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  #41  
Old 05-09-2016, 7:56 AM
tnlrat37 tnlrat37 is offline
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Another question, My mom in Az wants to gift me a new off roster handgun, however she hasn't bought it yet. Does she have to take possession of it first in Az from FFL there then send it to FFL here or can she buy it from online dealer and have it shipped straight to FFL here in Ca. Just trying to skip one of the shipping and transactions if it's not necessary due to shipping costs and make it easier on her.
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  #42  
Old 05-09-2016, 8:06 AM
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General consensus is that she has to take possession of it first in order to gift it to you.
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  #43  
Old 05-09-2016, 9:17 AM
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If the firearm is not transferred to her, then it would likely not be considered to be an intrafamilial transfer as it is NOT a transfer between a parent/child/grandparent/grandchild, but instead from the FFL. If it worked to just have a family member pay for the item, then a family member could call your local FFL and just pay for the firearm, which obviously does not work.

It also has to be a gift. If it is not really a gift, then the family member filling out the 4473 is making a false statement as they are not the actual buyer/transferee (the gift exemption does not apply when it is not a gift).
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  #44  
Old 05-09-2016, 12:41 PM
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UGI, thank you!
Is the Intrafamilial transfer necessary for CA resident father/mother to CA resident Son/Daughter then? What needs to be done then a regular PPT or can it just be given as it is intended to be, a gift. Sorry I find it irritating that a love one has to pay to basically notify a transfer that isn't done in another state at all.
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  #45  
Old 05-09-2016, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatetheGr8 View Post
UGI, thank you!
Is the Intrafamilial transfer necessary for CA resident father/mother to CA resident Son/Daughter then? What needs to be done then a regular PPT or can it just be given as it is intended to be, a gift. Sorry I find it irritating that a love one has to pay to basically notify a transfer that isn't done in another state at all.
An intrafamilial transfer where both mom/dad and son/daughter are both CA residents does not need an FFL. Instead since both party members are CA residents the OPLAW form is the one you want to fill out.
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  #46  
Old 05-09-2016, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NatetheGr8 View Post
Is the Intrafamilial transfer necessary for CA resident father/mother to CA resident Son/Daughter then? What needs to be done then a regular PPT or can it just be given as it is intended to be, a gift. Sorry I find it irritating that a love one has to pay to basically notify a transfer that isn't done in another state at all.

For a CA intrafamilial transfer, you just need to fill out the CA DOJ form and send in the money. No FFL is required.

In other states you can sell a firearm FTF with no payment to the government at all. That is part of the problem with living in CA.
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  #47  
Old 05-09-2016, 1:00 PM
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With respect to the gift, as far as I am aware, the limitation is in regards to a family member buying a firearm from a dealer. If they have already had the firearm, I don't know of any restrictions in regards to selling it and doing it as an intrafamilial transfer. They could also buy the firearm from a private party in a free state, as long as they don't have to fill out a 4473. They can not legally fill out a 4473 saying that they are the actual buyer/transferee if it not a gift because they would not be considered to be the actual buyer/transferee.

If the firearm is sold, then there is the sales tax requirement.
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  #48  
Old 05-09-2016, 1:52 PM
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Gentlemembers,

Please recall that this is the FFL forum, and this thread is on the specifics an FFL must know to legally accomplish an interstate intrafamilial transfer - just as it is titled.

Other kinds of questions should be directed to the 'How California Law Affects Me' forum, where there are already many posts on intrafamilial transfer.

Please also note there is a sticky in this forum - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1058641 - that points to more information useful to givers and receivers.
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Last edited by Librarian; 05-09-2016 at 1:54 PM..
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  #49  
Old 05-10-2016, 2:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
I know of MANY - Aces in West Covina just received one for me $25 receiving fee & $25 DROS.
Yupe, ACES takes the intrafamilial transfer. They charge the lowest transfer fee in town and provide great customer services.

Last edited by e0eli; 05-10-2016 at 2:31 PM..
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  #50  
Old 05-10-2016, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by e0eli View Post
Yupe, ACES takes the intrafamilial transfer. They also charge the lowest transfer fee and provide great customer services.
Awesome, and thank you for the suggestion.

