Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calguns LEOs
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-21-2020, 3:29 PM
68WhiskeyNCoke 68WhiskeyNCoke is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default LEO Exemptions for SBR/Suppressor use

Gents,

Any legal experts on here know the specifics of law enforcement exemptions for federally classified SBR's and suppressors?

According to PC 33220 (b):

"The possession of short-barreled rifles and short-barreled shotguns by peace officer members of a police department, sheriff’s office, marshal’s office, the California Highway Patrol, the Department of Justice, or the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, when on duty and the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties, and the officers have completed a training course in the use of these weapons certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training."

Does "authorized by agency" simply mean a letter from the Chief/Sheriff authorizing Rifle X w/ serial # X as an approved duty patrol rifle?

There is a similar PC regarding suppressors as well.

Anyone in the know?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-21-2020, 3:39 PM
elpaisa1 elpaisa1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 243
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Sounds to me like it's intended for use while on duty and you have to be probably trained in it's use.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-21-2020, 3:46 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: canoga park, ca
Posts: 19,423
iTrader: 109 / 100%
Default

None except for on duty as required use. They have no kings x on these.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-21-2020, 3:52 PM
Icypu's Avatar
Icypu Icypu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: S Pasadena / Havana
Posts: 1,035
iTrader: 66 / 100%
Default

As long as you have the firearm training for a SBS and are authorized to use it youll be fine. But transferring a new SBS is not going to happen in a CA FFL. Building one from a regular registered shotgun is not going to authorized either. There is a narrow exception for c&r receivers and one other.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk
__________________
Quote:
“Every time we don’t spend money, more carbon is emitted into the atmosphere,” State -Sen. Kevin de León
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-21-2020, 4:32 PM
68WhiskeyNCoke 68WhiskeyNCoke is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I'm referring to a duty use parol rifle, so it would seem that PC exemption above would apply, yes?

There is also no specific POST training on short-barreled rifles and or suppressors, so the regular 24-Hour POST patrol rifle class is the only "training" that would apply.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-21-2020, 4:46 PM
SVT-40's Avatar
SVT-40 SVT-40 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Az
Posts: 12,505
iTrader: 47 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68WhiskeyNCoke View Post
I'm referring to a duty use parol rifle, so it would seem that PC exemption above would apply, yes?

There is also no specific POST training on short-barreled rifles and or suppressors, so the regular 24-Hour POST patrol rifle class is the only "training" that would apply.
Departments own the SBRs and the suppressors which Officers use. They are not personally owned.

You can't legally own a SBR or suppressor as a LEO. There is no personal exemption for LEO's in the PC.
__________________
Poke'm with a stick!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddletown View Post
What you believe and what is true in real life in the real world aren't necessarily the same thing. And what you believe doesn't change what is true in real life in the real world.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-21-2020, 6:29 PM
esy esy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,214
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Why do you need or want a SBR for duty use?

Personally, I don’t see a huge need for a SBR. Shortest I would go is a 14.5” barrel with a pinned and welded brake. My rifle is 16” not including my brake.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-21-2020, 7:37 PM
Spyder's Avatar
Spyder Spyder is offline
Honorary MLC
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In a shack, in the woods
Posts: 16,068
iTrader: 126 / 100%
Default

Motorcycles and room entry come to mind as good uses.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-21-2020, 7:41 PM
Icypu's Avatar
Icypu Icypu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: S Pasadena / Havana
Posts: 1,035
iTrader: 66 / 100%
Default

