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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 01-17-2023, 2:12 AM
boredin818 boredin818 is offline
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Default Experiences while carrying

Anyone have any stories about experiences while carrying? It's always a good read.
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2023, 6:59 AM
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Someone’s bored in the 818

What particular stories? Displaying your firearm against threats or someone that leaves their firearm in the loo?
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Old 01-17-2023, 7:57 AM
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This thread is only a few months old.

Also, find member Paladin and hit the link in his signature.
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Old 01-17-2023, 8:50 PM
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I carry in Oregon all the time. If anyone has noticed and cared, they never said anything to me.

That's what one should expect.
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Old 01-18-2023, 11:41 PM
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The following is for entertainment purposes only— to stave off boredom:

Just the other day I woke up and put on my rig, just like any other day. I haven’t been carrying very long but, lately, I’ve taken to carrying my Sig p239
in a Palmetto appendix holster as my “winter rig” as it conceals nicely in cold weather garb and I happen to love metal-framed da/sa pistols. I did add an extra coat of oil the night before as it was supposed to rain and I was planning on taking my boy and his friend fishing.

So, I loaded up the car with fishing gear, water, and lots of snacks and off we went. We took an isolated winding mountain road up to the lake. At one point we drove around a blind corner when, suddenly, there was a large rock in road. It had fallen down the hill in the rain in the night. Seeing that the rock presented a clear and present danger to our very lives, I considered shooting it (j/k) but, instead, chose to simply steer around it.

Then we spotted three wild hogs grazing by the road. I thought to myself “dammit, I just spent a ton of money on a guided pig hunt and NOW here they are RIGHT THERE”.

My son knew exactly what I was thinking as he said, “those are too close to the road to shoot, Dad”. So on I drove. (To be clear, I wasn’t really going to shoot them. But, you never know out there. I might have had to stop to pee and some wild hogs could have charged me, in which case I would have had a better chance of fending them off with my CCW than not)!

On we drove to a likely spot for some hungry fish. I quickly learned that my appendix rig is not conducive to squatting down and washing worms guts off my fingers while perched on a rock 2’ above the water line. I also had to be mindful not to let my jacket slide up and expose my gun while casting. But all went well. Our lines were in the water, it wasn’t raining after all, and the boys were having fun after being stuck indoors for two days straight. We were an hour away from civilization, though, and the road was 30 yards behind and 20 yards above us and we hadn’t seen a soul. Then, a rusty old truck pulled off the road right behind us. Two guys got out and looked around. I’m pretty sure I heard solo banjo play. Then one called down, “Any luck?”

“Not yet,” I replied. They waved and got in their truck and drove off. We fished that spot a while longer without a bite then moved to another spot. Once again we were alone. It was late afternoon by this time and we heard an owl waking up. The hills were green with fresh grass.

Then, another dad came by with three younger kids in tow. He was struggling with having to carry multiple poles, a day pack, and a cooler as he traversed the steep bank. As he turned to check on a straggling rug-rat I noticed the handle
of pistol in the small of his back. “That would make bending over so much easier,” I thought.

“Any luck?” He asked.

“No bites whatsoever,” I replied. “I think they are all full from all the worms two weeks of rain have brought.”

“Yeah, probably.” He said. “At least we are all out of the house, right?”

“That’s right,” I said. “It’s a beautiful day.”
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2023, 8:09 AM
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I blew the lint out if the g19 today. Scraped off a few patches of dead skin/deodorant /lint flakes off the crossbreed holster leather. Checked the Chicago screws and rivets.

Then put it back on and went on my day.

As Ice Cube said " I did int even hav to keel no botty......today was a goot day".
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Old 01-24-2023, 1:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokerB View Post
I blew the lint out if the g19 today. Scraped off a few patches of dead skin/deodorant /lint flakes off the crossbreed holster leather. Checked the Chicago screws and rivets.

Then put it back on and went on my day.

