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  #1  
Old 03-10-2020, 1:04 PM
jaysen jaysen is offline
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Default Any small to mid-size agencies working 12.5hr shifts? Looking at switching

Due to staffing, we're looking at alternative schedules. Our patrol staff is currently working a 3/12 (4 on 3 off, 3 on 4 off) with a day/night shift. I know 12.5hr requires 'less manpower' to provide coverage, but wanted to see similarly sized agencies schedules...

My peanut brain cannot wrap my head around how it would work without about 5 officers + 1 Sergeant to a shift, 7/day 24/hr coverage.

I can provide staffing levels and exact numbers via PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2020, 1:42 PM
esy esy is offline
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I work 4/10, but I recently talked to someone from Modesto PD who told me they’re on 12.5 hr shifts. I didn’t get a ton of details from him, but he loved it.
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  #3  
Old 03-11-2020, 7:23 PM
SB1942 SB1942 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysen View Post
Due to staffing, we're looking at alternative schedules. Our patrol staff is currently working a 3/12 (4 on 3 off, 3 on 4 off) with a day/night shift. I know 12.5hr requires 'less manpower' to provide coverage, but wanted to see similarly sized agencies schedules...

My peanut brain cannot wrap my head around how it would work without about 5 officers + 1 Sergeant to a shift, 7/day 24/hr coverage.

I can provide staffing levels and exact numbers via PM.
Saw this story about the "Pitman" schedule today:

https://www.officer.com/command-hq/n...d-power-shifts

2-3-2 seems a little better then the 'ol Panama type of 12 hour scheduling (short/long work weeks.)

If you're not familiar with the Panama, here's the breakdown:

Team 1/Team 3 (Days-0700 to 1900):

Week 1: Mon-Tues (Off) Wed-Thurs (On) Fri-Sat-Sun (Off)
Week 2: Mon-Tues (On) Wed-Thurs (Off) Fri-Sat-Sun (On)

Team 2/Team 4 (Nights-1900 to 0700):

Same as above

If you had enough bodies you could maybe throw in a late day or swing shift crew(s), with the same rotating days off.

Last edited by SB1942; 03-11-2020 at 7:31 PM..
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  #4  
Old 03-12-2020, 2:33 PM
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Luis650ar15 Luis650ar15 is offline
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^ this is what I work and I love it. Gives me every other weekend off.
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  #5  
Old 03-12-2020, 7:50 PM
jaysen jaysen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SB1942 View Post
Saw this story about the "Pitman" schedule today:

https://www.officer.com/command-hq/n...d-power-shifts

2-3-2 seems a little better then the 'ol Panama type of 12 hour scheduling (short/long work weeks.)

If you're not familiar with the Panama, here's the breakdown:

Team 1/Team 3 (Days-0700 to 1900):

Week 1: Mon-Tues (Off) Wed-Thurs (On) Fri-Sat-Sun (Off)
Week 2: Mon-Tues (On) Wed-Thurs (Off) Fri-Sat-Sun (On)

Team 2/Team 4 (Nights-1900 to 0700):

Same as above

If you had enough bodies you could maybe throw in a late day or swing shift crew(s), with the same rotating days off.
Thanks for this! Although it does not address specifically 12.5 hrs shifts, I might propose this...
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  #6  
Old 03-13-2020, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysen View Post
Due to staffing, we're looking at alternative schedules. Our patrol staff is currently working a 3/12 (4 on 3 off, 3 on 4 off) with a day/night shift. I know 12.5hr requires 'less manpower' to provide coverage, but wanted to see similarly sized agencies schedules...

My peanut brain cannot wrap my head around how it would work without about 5 officers + 1 Sergeant to a shift, 7/day 24/hr coverage.

I can provide staffing levels and exact numbers via PM.
My old dept. ran 3-12's We worked 12 hr 20 minute shifts three days a week with fixed days off. I worked Mon, Tue, Wed. off the rest.

We did one "payback day" of 12 hours every month to make up the time lost working only 12 hours and 20 minutes three days a week.

we had some working Mon, Tue Wed, both days and nights with shifts starting at 0540 and 1740 and ending at 1800 and 0600.

Same for Thur, Fri, Sat.

The "payback" days covered Sunday shifts.

We changed shifts every 4 months. You could work the same shift only three times in a row.

It worked really well.
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  #7  
Old 03-13-2020, 5:24 PM
SB1942 SB1942 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysen View Post
Thanks for this! Although it does not address specifically 12.5 hrs shifts, I might propose this...
Great! I hope it works out.

SVT-40's old 12 hr/20 min shift (with payback day) schedule is good, too.

Anything to take that fourth, 12 hour day off the table is good. It seems to be a pain for most. Especially for those who commute.

Last edited by SB1942; 03-13-2020 at 5:26 PM..
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  #8  
Old 03-13-2020, 5:37 PM
jaysen jaysen is offline
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I was really hoping someone here could show me a sample schedule with, lets say 20 officers and 4 Sergeant
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Old 03-13-2020, 6:46 PM
CBR_rider CBR_rider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysen View Post
I was really hoping someone here could show me a sample schedule with, lets say 20 officers and 4 Sergeant
Have you/your association reached out to other nearby associations or even through PORAC to see exactly what other agencies are doing (I know that’s what you are doing here but not sure what success you have had elsewhere)
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  #10  
Old 03-13-2020, 6:59 PM
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My agency did experiment with 12 hour shifts at one of our stations. It worked quite well with one exception. The field deputies liked it. There was less "change of shift" disruption (twice a day instead of three times per day). But the real challenge was making court appearances. L.A. County is really horrible at managing court calendars and it's not unusual for a deputy to spend all day in court, and sometimes for days in a row. When you work from 1900-0700, spend all day in court, it's really hard to come back for another 1900-0700 shift. It's even more difficult to do that two days in a row.
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  #11  
Old 03-14-2020, 6:52 PM
jaysen jaysen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR_rider View Post
Have you/your association reached out to other nearby associations or even through PORAC to see exactly what other agencies are doing (I know that’s what you are doing here but not sure what success you have had elsewhere)
I have, thanks! The only issue is the agencies that DO, are of the larger variety

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
My agency did experiment with 12 hour shifts at one of our stations. It worked quite well with one exception. The field deputies liked it. There was less "change of shift" disruption (twice a day instead of three times per day). But the real challenge was making court appearances. L.A. County is really horrible at managing court calendars and it's not unusual for a deputy to spend all day in court, and sometimes for days in a row. When you work from 1900-0700, spend all day in court, it's really hard to come back for another 1900-0700 shift. It's even more difficult to do that two days in a row.
Rick, it seems RivCo modeled their court management after LA, it is the same here...
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2020, 7:51 AM
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We run 12.5 hour shifts Fri-Sun and 10 hour shifts Mon-Thurs. PM me with any Qs you have.
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2020, 2:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysen View Post
I was really hoping someone here could show me a sample schedule with, lets say 20 officers and 4 Sergeant
What are your shift minimums in your MOU?

The shift schedule I explained above could be split with five Officers on each shift, along with one Sgt.

So you have five and a Sgt on every shift and the payback days cover Sundays.

Pretty simple.

The only issue would be if your MOU calls for a higher shift minimum than four Officers per shift...

Having five on each shift would allow one officer to be off each day, and still have a four shift minimum.
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What you believe and what is true in real life in the real world aren't necessarily the same thing. And what you believe doesn't change what is true in real life in the real world.
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2020, 3:29 PM
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My agency works 3 12:20 min shifts, four off, one we hour “Payback” per month.
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