You can own a SBR and or an SBS as a peace officer, however the difficulties of possessing one require overlapping exemptions and special FFLs or grandfathering. The exception is 30630 CA PC.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk
__________________
Quote:
“Every time we don’t spend money, more carbon is emitted into the atmosphere,” State -Sen. Kevin de León
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-21-2020, 7:54 PM
P5Ret P5Ret is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SF Ebay
Posts: 6,188
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icypu View Post
You can own a SBR and or an SBS as a peace officer, however the difficulties of possessing one require overlapping exemptions and special FFLs or grandfathering. The exception is 30630 CA PC.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk
I'm not too sure that section would allow possession of an NFA controlled SBR or SBS. Someone would still have to jump through all the hoops required for it federally, and the state's own special hoop. I think we all know how getting the dangerous weapons permit from the state will go, since the law is pretty clear on who and what uses they will issue a permit for.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-21-2020, 7:58 PM
9Cal_OC's Avatar
9Cal_OC 9Cal_OC is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: OC
Posts: 6,377
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
I'm not too sure that section would allow possession of an NFA controlled SBR or SBS. Someone would still have to jump through all the hoops required for it federally, and the state's own special hoop. I think we all know how getting the dangerous weapons permit from the state will go, since the law is pretty clear on who and what uses they will issue a permit for.
CA silly “dangerous weapon” permit is a joke.
__________________
Freedom isn't free...



iTrader
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-21-2020, 8:08 PM
M1NM M1NM is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: West Covina
Posts: 7,756
iTrader: 54 / 100%
Default

I doubt a dept will allow their officers to purchase either. This is a blanket get out of jail free for possession and use of NFA items in the course of normal duties. These would be owned by the dept and issued on as needed basis with strict controls.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-21-2020, 8:51 PM
68WhiskeyNCoke 68WhiskeyNCoke is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Sounds like it would be a legal nightmare and not worth the effort.

I wonder if it would change anything if said SBR was already owned (Form 1'd in another state). You would still have to bring the thing legally into CA, though.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-21-2020, 9:14 PM
esy esy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,214
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
Motorcycles and room entry come to mind as good uses.
I’m not motors so I can’t speak on that personally. A lot of the motors guys I know run or have run 16” barrels, and that’s the extent of my knowledge.

I can see the benefits for someone on SWAT, but in a patrol setting, I just don’t see it. My rifle comes out on surround and call outs and on very limited building/house clearings where I have a decent idea of the interior and know I’ll need to be able to reach out and touch someone a little further out. Even then, the vast majority of what we do on patrol is with our handguns.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-21-2020, 9:18 PM
esy esy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,214
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68WhiskeyNCoke View Post
Sounds like it would be a legal nightmare and not worth the effort.

I wonder if it would change anything if said SBR was already owned (Form 1'd in another state). You would still have to bring the thing legally into CA, though.
Not much to do. Agency issues the paperwork and it’s a department owned SBR/SBS. That’s how it is with my agency.

My rifle is mine. When I retire, I’m supposed to give the firearm back. Just the firearm.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-22-2020, 3:33 PM
klikoman klikoman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 169
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Just built a ar pistol
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-23-2020, 9:48 AM
68WhiskeyNCoke 68WhiskeyNCoke is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Arent AR pistols a thing of the past, even for LEO's?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-23-2020, 9:52 AM
Master_Prestige's Avatar
Master_Prestige Master_Prestige is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,020
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68WhiskeyNCoke View Post
Arent AR pistols a thing of the past, even for LEO's?
There’s about 50+ threads and hundreds of pages to read on this very topic. Do some research. Short answer is no.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-23-2020, 11:02 AM
Endless Endless is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: United States Of America
Posts: 1,884
iTrader: 73 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68WhiskeyNCoke View Post
Sounds like it would be a legal nightmare and not worth the effort.

I wonder if it would change anything if said SBR was already owned (Form 1'd in another state). You would still have to bring the thing legally into CA, though.
You cannot bring into California even if you currently own one in another state. When I contacted the BATF years back about bringing into the state of California they said absolutely not. So I sold them while living in Oregon. This is for federal LEOs as well. So for city and state LEOs it's 110% no.

For official duties it's a whole other ballgame. For recreational or personal use outside of duty it's a no go.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-23-2020, 3:38 PM
Ubermcoupe's Avatar
Ubermcoupe Ubermcoupe is offline
✰ Sometimes I Fly Armed
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: This information has been redacted in accordance with Title 18 U.S. Code § 798
Posts: 15,135
iTrader: 66 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icypu View Post
You can own a SBR and or an SBS as a peace officer, however the difficulties of possessing one require overlapping exemptions and special FFLs or grandfathering. The exception is 30630 CA PC.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk
I think the important thing to note in your statement is "AS" (potentially - C&R is the only mechanism I am familiar with) and not "because."

