Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > California handguns
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 12-03-2019, 6:37 PM
BuckshotBob's Avatar
BuckshotBob BuckshotBob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ventura County,CA
Posts: 218
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1919_4_ME View Post
TitleII Arms also makes a nice 3-lug barrel extension for them.

www.titleiiarms.com/MP5_3_Lug_Light_Model.html
I like the way that looks, if this was pinned and welded would it be reversible if I ever moved to a free state and want to SBR it? Also, would pinning and welding that negatively affect accuracy?
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 12-03-2019, 7:32 PM
SloChicken's Avatar
SloChicken SloChicken is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: McKinzie River, OR - Wilson, WY, LV, Abq.
Posts: 3,728
iTrader: 46 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
(make) H&K (model) SP5
That is already out, I thought these guys are saying there is a MP5 coming to market.


Yeah,

Quitit.

Like the other guy said,

__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali-Shooter
To me, it was a fist-fight, except that I did not counter-attack.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 12-03-2019, 7:34 PM
SloChicken's Avatar
SloChicken SloChicken is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: McKinzie River, OR - Wilson, WY, LV, Abq.
Posts: 3,728
iTrader: 46 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckshotBob View Post
I like the way that looks, if this was pinned and welded would it be reversible if I ever moved to a free state and want to SBR it? Also, would pinning and welding that negatively affect accuracy?
Couldnít one just buy a 3lug barrel?
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali-Shooter
To me, it was a fist-fight, except that I did not counter-attack.
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 12-03-2019, 10:07 PM
1919_4_ME's Avatar
1919_4_ME 1919_4_ME is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Socal
Posts: 2,113
iTrader: 54 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckshotBob View Post
I like the way that looks, if this was pinned and welded would it be reversible if I ever moved to a free state and want to SBR it? Also, would pinning and welding that negatively affect accuracy?
Yep its fully reversible if you move out of state. Doesn't effect accuracy.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 12-03-2019, 10:17 PM
Sputnik's Avatar
Sputnik Sputnik is offline
Shiny
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: East Bay
Posts: 1,616
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckshotBob View Post
I like the way that looks, if this was pinned and welded would it be reversible if I ever moved to a free state and want to SBR it? Also, would pinning and welding that negatively affect accuracy?
If that one works the way it looks to you shouldn't even have to drill your barrel for the pin. You'd drill the twist on part of the extension and put the pin there so it can't twist back off again. Only the extension has a hole in it and the barrel stays pristine. But thats a guess until I order one to try out
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:31 PM
nitroxdiver's Avatar
nitroxdiver nitroxdiver is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not in California
Posts: 4,668
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default Factory HK MP5 pistols are coming to the USA





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 12-05-2019, 2:59 PM
nitroxdiver's Avatar
nitroxdiver nitroxdiver is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not in California
Posts: 4,668
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Got on the list for an SP5 today. Im number 3 on the list. tick tock.
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 12-05-2019, 7:56 PM
norcal77's Avatar
norcal77 norcal77 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Not the Bay Area anymore
Posts: 3,706
iTrader: 77 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by highpower View Post
Not to crap on the MP5 love fest, but I find that I can't get all that excited about these.

Here's how I see it; I have shot real MP5's many times and while I think that they are neat and all that, they are HUGE and very heavy for a 9mm pistol. If you put something on the rear to make them easier to handle like a stock (think SBR), or an arm brace, then they are under powered for what I consider a useful carbine should be.

And on that subject, I personally see no real practical use for any type of a PCC, the only reason I see to get an MP5 or any other semi auto clone of a sub gun is because they look cool, but speaking just for me, 'cool' is not worth what they are going to cost. If I just had to have a MP5 type gun, I would rather spend less and get one of the off brand versions of the same thing.

