means that 2A Zone argued better than I did and got the state to agree that the trigger itself could be a manually articulated safety. I didn't want to take any chances.

Yes sir, someone in your booth did say the exact words in quotes when I said that many folks don’t like a manual safety and asked directly why yours had one and theirs did not.

If you can do it, it would be nice to add a version without safety - even if it’s in the same frame with the cutout for it.

At an LE organization I am familiar with, they found that after so many years of carrying another firearm w/o one, switching to the P320 with safety was getting officers “killed” in simulations due to muscle memory — so they went without it.

===========
I have two 2A zone pistols on my CA permit. Both have 2A zone laser-engraved an a blank part of the FCU and were originally DROS as 2A zone in gold color (SIG custom FCU). They also were were pawn-return as 2A zone in gold color to make them semi-auto.
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  #185  
Old 01-19-2023, 5:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
They're going to launch it next week at SHOT.

But, my best guess is that it's a Bolt Action Repeating Pistol based on the Sig Sauer P320 Modular Chassis design.

Very similar to their Bolt Action Repeating AR pattern pistols.
BOLT ACTION??? Who wants bolt action???

I want it to be lever action!
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  #186  
Old 01-19-2023, 6:26 PM
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"Do you have Sig mark the FCU as a Franklin Armory FCU for you or do you do that as part of your manufacturing before the guns ship?"

They are first marked by Sig and then we laser our make, model, city, and state as requires by the GCA.
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  #187  
Old 01-19-2023, 6:29 PM
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"Yes sir, someone in your booth did say the exact words"

Then I apologize to you and 2A Zone for our comment.
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  #188  
Old 01-19-2023, 7:26 PM
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Turner’s taking deposits. $929.99
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  #189  
Old 01-19-2023, 8:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
Yes sir, someone in your booth did say the exact words in quotes when I said that many folks don’t like a manual safety and asked directly why yours had one and theirs did not.

If you can do it, it would be nice to add a version without safety - even if it’s in the same frame with the cutout for it.

At an LE organization I am familiar with, they found that after so many years of carrying another firearm w/o one, switching to the P320 with safety was getting officers “killed” in simulations due to muscle memory — so they went without it.

===========
I have two 2A zone pistols on my CA permit. Both have 2A zone laser-engraved an a blank part of the FCU and were originally DROS as 2A zone in gold color (SIG custom FCU). They also were were pawn-return as 2A zone in gold color to make them semi-auto.

The safety comes off in about 2 minutes or less and one pin $15 goes in its place and you have a non MS fcu.
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  #190  
Old 01-19-2023, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
"Do you have Sig mark the FCU as a Franklin Armory FCU for you or do you do that as part of your manufacturing before the guns ship?"

They are first marked by Sig and then we laser our make, model, city, and state as requires by the GCA.
so down the road, if there is an issue with the FCU... who's warranty will be addressing the issue?

Sig Sauer or Franklin Armory?
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  #191  
Old 01-20-2023, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastandfurious View Post
so down the road, if there is an issue with the FCU... who's warranty will be addressing the issue?

Sig Sauer or Franklin Armory?
He literally stated in this thread that FA will take care of warranty on their ca320
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Truthfully, we cancelled your order because of your lack of civility and your threats ... What is a problem is when you threaten my customer service team and make demands instead of being civil. Plain and simple just don't be an a**hole (where you told us to shove it).
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  #192  
Old 01-20-2023, 10:39 AM
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Gonna be a great addition to the shop!
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  #193  
Old 01-21-2023, 3:01 PM
Garbcollector Garbcollector is online now
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I just put a deposit on one at turners they are going to start showing up in March sometime I was told
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  #194  
Old 01-23-2023, 2:05 PM
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Okay, I know you guys love stating that "all the grips fit it." However, what he was asking is which grips will drop on to it without having to change the slide or other major parts. Since it has the 3.9 inch barrel, and comes with the safety, you can swap it into either the compact or carry grip frames that are set up to run with the safety. Both of those will work with the slide length it comes with i believe. And those basic frames from Sig are running around $37 right now online. I believe Wilson Combat and maybe others make after market grip frames as well, if you prefer those instead. I think those are going for $47-55 online. The funny thing is that the basic 10 round magazines we need for here in the People's Republic cost more than the grip frames do.

Franklin Armory, thank you very much for doing this. Also, when you get inquiries from Cal Customs in Fallbrook about getting these, they are trying to track them down for me. Please, please, please have some in stock. Pretty please. I have been hounding them since this broke online last week. I am hoping to get this as soon as possible to try to add it to my CCW permit, and see if I can get the San Diego Sheriff's office to along with it. I mean, it IS on the roster now, isn't it?

-Mb
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  #195  
Old 01-23-2023, 7:16 PM
Thrashard340 Thrashard340 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gun toting monkeyboy View Post
Okay, I know you guys love stating that "all the grips fit it." However, what he was asking is which grips will drop on to it without having to change the slide or other major parts. Since it has the 3.9 inch barrel, and comes with the safety, you can swap it into either the compact or carry grip frames that are set up to run with the safety. Both of those will work with the slide length it comes with i believe. And those basic frames from Sig are running around $37 right now online. I believe Wilson Combat and maybe others make after market grip frames as well, if you prefer those instead. I think those are going for $47-55 online. The funny thing is that the basic 10 round magazines we need for here in the People's Republic cost more than the grip frames do.

Franklin Armory, thank you very much for doing this. Also, when you get inquiries from Cal Customs in Fallbrook about getting these, they are trying to track them down for me. Please, please, please have some in stock. Pretty please. I have been hounding them since this broke online last week. I am hoping to get this as soon as possible to try to add it to my CCW permit, and see if I can get the San Diego Sheriff's office to along with it. I mean, it IS on the roster now, isn't it?

-Mb
Very informative. Thanks for the post. I'll be keeping an eye out for one myself when it launches. I am hoping the LGS' will not be backlogged.
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  #196  
Old 01-23-2023, 8:38 PM
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Well I very happy FA went with the Sig Custom Works FCU since IMHO that is the absolute best one!
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  #197  
Old 01-23-2023, 9:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper3142 View Post
Well I very happy FA went with the Sig Custom Works FCU since IMHO that is the absolute best one!
FA didn't go with the CW FCU. They are using the one similar to the M17/18 FCU.

2A Zone is using the CW FCU.

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  #198  
Old 01-24-2023, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
FA didn't go with the CW FCU. They are using the one similar to the M17/18 FCU.

2A Zone is using the CW FCU.

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An FFL asked them at Shot Show, and they told them it was a custom works FCU in black.
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  #199  
Old 01-24-2023, 9:45 PM
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Quote:
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An FFL asked them at Shot Show, and they told them it was a custom works FCU in black.
That's news to me.

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Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.

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”Benitez 3:29 Thou shall not limit magazine capacity”
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  #200  
Old 01-24-2023, 11:36 PM
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I’m down for a 365– but when are those two Title 1s I ordered coming? Lol.
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