Last edited by huktunfonikz; 05-10-2016 at 2:31 PM..
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  #51  
Old 06-01-2016, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
the FFL is incorrect.

federal law prohibits your father from transfering a firearm to a resident of a different state than your father lives in without using an FFL. your FFL is suggesting your father commit a federal FELONY and then have you document his felony by sending in proof to CADOJ.
My son is in military, stationed in New Mexico, where he can buy guns. He has CA drivers license. Oplaw or FFL to gift me handgun?
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  #52  
Old 06-01-2016, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ewcmr2 View Post
My son is in military, stationed in New Mexico, where he can buy guns. He has CA drivers license. Oplaw or FFL to gift me handgun?
If he is buying guns in New Mexico that is his current state of residence (regardless of keeping his CA DL).

FFL to gift it to you unless he moves back into California and establishes residency at which point Oplaw would work.
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  #53  
Old 06-01-2016, 11:19 PM
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Out the ffl in Burbank that does not know law so all can avoid him or her. Stupidity creates problems.
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  #54  
Old 06-01-2016, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
Out the ffl in Burbank that does not know law so all can avoid him or her. Stupidity creates problems.
I had spoken with a fellow at Guns Direct in Burbank. I don't recall his name, but that was the unfortunate response he gave me. I am glad I did some further research on Calguns to double-check.

I want to mention that I also spoke with someone at Riflegear down in Fountain Valley, and they seem to know what to do - they also accept firearm shipments from non-FFLs as well. I plan to use them on the upcoming gift transfer from my father (it is for my birthday).
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  #55  
Old 06-02-2016, 6:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
If he is buying guns in New Mexico that is his current state of residence (regardless of keeping his CA DL).

FFL to gift it to you unless he moves back into California and establishes residency at which point Oplaw would work.
Thanks, that's what I thought.
How does FFL reconcile an interstate transfer of off roster gun when both parties have CA ID's? Kids NM auto registration, residential lease, military papers?

Can I hand deliver gun to FFL or does kid have to carry it in/ship it? (I'll see kid on our annual northwest vacation this summer and get it then, or wait until he comes to CA for Christmas/ship it)
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  #56  
Old 06-02-2016, 8:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Ewcmr2 View Post
Thanks, that's what I thought.
How does FFL reconcile an interstate transfer of off roster gun when both parties have CA ID's? Kids NM auto registration, residential lease, military papers?
An explanation. The FFL needs to know where the firearm is coming from to log it. Clearly the CA ID does not have the correct residence address when he is living in NM. There is nothing official required though, so anything works.

Quote:
Can I hand deliver gun to FFL or does kid have to carry it in/ship it? (I'll see kid on our annual northwest vacation this summer and get it then, or wait until he comes to CA for Christmas/ship it)
How can you hand deliver the firearm if it can not legally be transferred to you due to being residents of different states? Handing over a firearm and taking it is a transfer, especially when it is intended to be transferred.

Your son in NM can ship it or carry it in.
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  #57  
Old 06-02-2016, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
How can you hand deliver the firearm if it can not legally be transferred to you due to being residents of different states? Handing over a firearm and taking it is a transfer, especially when it is intended to be transferred.
I was thinking he could loan it to me after our summer vacation, then I'd go to ffl for ownership transfer.
When kid moved off campus while in college (UCSD) I loaned him my M9. Since loan to 19yr old was only good for 10 days I ended up giving it to him.

CA laws on loaning handguns have change since then or interstate loans are a no-no?
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  #58  
Old 06-02-2016, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ewcmr2 View Post
I was thinking he could loan it to me after our summer vacation, then I'd go to ffl for ownership transfer.
When kid moved off campus while in college (UCSD) I loaned him my M9. Since loan to 19yr old was only good for 10 days I ended up giving it to him.