As Ice Cube said " I did int even hav to keel no botty......today was a goot day".
Don't misquote Cube, he never said that.
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Old 01-24-2023, 8:00 PM
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You better chek yo self be fo yo req you self....


My quote from memory was pretty dam close.

"Today, I didn't even have to use my AK
I gotta say it was a good day"

https://www.google.com/search?q=ice+...obile&ie=UTF-8
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Old 01-24-2023, 8:53 PM
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My wife and I were invited to a Christmas Light/laser show in Palos Verdes by her son and daughter in law. (DIL is very anti gun) We met for dinner ahead of time, then they suggested we drive to the light show together in their car.

We arrived at the entrance with at least 50 others going in at the same time.
Going through the entrance, a guy called me over to the side and put his hand out to stop me, saying that I set off the metal detector (it looked like part of the Christmas decorations) and that he had to check me with the wand. As he was checking me I held my arm down over my 1911.
He didn't find anything
" Ok, enjoy the show" he said.

The first thing to go through my head was someone screaming "He's got a gun"and having a mass panic.
Or my DIL being pissed about me bringing a weapon in her car with the grand daughter.

My only story about almost being exposed
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Old 01-24-2023, 11:05 PM
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I carried my double-locked Walther P22 box with an unloaded, mag separated, Walther P22 and 4 mags to the range.

Next to it was a disabled by cable-lock, thick padlocked AR-15 rifle box that held my unloaded, 4 mags separated in box, M&P 15-22.

I got in the range. The range attendant asked me to show everything.
I took out my 2 pound pile of keys.

Pulled out my boxes.
Oh yeah, forgot I had an ammo box, with ammo separate inside. Luckily with a combination lock with one less key I have to carry.

It took about 2-3 minutes to completely unlock both guns to the point where I can flip open the boxes to show the fire range staff my guns.

Also I did have to de-code the combination lock on the ammo box.

They looked inside, "good to go".

I immediately locked both boxes up again, the double-locked pistol box, and single thick padlocked rifle box.

Then I carried both, again locked, into the range.

"Today was a good day". I put about 100 rounds of CCI through. About 70 through the rifle. Maybe 30 through the pistol.

I wiped off all the gun powder and empty shells from inside the rifle box on the platform in front of the area the rounds go through.

Locked all of the boxes again. Put the pistol box and ammo box together in my backpack. Locked.

Carried the disabled rifle, inside thick padlocked box out the range.

Put both in my trunk.
Luckily, the sun had set by the time I got home.
Possibly if a neighbor saw me carrying everything up, they would just assume I'm carrying a guitar in a guitar box. Maybe I should have gotten a guitar box instead for the rifle.

Then Saturday and Sunday came. The rifle had logged about 300 rounds through without failure over it's most recent cleaning.

The pistol started to show signs of wear at the range, it had probably logged about 100 rounds at 3 different range trips since cleaning.

My legs usually fall asleep when servicing/field stripping/cleaning/lubricating both guns. Rather than service both rifle and pistol same day, I did the rifle Saturday.
The pistol on Sunday.

Of course they're both locked away. The pistol and ammo in separate individual locked containers are in a backpack. Somewhere they cannot be seen in my rental by maintenance and property staff.
The rifle is hidden behind a TV box, also locked the same way outside and disabled inside.

Due to the California Bureau of Firearms guide on when it is permissible to "brandish" or "use" your weapon, I thought, "Man.. the only time it would be is if some terrorist came into the neighborhood specifically for me, and started firing an AK though my windows. FIRST"
"I would have 2-3 minutes to just unlock both my weapons."
"It would take 2-3 minutes to load up all mags on the pistol and rifle under distress".
"It would take a minute to strap on my competition pistol and mag strap, and my rifle/pistol mag carrying strap"

And unless he didn't stop firing through my little residence, only then would I be able to fire back in 'response' to the threat.

It comforts me that if this terrorist was to spend at least 5 minutes firing through before entering, I would be ready for him or her.

However, would I be better off reaching for my cell phone in that 5 minutes and putting 911 on speaker phone? or having 911 on speaker phone as shots are coming through the openings in the residence?

