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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here. |
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@proglock, the biggest benefit (for me anyway) of the Matchsaver(z) was increasing speed in the Select Slug drill. You don't have to worry about grabbing the slug out of your holder (usually side saddle or belt holder for most people), indexing it, and inserting it. Instead you basically have it staged in in the Matchsaver(z) and just slide it the last inch into the chamber.
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I ran my scopes on 3x when shooting 37.5 and 50 while standing unsupported. On my first time at RM, I forgot to change the magnification and still did OK at 150, but struggled at 200. .
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Giving yourself an advantage in a gunfight is always a plus! Attachment 938324
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U.S. Army/Sgt./67N (Aviation/1st CAV DIV, FT. HOOD/2nd INF DIV, S. KOREA/NTC FLT DET, FT. IRWIN) Veteran '81-'86 Last edited by Spartan301; 03-11-2021 at 6:42 AM.. |
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Pump or Semi?
My Benelli M4 is easy on the shoulder. (Mesa Tactical Stock with Limbsaver recoil pad) Using a pump, it would probably be helpful.
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U.S. Army/Sgt./67N (Aviation/1st CAV DIV, FT. HOOD/2nd INF DIV, S. KOREA/NTC FLT DET, FT. IRWIN) Veteran '81-'86 Last edited by Spartan301; 09-20-2020 at 7:56 AM.. |
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@AAShooter - What's your rationale? I see no real difference between a receiver mounted sidesaddle and a matchsaver. In fact I'd say that you'd be hard-pressed to set yourself up better than a matchsaver for a select slug. Are you saying you prefer stock, unmodified weapons for defensive purposes? Is a sidesaddle ok? If so, why not a matchsaver? Due to them being borne out of the competition shooting scene rather than defensive? Not trying to be a jerk or anything, I'm genuinely interested in your thought process. |
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Precision Rifle class: Questions please.
For those who have taken Precision Rifle, do I need a sling?
Most of the time the gun is down on the ground, right? Is the sling just to carry it to weapon inspection, in and out of the car, etc? I read somewhere in this megathread that PR weapons inspection is separate from the usual line? No rules on trigger weight and hand loaded ammo, etc? .
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As far a weapons inspections, the last few times I took PR, they didn't inspect the rifle. It's been a couple of years since I've taken the course so it may have changed, or not. I have a sling on mine just because it's part of the weapon system. Hand loads are permitted because it's part of a precision rifle weapon system. You can pick up your brass. Trigger pull weights are not regulated. A fellow class mate had a trigger measure in ounces. He let me shoot his rifle and just the thought of taking the shot lit the round off. |
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You have to carry around your mat, ammo, etc., right? Do you bring your own spotting scope and tripod? Kestrel? .
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When I finish shooting before others and have to move back to the next distance, I can case up and walk back to wait. If the rifle is cased, I can set it down with others downrange. If you're slung, you'll have to either move back with the entire group or move back and keep it slung until nobody is downrange. What I normally do is move everything back to the next line, drop my stuff off and go back to the firing line. When everybody is packing themselves onto the trailer, I'm already walking down to check my target with only my data book in-hand. If you use a mat, don't take a padded one. It's too bulky and managing it gets old really fast. I use an Eberlestock magic carpet. It's thin and rolls up small. I put it between the rifle case handles and it's easy to move. Some guys have even more compact mats. Some people use a sniper bag/mat combo and that solution seems like a good one. As for a case, I use a Eagle Industries rifle bag. I shoot off a pack so I can pack some ammo in it as well as water and whatever else. You won't need to pack around a lot of ammo since you can get more at lunch or at break. 60 rounds or so should be enough each morning and afternoon. I don't think I've ever used the entire 250 rounds as stated in the requirements. The curriculum has changed since Phase 3 was built so I don't know the actual round count now. (Thanks to Phase 3, there is no more PR2. That was a fun course.) You won't need a spotting scope. A Kestrel would be nice to bring if you have one. I don't. The instructor should have one and he'll call out the environmental conditions (DA, temp.) Remember to record it to build your data. He'll call out the wind speed, so use that to learn to read what it looks and feels like. I don't like to rely on one. One thing to bring, that I don't think is mentioned, is a shemaugh or something to cover your head and scope. It is very helpful when you're shooting into the sun. You won't need to carry your gear very far since you'll have the truck and people mover. You will handle it frequently though. Don't pack too much, just what you need. Don't have a miserable time managing stuff for four days. Have fun! |
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Thanks DRM6000, your reply saved me lots of potential headaches. I plan on flying in and had planned to bring my Pelican case for the class. Now I’ll work on getting a soft case. As I’m using my daughter’s house in Henderson as a staging area, I’ll have one shipped there.
Will they have a spotting scope for anyone to use? Or only for the Rangemaster/instructors? Thanks for the reminder for a dope book. I would have forgotten that one. I’m committed to use a padded mat my daughter got me for Christmas. I did ruin her yoga mat during Rifle Marksmanship. I’ll skip a sling then. One more item to get caught on the bipod legs Do you find the ballistics program in the Kestrel of any use? I have one in my phone, but having to enter my passcode each time I use it is a huge pain in the neck. I’ll use my Practical Rifle belt for the dump and ammo pouches then. The magazines (Tikka T3) are too short and too wide for the mag pouches. .