CA laws on loaning handguns have change since then or interstate loans are a no-no?
There are laws regarding loaning, but more importantly the "loan" you speak of is really to do the transfer, which makes it not a loan at all. It would be a transfer between residents of different states.
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  #59  
Old 06-02-2016, 2:46 PM
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Could grandfather in another state ships via himself or FFL, to granddaughter's LGS FFL in CA?
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  #60  
Old 06-02-2016, 3:51 PM
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Could grandfather in another state ships via himself or FFL, to granddaughter's LGS FFL in CA?
Yes, assuming that it is acceptable to the FFL.
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  #61  
Old 06-02-2016, 9:41 PM
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Yes, assuming that it is acceptable to the FFL.
Great thanks! Always thought that it need to go from grandfather in this case who is out of state, to father in CA and then Daughter who also is in CA.
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  #62  
Old 06-03-2016, 7:13 AM
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It is parent/child/grandparent/grandchild.
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  #63  
Old 06-17-2016, 9:48 AM
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Does intrafamilial include spouse-spouse transfer?
Can a husband in state A 'gift' his firearm to his wife who is currently California resident using intrafamilial transfer?
*My new brother-in-law is from AZ and is still considered AZ resident. I plan to ask him to get me some off-rosters (through his wife - my sister - then PPT to me), that is if it's legal.

Last edited by Achye; 06-17-2016 at 11:05 AM.. Reason: additional info
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  #64  
Old 06-17-2016, 10:56 AM
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That is an interesting question.

It would not be an intrafamilial transfer since that is between parent/child/grandparent/grandchild, but it should be exempt by other means.
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  #65  
Old 06-17-2016, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achye View Post
Does intrafamilial include spouse-spouse transfer?
Can a husband in state A 'gift' his firearm to his wife who is currently California resident using intrafamilial transfer?
*My new brother-in-law is from AZ and is still considered AZ resident. I plan to ask him to get me some off-rosters (through his wife - my sister - then PPT to me), that is if it's legal.
Not for interstate, I think, maybe.

It's legal for a spouse to give property to another spouse, via a process called 'transmutation', and the OPLAW form is the right documentation for that when done by 2 CA residents.

And since such an in-state transmutation need not go through an FFL, it's Roster-exempt.

But as Kemasa points out, spouse-spouse is not inside the CA definition of 'immediate family'.

(Families where spouses are residents of different states create quite a muddle, and the real way to find out is to consult a lawyer.)
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Last edited by Librarian; 06-17-2016 at 11:21 AM..
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  #66  
Old 06-17-2016, 1:34 PM
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My mom wants to gift me a handgun. Can she purchase it and have it shipped to my FFL without taking possesion of it first? She would send all the info required by the Feds, CA and the FFL. This is a gift so no exchange of money is occuring.
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  #67  
Old 06-17-2016, 2:09 PM
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My mom wants to gift me a handgun. Can she purchase it and have it shipped to my FFL without taking possesion of it first? She would send all the info required by the Feds, CA and the FFL. This is a gift so no exchange of money is occuring.
Yes she can gift you an on roster handgun that way.

She can't do an intra familial transfer on a firearm she does not own. So can't do off roster.
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  #68  
Old 06-18-2016, 12:56 PM
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What he said. If she does not own it, meaning transferred to her since paying does not make her own it, it does not mean the requirements for an intrafamilial transfer. If it did, then a parent could just pay a CA FFL for the firearm.
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  #69  
Old 06-18-2016, 4:17 PM
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Yes she can gift you an on roster handgun that way.

She can't do an intra familial transfer on a firearm she does not own. So can't do off roster.
What if parent purchases an off roster, takes possession or ownership, then gives it to their child? Does that require an FFL?

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Old 06-18-2016, 4:26 PM
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What if parent purchases an off roster, takes possession or ownership, then gives it to their child? Does that require an FFL?
If both are residents of CA no, if not yes, a FFL is required.

Federal laws requires residents of different states to go through a FFL in the buyer/transferee state of residence.
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Old 06-18-2016, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
If both are residents of CA no, if not yes, a FFL is required.