Then, I remembered, "would I even be able to fire back at a live person?"
And I thought to myself, "Guess I'm probably better off not having a CCW".
Since according to safety recommendations of storing firearms, I would not be able to be ready.
And there isn't any event I suspect I would need a ready loaded firearm in Southern California to use on anyone in California based on my whereabouts, or be able to use with the best practices of Bureau of Firearms policy on the OAG website, according to California law.

Let's just hope that nobody comes and starts firing through my residence.
Let's just hope it's an idiotic unarmed thief, that I can judo throw out the front door with my black belt candidacy that ended prior to COVID-19 beginning and dojo's closing.

"Today was a good day, I didn't have to use my M&P 15-22".
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Old 01-25-2023, 2:01 PM
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Over the holidays we had a big Christmas dinner over at my in laws. There's one cousin of my wife who is very anti gun and leans far left. We had a thanksgiving dinner prior and she had gone on a tangent about guns for self defense and that anyone who carries guns for self defense is crazy.

I made it my goal that Christmas dinner day to carry my full size CCW piece and give her a full hug from the front. Since I carry appendix I'm sure she felt how hard my piece was.

Wife mentioned later that evening that her cousin had been asking around if I had a colonoscopy bag.
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Old 01-25-2023, 2:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geedavell View Post
My wife and I were invited to a Christmas Light/laser show in Palos Verdes by her son and daughter in law. (DIL is very anti gun) We met for dinner ahead of time, then they suggested we drive to the light show together in their car.

We arrived at the entrance with at least 50 others going in at the same time.
Going through the entrance, a guy called me over to the side and put his hand out to stop me, saying that I set off the metal detector (it looked like part of the Christmas decorations) and that he had to check me with the wand. As he was checking me I held my arm down over my 1911.
He didn't find anything
" Ok, enjoy the show" he said.

The first thing to go through my head was someone screaming "He's got a gun"and having a mass panic.
Or my DIL being pissed about me bringing a weapon in her car with the grand daughter.

My only story about almost being exposed
Nice, a similar similar story for my nephew and I meeting some family for dinner at the Stratosphere Hotel and Casino for dinner. The reservations where for the fancy place up near the top. My nephew had never been & I didn't have any recollection of metal detectors. We knew we weren't breaking any laws if we got caught so we continued through.

Of course we each set off the metal detector, we were each wanded. We each showed them our metal belt buckles and happily waved-on...security theater at its finest.

Other experiences...totally lost count the number of times my granddaughter came running and throwing her arms around me for a big hug. Head at height of gun - CLUNK. It took her a few times to learn to slow down...
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Old 01-25-2023, 3:08 PM
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So you are dead set against using your weapon for self defense, even in your home? Firearms are for sporting only? Ok, that's a legitimate choice that people make.

As far as recommendations for storing firearms though, they are recommendations. If you have kids in the house, that's a whole different matter. Your guns need to be inaccessible to them. But if no kids, you have the option to keep your firearm locked and loaded, ready for bear as long as it is in close proximity to you. Does not have to be locked.
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Old 01-25-2023, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rickybillegas View Post
So you are dead set against using your weapon for self defense, even in your home? Firearms are for sporting only? Ok, that's a legitimate choice that people make.

As far as recommendations for storing firearms though, they are recommendations. If you have kids in the house, that's a whole different matter. Your guns need to be inaccessible to them. But if no kids, you have the option to keep your firearm locked and loaded, ready for bear as long as it is in close proximity to you. Does not have to be locked.
I think there is only one kid in the house.
Myself.
I am a giant 37 year old kid with toys that need to be locked up when it's not playtime.

I have to earn the play time. Until the playtime is earned, and I am rewarded, they stay locked up and it's time out.
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Old 01-26-2023, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by The Hamsterball View Post
I think there is only one kid in the house.
Myself.
I am a giant 37 year old kid with toys that need to be locked up when it's not playtime.