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There's still some but worst case is you slow down to about 35 mph for a few miles. The commute from Las Vegas Blvd & Flamingo was 55-60 min every day for 4 days.
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Personally, I run an 870 with ghost ring sights. Tritium front sight with an integrated Surefire weapon light and 2-shot extension. I have a side saddle on one of my guns . . . still not sure about them for me. Last edited by AAShooter; 09-21-2020 at 3:08 PM.. |
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What are the issues with them in a defensive scenario? Why not use them? |
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It is interesting to me because these are training scars. Because to pass the skills test, people are putting MatchSaverz on their guns. Before, the skills test had hostage shots, so people were running out to get Vang Comp shotguns for tighter patterns. I wonder what comes next. 200 yard slug shots and we all mount bi-pods to our shotguns?
Last edited by AAShooter; 09-21-2020 at 5:18 PM.. |
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I've never tried the Kestrel ballistics program. If you you have a ballistics app, by all means use it. The real data you gather can fine tune the data in the app. It's so much easier to find the solution. Instead of relying on the app for the solution, I try to come up with it on my own and use the app to check my work and then shoot to confirm. Apps are nice, but you still need to learn to read the wind. I haven't used an app where I can input the wind coming from three different directions at varying speeds between me and the target. Can you disable the passcode on the phone for the duration of each day's class? The course is great deal of fun and requires thinking and problem solving. The PR1, and especially PR2, courses are some of my favorites. |
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Wow, one miss or you're out of DG. But then if you do DG PR, what class beyond PR that do you get to take? How many days were PR1 and PR2? Was Precision Rifle Fundamentals a prerequisite class back then? OK, no spotting scope nor tripod. Good, two less items to pack. Might as well as use the rifle scope itself to look at the target, right? I probably can disable the password on my phone. I'm no teenager who knows these darn phones inside and out. I better ask my daughter LOL . My ballistics app is Ballistics Advantage. As far as I can tell, it only allows for one wind setting, but I've only used it up to 400 yd. Three different wind settings? I can barely read the wind during Rifle Marksmanship at a third or half the distance. .
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I think I read that there is another target to test and filter students out now. You need to pass to progress the to next day. I'm really not sure about that one. As for misses, if you're one -3 in the grey (assuming it's not in the body when it should be in the head and vice versa), you DG. If you DG PR1, there is no where else to go now. In PR2, we shot from all over the property including from the rappelling tower. It can't be done now since we used to shoot towards, into and over where Phase 3 ranges and the road leading to it are. We shot from behind the admin buildings and outside of Phase 2 as well. I attended the last class. (side story: We did a private PR class and we were shooting from Sniper's Point. We were shooting the targets on the PR range. The brown room ranged at 12xx yards at the first target was at 14xx yards. The guy I was shooting with could not miss the 14xx yard target with a .308 win. 16" rifle. Incredible. Stuff nobody will ever get to do again at FS.) PR1 and PR2 were 4D classes. PR fundamentals was not part of the program at the time. DG in Practical Rifle was your ticket into PR1. I haven't taken fundamentals, but I imagine that stuff was covered on Day 1 of the old PR curriculum. About the three wind directions thing: sometimes if you read the mirage and pan back and fourth to the target, you'll see the wind go from left to right up close, right to left midway and left to right at the target. And the speed will vary. Sometimes it's two directions. Sometimes I can figure out the solution, sometimes I can't. Fun stuff. I really need to take PR in it's current form. I wonder if I still have what it takes. I know I'm kinda wordy, but those were some of my favorite classes and I can remember a lot of it. Last edited by DRM6000; 09-21-2020 at 10:54 PM.. |
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The wind reading issue really perplexes me. Doesn’t the proportion of the distance in which a particular wind force prevails affect the bullet flight? And how to account for wind shifts by the time you read the wind, figure out a solution, aim and actually fire? I know, I know, newb questions Yes, I keep hearing about that mid-class test. Pass or go to remedial class. Headshots at 800? I can barely hit it at 7.5 .
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I hear ya on training scars or crutches. But remember Matchsavers do not replace the need to train port loading from side-saddle or belt holders. You still have to end up with a loaded gun on port load drills. Remember these are “shoot 2 load 2”.
On slug select drills it does give you some extra time to aim, but time is generally not a big factor in this drill. They are an aid, not a replacement for training. In the last class I took, about the same number DG’d with pump guns having no MS as did semi’s running with MS. I did not DG my class in January because my hands got so cold the MS didn’t help. Training is still number one. |
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Cress did not mention them during the 2-day. I don't think anyone in the class had one. Seems like he wouldn't be a fan.
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Ah. I guess I wasn't paying much attention to him. I think you meant, when the "gun" ran, right? I don't recall him having issues.
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