Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > FFL's Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-12-2021, 2:44 PM
ronlglock's Avatar
ronlglock ronlglock is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,863
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default Mary ju wanna question

Asking for a friend and looking for educated opinions.

A buyer who is party to a PPT smells like Mary J so strongly that your eyes are watering above your mask. Obviously buyer cannot answer no to 4473 question 21e. Is the buyer permanently prohibited or can they try again when they don't smell like Mary J?
__________________


NRA/DOJ/ILEETA instructor, NRA RSO, sheriffs volunteer staff
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-12-2021, 2:48 PM
buster1960's Avatar
buster1960 buster1960 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Solano County
Posts: 513
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Use your good judgment and refuse the transaction. Walk away.
__________________
NRA Life Member
US Army 1977-1979 12B Combat Engineer
US Navy 1979-1983 Gunners Mate Guns (GMG)

My guns are like my internal organs, I'd have to be dead to be without them.
I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders....Ted Nugent
There are 2 kinds of people, normal and skinny....my Father in Law

Unrestrained children in back seats cause accidents.
Unrestrained accidents in back seats cause children.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-12-2021, 3:31 PM
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ's Avatar
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 728
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

According to 27 CFR 478.11:
Unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.

A person who uses a controlled substance and has lost the power of self-control with reference to the use of controlled substance; and any person who is a current user of a controlled substance in a manner other than as prescribed by a licensed physician. Such use is not limited to the use of drugs on a particular day, or within a matter of days or weeks before, but rather that the unlawful use has occurred recently enough to indicate that the individual is actively engaged in such conduct. A person may be an unlawful current user of a controlled substance even though the substance is not being used at the precise time the person seeks to acquire a firearm or receives or possesses a firearm. An inference of current use may be drawn from evidence of a recent use or possession of a controlled substance or a pattern of use or possession that reasonably covers the present time, e.g., a conviction for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; multiple arrests for such offenses within the past 5 years if the most recent arrest occurred within the past year; or persons found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided that the test was administered within the past year. For a current or former member of the Armed Forces, an inference of current use may be drawn from recent disciplinary or other administrative action based on confirmed drug use, e.g., court-martial conviction, nonjudicial punishment, or an administrative discharge based on drug use or drug rehabilitation failure.
Notice that for arrest or conviction-based suspicions, there are specific timelines. Its not a permanent ban, because its whether a person is currently an unlawful user or addict.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-12-2021, 3:47 PM
acespawnshop's Avatar
acespawnshop acespawnshop is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: West Covina, CA
Posts: 2,530
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

We've told them no before. If that makes you feel any better. Remember you're signing the 4473 also saying everything is on the up and up. And if you don't believe it is then don't do it.
__________________
Interstate Transfers $100 (DROS included with the price)
Email acesjewelryandloan@hotmail.com if you need us to do a transfer!
Or call 626-968-5900

Follow us on Facebook @acesjewelryandloan Need Cash Fast? Get a loan on your firearms here!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-12-2021, 4:03 PM
Tyke8319's Avatar
Tyke8319 Tyke8319 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: The State of Jefferson
Posts: 1,383
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I wouldn't. Lots of potential down the road liability that could come back on you. I wouldn't want it on my conscience knowing I (in essence) helped arm someone that was stupid enough to come into a gun store reeking of the green.
__________________
American soldier by choice. Made in America by the Grace of God.

So, now it is ironic that the State whittles away at the right of its citizens to defend themselves from the possible oppression of their State.
Judge Roger T. Benitez
LCM's ruled legal 3/29/2019
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-12-2021, 8:58 PM
taperxz taperxz is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,624
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
Asking for a friend and looking for educated opinions.

A buyer who is party to a PPT smells like Mary J so strongly that your eyes are watering above your mask. Obviously buyer cannot answer no to 4473 question 21e. Is the buyer permanently prohibited or can they try again when they don't smell like Mary J?
Treat it as if you suspect the person could be a DOJ or ATF plant for a sting operation and youll be fine.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-13-2021, 12:36 PM
Elite Armory's Avatar
Elite Armory Elite Armory is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Castro Valley, CA
Posts: 410
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Treat it as if you suspect the person could be a DOJ or ATF plant for a sting operation and you’ll be fine.
Agree with the above.