I have to earn the play time. Until the playtime is earned, and I am rewarded, they stay locked up and it's time out.
That's cool. I've gone through my entire life up to this point without needing a firearm for self defense, and I'm a lot older than you.

My motto has always been; to keep out of trouble, stay out of trouble. In other words, avoid dangerous situations and when they do arise, de-escalate. Don't be a jerk. Don't get wasted and out of control. Gauge every situation that's potentially dangerous and act accordingly. It's served me well so far. On the other hand, you never know if you'll run into someone that wants to kill you or do great bodily injury for whatever reason.

Whether we use guns for self defense, or not, it's a gamble either way, and we make our choices.
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Old 01-26-2023, 9:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Rickybillegas View Post
That's cool. I've gone through my entire life up to this point without needing a firearm for self defense, and I'm a lot older than you.

My motto has always been; to keep out of trouble, stay out of trouble. In other words, avoid dangerous situations and when they do arise, de-escalate. Don't be a jerk. Don't get wasted and out of control. Gauge every situation that's potentially dangerous and act accordingly. It's served me well so far. On the other hand, you never know if you'll run into someone that wants to kill you or do great bodily injury for whatever reason.

Whether we use guns for self defense, or not, it's a gamble either way, and we make our choices.
Yeah.
I did judo from 2008 to 2019, was a black belt candidate prior to COVID-19 beginning.
COVID-19 eliminated my ability to get my black belt.

What I learned those younger years.
Always avoid danger.
Evade, evade, evade, deflect, and escape.

If someone pulls a knife on you, evade, evade, deflect.

And most importantly, like yourself, never put yourself in a position where you have to use hand-to-hand on someone.
That means not going to places you're likely to have to defend yourself.

Served me well.

Some guy at the range a week ago said, "You wouldn't pull a pistol out on somebody trying to knife you?".

Well I straight up said to him.. "If they are close enough to use a knife on you, you are too close to them to use a pistol on them."
Also told him California law does not warrant shooting someone who pulls a knife out on you.

Honestly, this may be against the forum I'm posting in.
If I had a CCW, it would not be helpful unless I was in a location and situation that warranted using a firearm to defend yourself.

All of us gun owners are law abiding citizens for the most part.
That CCW, would be rendered useless for me, because I don't put myself in those kind of situations or locations of risk.

To each their own.
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Old 01-26-2023, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by The Hamsterball View Post
Some guy at the range a week ago said, "You wouldn't pull a pistol out on somebody trying to knife you?".

Well I straight up said to him.. "If they are close enough to use a knife on you, you are too close to them to use a pistol on them."
Also told him California law does not warrant shooting someone who pulls a knife out on you.
I don’t know where you get all this???

As mentioned in the other thread with your post on rifles - please take classes (from a reputable instructor), take training and practice…

_

Last edited by rodralig; 01-26-2023 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 01-26-2023, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
I don’t know where you get all this???

As mentioned in the other thread with your post on rifles - please take classes (from a reputable instructor), take training and practice…

_
This is my bible:
https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/media/cfl2021.pdf

Written by CA Bureau of Firearms Attorney General's office.

Also, I used to work with attorneys, and I myself follow a very conservative definition of bodily harm causing death.

"Permissible Use of Lethal Force to Resist Threats of Death or Great Bodily Injury or to Resist
the Commission of Forcible and Atrocious Felonies
The killing of one person by another may be justifiable when necessary to resist the imminent
threat of death, great bodily injury, or the commission of a forcible and atrocious felony,
provided that (a) the person using lethal force reasonably believed they, or someone else, was in
imminent danger of death, great bodily injury, or being a victim of a forcible and atrocious
felony; (b) the person using lethal force reasonably believed that the immediate use of deadly
force was necessary to defend against that danger; and (c) the person using lethal force used no
more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger. The danger must be
imminent and cannot merely be a belief in future harm. The belief in imminent danger must be
reasonable and the person using lethal force must have done so only because of that belief. A
person may use such force, up to lethal force, as a reasonable person in the same or similar
circumstances would believe necessary to prevent the imminent danger of death, great bodily
injury, or being a victim of a forcible and atrocious crime.
Great bodily injury means significant or substantial physical injury, not merely a minor or
moderate injury. A forcible and atrocious crime is any felony that by its nature and the manner of
its commission threatens, or is reasonably believed by the person to threaten, life or great bodily
11
injury so as to instill in the person a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury. (People v.
Ceballos (1974) 12 Cal.3d 470, 478.) Murder, mayhem, rape, and certain instances of robbery
are examples of forcible and atrocious crimes."