Quote:
Originally Posted by esy View Post
I’m not motors so I can’t speak on that personally. A lot of the motors guys I know run or have run 16” barrels, and that’s the extent of my knowledge.

I can see the benefits for someone on SWAT, but in a patrol setting, I just don’t see it. My rifle comes out on surround and call outs and on very limited building/house clearings where I have a decent idea of the interior and know I’ll need to be able to reach out and touch someone a little further out. Even then, the vast majority of what we do on patrol is with our handguns.
Motor guys, specialty guys, and feds are the ones that come to mind. Buddy of mine in local agency was motors and he was rocking a dept issued 11.5 colt in a vertical mount. I always tried to go shooting with him during quals or just about anytime he was hitting the range so I could get some time on it, but it never worked out.

A couple years back we had the thread on the Sunnyvale DPS motors officer who got her pic in the paper. Again, a dept issued (owned) SBR.


When I worked the superbowl a couple years back all the uniformed feds I was near were rocking issued SBRs. Their kit was quite impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless View Post
You cannot bring into California even if you currently own one in another state. When I contacted the BATF years back about bringing into the state of California they said absolutely not. So I sold them while living in Oregon. This is for federal LEOs as well. So for city and state LEOs it's 110% no.

For official duties it's a whole other ballgame. For recreational or personal use outside of duty it's a no go.
About a decade ago (i'm getting old ) there was an active CGN LEO from AZ who posted in the LEO section about bringing his SBR(s) into state. Sniperman or Hitman or something? Not sure how the times have changed that process.
__________________
Hauoli Makahiki Hou


-------
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-23-2020, 4:22 PM
Icypu's Avatar
Icypu Icypu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: S Pasadena / Havana
Posts: 1,035
iTrader: 66 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubermcoupe View Post
I think the important thing to note in your statement is "AS" (potentially - C&R is the only mechanism I am familiar with) and not "because."




X


Motor guys, specialty guys, and feds are the ones that come to mind.
A consideration is "what is not forbidden is permitted." There will always be one guy who messes it up for others causing laws/policy changes. Posts previously mentioned C&R, Dangerous weapons permitee, and there are other ways of having an SBR or SBS. Frankly if you're trained per PC and possess one through one of the means, there is no crime.

If you give your armory keys to cadets in exchange for favors, you'll get your house raided under warrant and assault weapon charges filed. Moral is not to be "that" guy.

Can you have an SBR / SBS legally yes... but like anything else in LEO just because you can do something doesnt mean you're the guy who should be doing it.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk
__________________
Quote:
“Every time we don’t spend money, more carbon is emitted into the atmosphere,” State -Sen. Kevin de León

Last edited by Icypu; 03-23-2020 at 4:36 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-23-2020, 4:32 PM
BajaJames83's Avatar
BajaJames83 BajaJames83 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: North West SD county
Posts: 5,967
iTrader: 463 / 100%
Default

There should only be one class of gun owners in all 50 states.
Any state law infringing on one should be equally applied to all.
__________________
NRA Endowment Life Member
USMC 2001-2012

Never make yourself too available or useful...... Semper Fidelis

John Dickerson: What keeps you awake at night?
James Mattis: Nothing, I keep other people awake at night.

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-23-2020, 6:49 PM
esy esy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,214
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaJames83 View Post
There should only be one class of gun owners in all 50 states.
Any state law infringing on one should be equally applied to all.
Many of us believe the same. Not the forum for you to air your passive-aggressive frustration though.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-24-2020, 2:27 PM
68WhiskeyNCoke 68WhiskeyNCoke is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

While I agree, I can't do anything about the laws here. I am not asking about bending the laws for my personal gain so I can have my cool stuff here in CA with me. I'm specifically asking about a duty rifle that would (be personally owned) in a patrol car or locked up at the station for official duty use only.

Though it sounds like the only way is to have the department buy the lower for me, or use a pistol. My currently owned SBR/Can (at my other home in a free state) will be a no go as a duty rifle.

Thanks to all those that answered
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:07 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy