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  #1  
Old 08-23-2019, 12:17 PM
DORINS9956 DORINS9956 is offline
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Default 2 Background Checks Needed?

I ordered on on-roster handgun from a popular out-of-state online retailer and my local retail gun store told me they would accept the shipment, but that they needed to perform a $60 background check and a $36 DROS.
It is my understanding that the DROS submission to the State of California is for two reasons: CA DOJ takes the responsibility to perform both a state and federal background check and CA law requires a 10-day waiting period before a gun is released to a registrant.
A state can act as the "point of contact" to perform background "NICS" and that means that they perform both state and federal database background checks. This is accomplished with the DROS submission, no?
Where, then, is there a CA firearms statute that mandates two background checks on guns from out-of-state. This sounds a bit like someone is pissing in the soup to make an extra buck because they lost a sale.
I ordered the gun because it's almost impossible to find and I got lucky with an out-of-state retailer.
Can anyone point me to a statute that mandates two background checks?
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:23 PM
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DROS is the combination of 3 fees, and totals $25. The background check is included, and the required 10-day wait is supposed to allow for that check.
Quote:
How much is the state fee when purchasing a firearm?

The total state fee is $25. The DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a $1.00 Firearms Safety Act Fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement Fee. In the event of a private party transfer (PPT), the firearms dealer may charge an additional fee of up to $10 per firearm.

If the transaction is not a PPT the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is not misrepresented as a state fee. When settling on the purchase price of a firearm, you should ask the dealer to disclose all applicable fees.
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#13

Your interstate transfer is not a PPT.

You ought to get the CA FFL to itemize those charges. Whomever you spoke to seems to have been a bit confused.
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  #3  
Old 08-23-2019, 12:37 PM
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It sounds to me that they were trying to say or you misunderstood that their fee is $60. As stated the DROS fees total up to $25.00. Possibly there was $11 in tax on your firearm and that's what they are collecting on top of your DROS and interstate transfer fee?
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:46 PM
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It is illegal to misrepresent the CA DROS fee, but as said, I suspect there is some confusion as to what the fees are.

There is a FFL and also sales tax, in addition to the DROS fee.
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Old 08-23-2019, 1:21 PM
DORINS9956 DORINS9956 is offline
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Let me clear up the state of actual communication between me and the FFL (retail gun store). I quote:
1. "The sales tax is for the BOE and it is not part of the charges for background checks. It's separate."
2. "The $36 DROS fee is for the required registration of the firearm to me and the required CA background check so that the gun can be released to me after 10 days if the DOJ does not advise the FFL that I am not eligible to possess a gun. Absent any notice from the DOJ after 10 days of submission of the DROS, the gun is released to me. No further fees are due for the DROS."
3. "Because the gun was shipped from out of state into California, there is an additional background check necessary. This is true on every interstate gun transfer. It is not necessary if the transfer is within California, FFL to FFL."

These were the representations made to me by the FFL dealer.

My point is that, since the DOJ can act as the "Point of Contact" for the required federal background check, the DOJ performs that check in lieu of the FFL dealer. That is done with the DROS submission. That would mean that an additional background check is completely unnecessary and there should not be an additional fee of $60 for a check that is already paid for.

I don't see any statute in California firearms law that mandates the FFL dealer should perform a federal background check in addition to the DOJ DROS submission. If anyone can point me to such a statute, I would be grateful.

I have been told that other FFL retailers also do this second background check, regardless of where the gun originates--in or out of California. I suspect that they should just call the fee for what it is, namely a boondoggle to get money for nothing. And I thought this business was above all that!
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Old 08-23-2019, 1:31 PM
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Well, as stated the DROS fee's are $19, $5 and $1- total of $25.00

Sales tax statement is true.

What additional background check are they referencing? Maybe they mean the CFLC but that is NOT a background check, but a state mandated check on the receiving FFL that verifies their CFD is valid. This is free and there is no cost associated with it.

At this point I would recommend either seeking clarification of the fees broken down, as suggested earlier, or find a different dealer.
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Old 08-23-2019, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DORINS9956 View Post
Let me clear up the state of actual communication between me and the FFL (retail gun store). I quote:
1. "The sales tax is for the BOE and it is not part of the charges for background checks. It's separate."
2. "The $36 DROS fee is for the required registration of the firearm to me and the required CA background check so that the gun can be released to me after 10 days if the DOJ does not advise the FFL that I am not eligible to possess a gun. Absent any notice from the DOJ after 10 days of submission of the DROS, the gun is released to me. No further fees are due for the DROS."
3. "Because the gun was shipped from out of state into California, there is an additional background check necessary. This is true on every interstate gun transfer. It is not necessary if the transfer is within California, FFL to FFL."

These were the representations made to me by the FFL dealer.

My point is that, since the DOJ can act as the "Point of Contact" for the required federal background check, the DOJ performs that check in lieu of the FFL dealer. That is done with the DROS submission. That would mean that an additional background check is completely unnecessary and there should not be an additional fee of $60 for a check that is already paid for.

I don't see any statute in California firearms law that mandates the FFL dealer should perform a federal background check in addition to the DOJ DROS submission. If anyone can point me to such a statute, I would be grateful.

I have been told that other FFL retailers also do this second background check, regardless of where the gun originates--in or out of California. I suspect that they should just call the fee for what it is, namely a boondoggle to get money for nothing. And I thought this business was above all that!
Bolded: the dealer can't do that. It's technically not possible.

Also, are they trying to charge you #2 twice? or just once. If just once I don't see in your list of fees where the 2nd background check fee comes into play.

#3 also makes no sense. I have to run a DROS on everyone regardless if the gun comes from CA or out of state. Even if it was hand delivered by another FFL.
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Last edited by ugimports; 08-23-2019 at 1:34 PM..
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  #8  
Old 08-23-2019, 1:45 PM
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Sounds like it's a misinterpretation of the fees. It's quite common in the FFL business. FFLs get grumpy customers all the time that blame us for things out of our control or their own lack of understanding of laws vs policies.

As for the statute you're looking for, there isn't one. $25 to DOJ, Tax to CA, and whatever the FFL charges you for handling the transfer. There isn't a separate federal background as the DOJ check included in the $25 will also search through the NICS.
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Old 08-23-2019, 1:46 PM
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Well, this thread will certainly deliver
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Old 08-23-2019, 1:51 PM
DORINS9956 DORINS9956 is offline
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I think we are all coming to the same conclusion: There is no second background check other than the DROS submission to the DOJ and therefore there should not be an additional fee above the DROS fee.
I like the advice about finding another dealer. Unfortunately, this is more difficult than it seems in my county, so I just cancelled the order. Sad to have to do that, but I'm not going to participate in a scam. I'll work around the problem in a more honest way. Maybe as customers, as a group we should hold dealers to task when they do this sort of thing. I expect it from car dealers, but not firearms dealers. Shame!
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Old 08-23-2019, 1:56 PM
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I kinda ran into something like this. I called one Local gun store and they said they would accept the rifle from out of state. But the fee was $100. I called another store and the fee was $40. Basically the FFL can charge a fee for the use of their FFL licenses. And that fee varies greatly. Needless to say I went with the $40. Option also CA taxes are due. So they collect those too along with the DROS.

Last edited by Mr. Helio; 08-23-2019 at 2:25 PM.. Reason: Added words
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Old 08-23-2019, 2:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DORINS9956 View Post
I think we are all coming to the same conclusion: There is no second background check other than the DROS submission to the DOJ and therefore there should not be an additional fee above the DROS fee.
I like the advice about finding another dealer. Unfortunately, this is more difficult than it seems in my county, so I just cancelled the order. Sad to have to do that, but I'm not going to participate in a scam. I'll work around the problem in a more honest way. Maybe as customers, as a group we should hold dealers to task when they do this sort of thing. I expect it from car dealers, but not firearms dealers. Shame!
Sorry, but unless you can actually show us their policy i think you are greatly mistaken. There is no basis for anything you claimed to have said and i doubt an FFL would be so far off with the numbers you present here.

Your story doesn't even add up to reality.
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Old 08-23-2019, 2:47 PM
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So op should understand Transfer fee any amount they choose, sales tax, 10% of firearm invoice, dros 35 bucks total. Any thing plus those?
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Old 08-23-2019, 2:49 PM
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Understanding that you are now looking for a new dealer, the below isn't quite correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DORINS9956 View Post
I think we are all coming to the same conclusion: There is no second background check other than the DROS submission to the DOJ and therefore there should not be an additional fee above the DROS fee.
If you meant "$10 above the statutory DROS", that's correct.

But a dealer is free to charge a fee for his transfer service, and there is no cap on those.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


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Old 08-23-2019, 3:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DORINS9956 View Post
Maybe as customers, as a group we should hold dealers to task when they do this sort of thing.
You can always pony up the bucks and get your own FFL and start selling firearms too.
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Old 08-23-2019, 3:52 PM
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I thought about doing that. I was an FFL dealer about thirty years ago. I can get the license, but I don't have the time to deal with the ATF. Been there, done that.
I am asking that fees being charged are identified as to what they represent. If the dealer wants to charge fees for services, that's just fine, only don't say it's for a legally mandated background check if it isn't. Simple request.
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Old 08-23-2019, 3:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DORINS9956 View Post
I thought about doing that. I was an FFL dealer about thirty years ago. I can get the license, but I don't have the time to deal with the ATF. Been there, done that.
I am asking that fees being charged are identified as to what they represent. If the dealer wants to charge fees for services, that's just fine, only don't say it's for a legally mandated background check if it isn't. Simple request.
ATF? You mean in this state CA DOJ? ATF is a lot easier to deal with than CA DOJ.
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Old 08-23-2019, 3:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DORINS9956 View Post
....but I don't have the time to deal with the ATF. Been there, done that.
ATF is puppies and kittens compared with the BS that rolls down the pipeline from CA DOJ.
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Old 08-23-2019, 3:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
ATF is puppies and kittens compared with the BS that rolls down the pipeline from CA DOJ.
UH, ya! This guy just PMed me some BS story. I told him to post the facts and not the narrative from his memory.

I find it hard to believe that an FFL in this state with DOJ peeking from every corner would let an FFL in this state get away with what this guy is claiming
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Old 08-23-2019, 8:10 PM
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Bruh. You must have posted almost the same thing as me at the same time. Look at the time stamps. Great minds.
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Old 08-23-2019, 8:25 PM
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The cost of buying guns in California. Deal with it. Sorry to say but, Pay and be happy !
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Old 08-23-2019, 8:57 PM
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So, the OP has apparently moved on from the location of his problem.

Let's do the same, please.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


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