To me this means, only in "response" to a threat of death.
"with equivalent force" as the "aggressor".
or to "prevent a murder".

This is California, not Nebraska.

You are welcome to make your own argument.
To each their own.
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Old 01-27-2023, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hamsterball View Post
Well I straight up said to him.. "If they are close enough to use a knife on you, you are too close to them to use a pistol on them."
Also told him California law does not warrant shooting someone who pulls a knife out on you.
“California law does not warrant shooting someone who pulls a knife out on you.”

But apparently, if they don’t have a knife and they are simply kicking you, you can shoot them. Either you or the Sacramento DA doesn’t understand the law.this wrong?
Quote:
At one point, it appeared to her one of the men was kicking Gardner in the head “like it was a soccer ball,” according to a Sacramento police investigator’s report in the court file.

The report said Gardner then retrieved his Ruger LCR .38 revolver and fired at one of the men who had him on the ground, hitting him in the abdomen with the bullet passing through his body without hitting any organs. Officials said the man survived the shooting.

Sacramento prosecutors filed two counts on Gardner related to his possession of the gun, for which he had a carry permit. The permit, however, was invalid if he was under the influence of alcohol or drugs, which led to the criminal filing. Prosecutors dismissed the other count on Gardner of carrying a concealed weapon in public.

Chief Deputy District Attorney Steve Grippi said Friday the shooting appeared to be in self-defense. “We felt there was sufficient evidence we couldn’t overcome self-defense,” Grippi said in an interview.
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Old 01-27-2023, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
“California law does not warrant shooting someone who pulls a knife out on you.”

But apparently, if they don’t have a knife and they are simply kicking you, you can shoot them. Either you or the Sacramento DA doesn’t understand the law.this wrong?
That statement from him is rather odd.

I’d hope if he has a CCW, just leave it at home. It’s dead weight.
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Old 01-27-2023, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
“California law does not warrant shooting someone who pulls a knife out on you.”

But apparently, if they don’t have a knife and they are simply kicking you, you can shoot them. Either you or the Sacramento DA doesn’t understand the law.this wrong?
I am not an attorney, and cannot provide legal advice.

My hope is if any of you get into an incident where you use your CCW firearm on someone, it gets appealed to federal court so you have a better chance of winning with the prosecutor and judge determining you were in act of self-defense.

I myself, would rather not spend 60-90 days in jail awaiting trial for such an incident.

I'm going to start ignoring this thread now.
I provided the case that supercedes all other cases, and is the standard for use of a firearm in California.
It is written and codified in the gun control regulations in that document.

Whether or not you agree with the OAG, or have opinions against them, is not under my control.
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Old 01-27-2023, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC View Post
That statement from him is rather odd.

I’d hope if he has a CCW, just leave it at home. It’s dead weight.
He doesn’t:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hamsterball View Post
Honestly, this may be against the forum I'm posting in.
If I had a CCW, it would not be helpful unless I was in a location and situation that warranted using a firearm to defend yourself.

All of us gun owners are law abiding citizens for the most part.
That CCW, would be rendered useless for me, because I don't put myself in those kind of situations or locations of risk.
But, also:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hamsterball View Post
This is my bible:
https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/media/cfl2021.pdf

Written by CA Bureau of Firearms Attorney General's office.