I did however have one customer come in that told me she had a Medical Marijuana card but said she has never used it and didn't even ask for it but her doctor prescribed it and gave it to her. She even said she would give it to me to cut up if I wanted. I called DOJ and asked what to do in this situation and the best answer I could get out of them was it doesn't matter if they give you the card or not because they can just go get another one. What matters is if you believe them or not. Needless to say it wasn't a very definitive answer.
__________________
Elite Armory
3636 Castro Valley Blvd #1
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 538-1686

Hours:
Tues-Sat: 11:00am-6:30pm

Elite Armory Plus
7601 W 11th Street
Tracy, CA 95304
(209) 362-2010

Hours:
Tues-Fri: 11:00am - 7:00pm
Sat-Sun: 10:00am - 8:00pm

*Follow us on Twitter and/or FaceBook for updates on what we have coming into the shop.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-13-2021, 1:37 PM
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ's Avatar
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 728
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Armory View Post
I did however have one customer come in that told me she had a Medical Marijuana card but said she has never used it and didn't even ask for it but her doctor prescribed it and gave it to her.
The 9th Circuit case of Wilson v. Lynch (9th Cir. 2016) 835 F.3d 1083, which is the case that pretty much is the case about firearms and marijuana, addresses this exact situation.

Wilson v. Lynch is about the ATF Open Letter to FFLs about marijuana. That Open Letter specifically instructs, "if you are aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession and use of marijuana under State law, then you have "reasonable cause to believe" that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance. As such, you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to the person, even if that person answered "no" to question 11.e. on ATF Form 4473."

Wilson argued, "she is not actually an unlawful drug user. Instead, she alleges that, although she obtained a registry card, she chose not to use medical marijuana for various reasons, such as the difficulties of acquiring medical marijuana in Nevada, as well as a desire to make a political statement." (Wilson v. Lynch, at p. 1091.)

Nonetheless, the 9th Circuit says:
"With respect to marijuana registry cards, there may be some small population of individuals who-although obtaining a marijuana registry card for medicinal purposes-instead hold marijuana registry cards only for expressive purposes. But it is eminently reasonable for federal regulators to assume that a registry cardholder is much more likely to be a marijuana user than an individual who does not hold a registry card." (Wilson v. Lynch at p. 1094.)

The 9th Circuit does say, "Wilson could acquire firearms and exercise her right to self-defense at any time by surrendering her registry card, thereby demonstrating to a firearms dealer that there is no reasonable cause to believe she is an unlawful drug user." (Wilson v. Lynch, at p. 1093.)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-13-2021, 6:53 PM
taperxz taperxz is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,624
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ View Post
The 9th Circuit case of Wilson v. Lynch (9th Cir. 2016) 835 F.3d 1083, which is the case that pretty much is the case about firearms and marijuana, addresses this exact situation.

Wilson v. Lynch is about the ATF Open Letter to FFLs about marijuana. That Open Letter specifically instructs, "if you are aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession and use of marijuana under State law, then you have "reasonable cause to believe" that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance. As such, you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to the person, even if that person answered "no" to question 11.e. on ATF Form 4473."

Wilson argued, "she is not actually an unlawful drug user. Instead, she alleges that, although she obtained a registry card, she chose not to use medical marijuana for various reasons, such as the difficulties of acquiring medical marijuana in Nevada, as well as a desire to make a political statement." (Wilson v. Lynch, at p. 1091.)

Nonetheless, the 9th Circuit says:
"With respect to marijuana registry cards, there may be some small population of individuals who-although obtaining a marijuana registry card for medicinal purposes-instead hold marijuana registry cards only for expressive purposes. But it is eminently reasonable for federal regulators to assume that a registry cardholder is much more likely to be a marijuana user than an individual who does not hold a registry card." (Wilson v. Lynch at p. 1094.)