Federal laws requires residents of different states to go through a FFL in the buyer/transferee state of residence.
Well, my father lives in AZ and I want to use him to get some off rosters but obviously it needs to remain legal. Thanks for the answer.

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  #72  
Old 06-18-2016, 6:34 PM
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Well, my father lives in AZ and I want to use him to get some off rosters but obviously it needs to remain legal. Thanks for the answer.
He can not buy them for you from a dealer since he would be making a false statement on a Federal form, the 4473, as he is not the actual buyer/transferee. An exemption to that is a gift, but it has to be a real gift. If the money is tracked, you could have a serious problem. Yes, you might get away with it, but that is a big risk to take.
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  #73  
Old 06-18-2016, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
He can not buy them for you from a dealer since he would be making a false statement on a Federal form, the 4473, as he is not the actual buyer/transferee. An exemption to that is a gift, but it has to be a real gift. If the money is tracked, you could have a serious problem. Yes, you might get away with it, but that is a big risk to take.
Is a bona-fide gift the only way to remain legal?

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  #74  
Old 06-18-2016, 7:38 PM
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Is a bona-fide gift the only way to remain legal?

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No, if it is bought from a private party, then no 4473 is filled out, assuming it is legal in that state. It would not work in CA due to state laws.
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Old 06-18-2016, 7:39 PM
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No, if it is bought from a private party, then no 4473 is filled out, assuming it is legal in that state. It would not work in CA due to state laws.
Well time to start suckin' up Hahaha.

Thank you for the info!

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Old 06-19-2016, 8:24 AM
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If they have a firearm and bought it for themselves, they can sell it to you and as an intrafamilial transfer it would be exempt. This does not mean that you can convince them to buy something and then wait a bit. If they bought it and the intent was to sell it to you before they bought it, then it would not be legal as they would not be the actual buyer/transferee even if you wait to transfer it.
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Old 06-19-2016, 10:39 AM
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If they have a firearm and bought it for themselves, they can sell it to you and as an intrafamilial transfer it would be exempt. This does not mean that you can convince them to buy something and then wait a bit. If they bought it and the intent was to sell it to you before they bought it, then it would not be legal as they would not be the actual buyer/transferee even if you wait to transfer it.
Got it. So basically, leave it alone unless it's a bona-fide gift.

What about the other way around? Say I have an AR lower that I've had for years, and I want to give it to him because I'm not going to do anything with it...how would CA law work transferring it out of state to his possession in Arizona?
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Old 06-19-2016, 11:38 AM
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What about the other way around? Say I have an AR lower that I've had for years, and I want to give it to him because I'm not going to do anything with it...how would CA law work transferring it out of state to his possession in Arizona?
It would just have to be shipped to an AZ FFL. You can ship it directly, if the AZ FFL allows for that, it is not illegal, but some FFLs refuse to accept firearms from private parties. This means that you might want to check with AZ FFLs until you find one which will accept it directly from you. It is also possible, with the same issues, for you to bring it to the AZ FFL.

There is nothing in the CA law which deals with that. Federal law requires that residents of two different states use a FFL in the state of residence of the buyer/transferee to do the transfer.
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Old 06-19-2016, 1:34 PM
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It would just have to be shipped to an AZ FFL. You can ship it directly, if the AZ FFL allows for that, it is not illegal, but some FFLs refuse to accept firearms from private parties. This means that you might want to check with AZ FFLs until you find one which will accept it directly from you. It is also possible, with the same issues, for you to bring it to the AZ FFL.

There is nothing in the CA law which deals with that. Federal law requires that residents of two different states use a FFL in the state of residence of the buyer/transferee to do the transfer.
Awesome. There is no form I need to file with the DOJ declaring non-ownership or anything like that?
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Old 06-19-2016, 3:00 PM
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Awesome. There is no form I need to file with the DOJ declaring non-ownership or anything like that?
There is a form you can fill out, but as far as I know it is really meaningless as I don't think that they delete the records, they just (at most) make a note of it. It is optional, but you need to give them the information as to what happened to the firearm.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...46NLIP0209.pdf
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