Also, I used to work with attorneys, and I myself follow a very conservative definition of bodily harm causing death.
So he’s got that going for him. He’s worked with attorneys and the DOJ Summary of Laws indoctrination is his Bible. Of course that tells us in the Introduction:
Quote:
Persons having specific questions are encouraged to seek legal advice from an attorney, or consult their local law enforcement agency, local prosecutor, or law library. The California Department of Justice (DOJ) and all other public entities are immune from any liability arising from the drafting, publication, dissemination, or reliance upon this information.
It’s been a while but I don’t recall language like that in the Book of Genesis.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 01-27-2023 at 1:02 PM..
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Old 01-27-2023, 1:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
He doesn’t:
But, also:So he’s got that going for him. He’s worked with attorneys and the DOJ Summary of Laws indoctrination is his Bible. Of course that tells us in the Introduction:It’s been a while but I don’t recall language like that in the Book of Genesis.
Makes sense

While I doubt there’s been someone locked up for 60-90 days in jail with a legitimate SD case using their CCW, not sure that’s how it works…

One can learn a bit from taking the required CCW class (when one decides to apply for a CCW) as they cover the law aspect and aftermath.

But hey, Dvrjon and I as well as others are just a bunch of guys on the interwebs.
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Old 01-27-2023, 1:11 PM
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Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
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Originally Posted by The Hamsterball View Post
I am not an attorney, and cannot provide legal advice.

My hope is if any of you get into an incident where you use your CCW firearm on someone, it gets appealed to federal court so you have a better chance of winning with the prosecutor and judge determining you were in act of self-defense.

I myself, would rather not spend 60-90 days in jail awaiting trial for such an incident.

I'm going to start ignoring this thread now.
I provided the case that supercedes all other cases, and is the standard for use of a firearm in California.
It is written and codified in the gun control regulations in that document.

Whether or not you agree with the OAG, or have opinions against them, is not under my control.
Ignore away. But it’s what you learn after you know it all that counts. Hang around…you will learn something.

1. You aren’t expected to provide legal advice. You made a statement and I refuted it with a specific example that you can shoot somebody who is kicking the crap out of you. Ergo, you can also shoot somebody who is assaulting you with a knife. You can’t defend your position because it’s ill-informed and wrong. No legal advice required.

2. If someone uses their firearm in a valid self-defense action they don’t need to appeal to anybody. And in an appeal there is no determination of guilt or innocence; only error in the lower court findings.

3. The quotation you provided is not a “case that supersedes all other cases and is not a standard for use of a firearm in California.” It is the condensation of the terms of the Penal Code into broad layman’s language. But it is the Penal Code and case law derived from it which provide the definitive language regarding use of a firearm for self-defense.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 01-28-2023 at 6:16 PM..
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Old 01-27-2023, 1:25 PM
mk2dave mk2dave is offline
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Originally Posted by The Hamsterball View Post
Also told him California law does not warrant shooting someone who pulls a knife out on you.
While dependent on circumstances, this as a blanket statement just isn't correct.

A knife attack would certainly qualify as risk of death or great bodily harm. That little excerpt you included says you can use deadly force in this instance.

What this seems to boil down to is this: 'Then, I remembered, "would I even be able to fire back at a live person?"'

The answer seems to be no. But don't blame this on the law. It's YOUR determination. And you are the only one that has to live with your decisions, and I support your position if it works for you. To suggest your decision has some legal grounding seems a bit disingenuous.
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Old 01-27-2023, 1:35 PM
Rickybillegas Rickybillegas is offline
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Well, of course a knife has the potential for great bodily injury.
Taht's ridiculous.
Personally, for me, I'm going to use my firearm in self defense if I'm attacked by a knife wielding person. I'll deal with the aftermath, and if it means dealing with the law and Attorneys, I rather that than being sliced up, mutilated and maybe killed.