The 9th Circuit does say, "Wilson could acquire firearms and exercise her right to self-defense at any time by surrendering her registry card, thereby demonstrating to a firearms dealer that there is no reasonable cause to believe she is an unlawful drug user." (Wilson v. Lynch, at p. 1093.)
Yep. Thanks for posting this. I knew something went through the courts. In a few months Im sure we will be getting new 4473s AGAIN! Since the President elect, House and Senate will be decriminalizing weed shortly.

Then well all be able to hang out at our stores and get stoned and sell guns. Well have the most meticulous looking 4473s that will take an hour to fill in and incredible lunch bills to write off
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-13-2021, 6:57 PM
General's Avatar
General General is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Born on the Sacramento River. Raised by an a Alligator, sired by a Lion. Backbone o' barbed wire!!
Posts: 1,943
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Blog Entries: 2
Default

What if they smell of alcohol?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-14-2021, 9:16 AM
acespawnshop's Avatar
acespawnshop acespawnshop is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: West Covina, CA
Posts: 2,530
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General View Post
What if they smell of alcohol?
Theres nothing in the US code about alcohol though...
__________________
Interstate Transfers $100 (DROS included with the price)
Email acesjewelryandloan@hotmail.com if you need us to do a transfer!
Or call 626-968-5900

Follow us on Facebook @acesjewelryandloan Need Cash Fast? Get a loan on your firearms here!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-14-2021, 9:22 AM
M76's Avatar
M76 M76 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Urbanized Suburbia
Posts: 2,937
iTrader: 86 / 100%
Default

I've been in an LGS and saw dudes reeking of weed gleefully looking at firearms,
and thought to myself "what the hell are these idiots thinking?" - not very bright.
__________________


1A - 2A = -1A

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunndeal View Post
Stop digging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Evil, nasty, vicious!!
I like the way you think!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-14-2021, 10:12 AM
bugsy714's Avatar
bugsy714 bugsy714 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: OC/LA
Posts: 1,128
iTrader: 90 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General View Post
What if they smell of alcohol?

That functional alcoholic is a patriot for not smoking reefer


Dictated but not read, voice typing plus bad eyes equals typos
__________________
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is King
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-14-2021, 10:33 AM
acespawnshop's Avatar
acespawnshop acespawnshop is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: West Covina, CA
Posts: 2,530
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsy714 View Post
That functional alcoholic is a patriot for not smoking reefer


Dictated but not read, voice typing plus bad eyes equals typos
I just don't think its a federal crime to be a drunk. Thats all I was getting at.
__________________
Interstate Transfers $100 (DROS included with the price)
Email acesjewelryandloan@hotmail.com if you need us to do a transfer!
Or call 626-968-5900

Follow us on Facebook @acesjewelryandloan Need Cash Fast? Get a loan on your firearms here!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-14-2021, 11:08 AM
taperxz taperxz is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 17,624
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
Theres nothing in the US code about alcohol though...
True! I might be inclined to sell them all they want when they come in to buy and to start the 10 day wait.

I wouldn't deliver the guns to them drunk though.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-14-2021, 2:04 PM
acespawnshop's Avatar
acespawnshop acespawnshop is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: West Covina, CA
Posts: 2,530
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
I wouldn't deliver the guns to them drunk though.
Yeah, I mean if some dude walks in stumbling, bumbling and is wasted then yeah no way am I gonna release it. But I was more getting at the fact that the 4473 mentions unlawful use of MJ but there's no mention about booze.
__________________
Interstate Transfers $100 (DROS included with the price)
Email acesjewelryandloan@hotmail.com if you need us to do a transfer!
Or call 626-968-5900

Follow us on Facebook @acesjewelryandloan Need Cash Fast? Get a loan on your firearms here!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:53 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2020, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.
Tactical Pants Tactical Boots Tactical Gear Military Boots 5.11 Tactical