I was taught to treat close up encounters, which entails holding the weapon up against your chest at an angle and pointing it in the direction of the attack. Never hold your firearm out close enough for the person to swipe or knock it away. Try to avoid close encounters in the first place. Nothing is sure to work in a dangerous flash, but think about scenarios and prepare as best you can. Nothings guaranteed but your life might depend upon it.
Try to avoid close encounters in the first place.
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Old 01-27-2023, 2:53 PM
NorCalBusa NorCalBusa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hamsterball View Post
This is my bible:
https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/media/cfl2021.pdf

Written by CA Bureau of Firearms Attorney General's office.

Also, I used to work with attorneys, and I myself follow a very conservative definition of bodily harm causing death.

"Permissible Use of Lethal Force to Resist Threats of Death or Great Bodily Injury or to Resist
the Commission of Forcible and Atrocious Felonies
The killing of one person by another may be justifiable when necessary to resist the imminent
threat of death, great bodily injury, or the commission of a forcible and atrocious felony,
provided that (a) the person using lethal force reasonably believed they, or someone else, was in
imminent danger of death, great bodily injury, or being a victim of a forcible and atrocious
felony; (b) the person using lethal force reasonably believed that the immediate use of deadly
force was necessary to defend against that danger; and (c) the person using lethal force used no
more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger. The danger must be
imminent and cannot merely be a belief in future harm. The belief in imminent danger must be
reasonable and the person using lethal force must have done so only because of that belief. A
person may use such force, up to lethal force, as a reasonable person in the same or similar
circumstances would believe necessary to prevent the imminent danger of death, great bodily
injury, or being a victim of a forcible and atrocious crime.
Great bodily injury means significant or substantial physical injury, not merely a minor or
moderate injury. A forcible and atrocious crime is any felony that by its nature and the manner of
its commission threatens, or is reasonably believed by the person to threaten, life or great bodily
11
injury so as to instill in the person a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury. (People v.
Ceballos (1974) 12 Cal.3d 470, 478.) Murder, mayhem, rape, and certain instances of robbery
are examples of forcible and atrocious crimes."

To me this means, only in "response" to a threat of death.
"with equivalent force" as the "aggressor".
or to "prevent a murder".

This is California, not Nebraska.

You are welcome to make your own argument.
To each their own.
Isn't that the office that's trying to take away everyone's firearms? And you are taking advice from them without mention of case law?
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Old 01-29-2023, 11:44 AM
The Hamsterball The Hamsterball is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalBusa View Post
Isn't that the office that's trying to take away everyone's firearms? And you are taking advice from them without mention of case law?
Okay. That's it.
There is mention of case law:
(People v. Ceballos (1974) )

Although I cannot provide legal advice, since I am not an attorney, and you guys will do as you please any way.

I'll try to be nice.

Every court case is different. There is no fine line that draws acceptable drawing and firing of a weapon.

For example:
If a person is threatening you and just gang banging waving a knife at you to threaten you verbally.
Sorry, guess what, you cannot even draw your weapon in California against him.
You're better off just getting in your car and driving away and calling the police so they can handle it.

If you have no way of escaping, and you are drawn back into a corner, with no exit and the person is not only threatening you with a knife, and then slashing at you and cutting you.
Then in that situation, you may draw your weapon and fire at him.
But ONLY to the extent that he cannot swing a knife at you anymore.

If a person next door is firing at your drug dealing neighbor, and then you put the police on speakerphone, and then he hears you, and then starts firing a few shots through your window before running off into his car to escape.
Guess what.
You are not allowed to go chase after him with your firearm and shoot at him to stop him.


That brings me to my original posts.
This kind of sh** rarely ever happens.
Where the hell do you guys hang out that people start slashing knives at you for no reason?
What bars do you go to?

Better off just playing it safe and staying home on New Year's Eve.
That's what I do every year.

Yeah. Being safe isn't fun. But if you can play it safe and make smart decisions and not have to use your firearm, that's better than having to use it.

smh.
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  #29  
Old 01-29-2023, 7:58 PM
mk2dave mk2dave is offline
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I hope you don't think you are educating anyone here. At least no one that has been through quality training.

What I am confident of is that you don't think you need a firearm for self defense. Which is totally groovy, although your presence here is a bit confusing.

But on the off chance you do need to defend yourself from an intruder in your house, your plan is to judo throw them out. Got it.

I think almost everyone here will tell you the chance we will have to use our tools on any given day is incredibly small. Very similar to having to "use" your seat belt. And even though use is exceedingly rare, I still put on my seat belt. I'm sure you do, too. I don't drive recklessly or too quickly, I don't commute when others are getting out of the bar, and I don't drink and drive. These statistically are the situations that increase your need for a seat belt. And, just like the need for my pistol is microscopic on any given day, so is the seat belt. But I still put it on.

I'm also really confused that you have your weapons set up at home so they can be deployed in a timely 300 seconds, but I think that's probably a different issue.
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Old 01-29-2023, 8:12 PM
mk2dave mk2dave is offline
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Forgot to mention that with a CCW, you can't carry inside a bar. The whole conception of CCW holders looking for trouble is a bit misguided. It's for when trouble comes looking for us. And although rare, it happens. Last summer, there was over 45 break ins by a Chilean gang from LA in a specific neighborhood near me. Each house was worth $1.5M+. This is specifically the trouble the owners were hoping to avoid. Yet, trouble came looking for them. It happens.
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Old 01-29-2023, 8:53 PM
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I'm not sure what Hamsterball is getting at. The scenarios he mentions are ones where the threat is not immediate (waving knife at a distance, fleeing attacker) so lethal force cannot be used.

The law does not particularly distinguish between levels of deadly force, so using a gun on a knife-wielding attacker is a perfectly legitimate use of force. In some cases, the attacker does not have to be armed. There was a mandatory Sexual Harassment training at work, where the opening scenario where a supervisor said some coercive things when alone with a female employee, and then grabbed her wrist. The video stopped there for Q&A. I pointed out that the woman could have used lethal force at that point (this was NOT the answer they were looking for). Later in the training the scenario continued, with a co-worker just happening by and the guy was reported to HR, rather than admitted to the ER.

As to where I go that could be so dangerous? Gas stations and the occasional convenience store. Parking lots. Oddly enough, gun ranges. If I drive to see the kids, there are some pretty sketchy places between here and there.
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Old 02-01-2023, 2:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk2dave View Post
I hope you don't think you are educating anyone here. At least no one that has been through quality training.

although your presence here is a bit confusing.
He's only been here a month. DOJ plant?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mk2dave View Post
Forgot to mention that with a CCW, you can't carry inside a bar.
Theoretically you could carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol vs a bar that serves food though right? A bar's primary service is to serve alcohol while a restaurant is the latter.
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Old 02-01-2023, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by madland View Post
Theoretically you could carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol vs a bar that serves food though right? A bar's primary service is to serve alcohol while a restaurant is the latter.
ya, from my understanding, regarding restaurants that serve alcohol, you would be fine (as long you’re not drinking of course) but I think it becomes a grey area and possibly problematic if you’re seated in the bar area like at Chilli’s. Another grey area for me would be at a place like Dave & Buster’s that is more or less a bar that has a restaurant that would probably definitely be a no go after the restaurant closes.
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Old 02-01-2023, 8:14 PM
mk2dave mk2dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madland View Post
He's only been here a month. DOJ plant?!



Theoretically you could carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol vs a bar that serves food though right? A bar's primary service is to serve alcohol while a restaurant is the latter.
I doubt the "DOJ plant" hypothesis, but it is possible. I more meant it was odd that someone that doesn't seem to have experience or knowledge regarding the training involved with CCW would be lurking around and starting threads on the CCW forum. Nothing wrong with it, there will be no Double Secret Probation, I just find it odd.

Regarding the bar... I was responding to Hamsterball's scenarios, and "Bar" was specified. So that's what I was responding to. You ARE right, bars are different than restaurant/bar. I use 21 and older establishments as my go/no go gauge. Doubt it would hold up in court, but short of asking the Manager to open the books, it seems to work.
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