Of course I can only speak for myself, but I have had a few pistol caliber carbines so my not particularly liking them is based on my own personal experience. At this point in my life I would only want one of these is if it came with a functioning fun switch or it was priced at no more than a grand. I know, I know, fat chance of either happening.
Agreed, without the fun button itís no diff than a handgun..
__________________
"When once our feet have touched this soil, when once we have made this land our home, wherever our place of birth, whatever our race, we are all blended in one common country. All artificial distinctions of lineage and rank are cast aside. We all rejoice in the title of Americans."
-Former President Calvin Coolidge
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 12-05-2019, 8:51 PM
theLBC's Avatar
theLBC theLBC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: the lbc
Posts: 1,377
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

did anyone get one yet?

i am not sure what length barrel i would want.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 12-05-2019, 9:49 PM
igs igs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 269
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

__________________
If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun.
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 12-06-2019, 3:25 PM
mlevans66's Avatar
mlevans66 mlevans66 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Now in a free state
Posts: 9,529
iTrader: 47 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by norcal77 View Post
Agreed, without the fun button itís no diff than a handgun..
Expect its not anything like a handgun.
__________________
The liberal see's the glass as half full and tries to take more.
The conservative see's glass as half empty and tries to keep it that way.
I'm with the people on the side just pouring water in the glass trying to get a drink!
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 12-06-2019, 5:41 PM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,998
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Iím fighting this urge to put one on order, but often that means getting it at MSRP or more. Glad I jumped on the Bren 2 bandwagon (not the Bren 2MS), but the circumstances were different back then. Even CZ did not announce that batch was arriving, and it turned out that they had planned a slightly different version for us, whereas on the SP5 HK announced it with fanfare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroxdiver View Post
Got on the list for an SP5 today. Im number 3 on the list. tick tock.
Congrats. Did you reserve it at MSRP?


Quote:
Originally Posted by theLBC View Post
did anyone get one yet?

i am not sure what length barrel i would want.
What choices do we get?


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 12-06-2019, 6:26 PM
nitroxdiver's Avatar
nitroxdiver nitroxdiver is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not in California
Posts: 4,668
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post



Congrats. Did you reserve it at MSRP?




.


I believe it will be. The shop didnít quote me a price because they are on a distribution list as well waiting for their order. They are not known for jacking their customers though, i didnít have to put any money down, and i donít have to buy it when they show up. Iím 3rd in line on the list. Heís trying to get as many as he can.

In the mean time, i have my sp5k and i have access to an actual mp5a3.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 12-07-2019, 5:07 AM
BuckshotBob's Avatar
BuckshotBob BuckshotBob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ventura County,CA
Posts: 218
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post



What choices do we get?


.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but your choice is the SP5 which has an 8.85 inch barrel that would require a pinned and welded barrel extension that is long enough to bring the total barrel length to 16 inches along with either a fixed magazine or a featureless build (no flash suppressor, pistol grip, forward pistol grip, telescoping or folding stock, grenade or flare launcher) The other choice is the SP5L that has a 16 inch barrel (I'm not sure if HK officially announced this one yet but but it's supposedly on it's way), both options require a stock and need to be DROSd as a rifle. If you are somehow roster exempt then you could DROS as a pistol but still would need a fixed magazine.
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 12-07-2019, 5:42 AM
SloChicken's Avatar
SloChicken SloChicken is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: McKinzie River, OR - Wilson, WY, LV, Abq.
Posts: 3,728
iTrader: 46 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckshotBob View Post
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but your choice is the SP5 which has an 8.85 inch barrel that would require a pinned and welded barrel extension that is long enough to bring the total barrel length to 16 inches along with either a fixed magazine or a featureless build (no flash suppressor, pistol grip, forward pistol grip, telescoping or folding stock, grenade or flare launcher) The other choice is the SP5L that has a 16 inch barrel (I'm not sure if HK officially announced this one yet but but it's supposedly on it's way), both options require a stock and need to be DROSd as a rifle. If you are somehow roster exempt then you could DROS as a pistol but still would need a fixed magazine.
Or jump the sinking ship and swim to freedom
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali-Shooter
To me, it was a fist-fight, except that I did not counter-attack.
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 12-07-2019, 5:48 AM
DevilDawgJJ's Avatar
DevilDawgJJ DevilDawgJJ is offline
Pitbull Apologist
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 1,424
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

When it comes out in 10mm, I'll go into debt.

9mm. Pfft!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHT762 View Post
Can I bring my Donkey? He loves Chunky Monkey.
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 12-07-2019, 6:21 AM
highpower's Avatar
highpower highpower is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cold Springs, NV
Posts: 3,527
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlevans66 View Post
Expect its not anything like a handgun.
You're right. What it is, is a heavy, bulky firearm that shoots 9mm Parabellum. Exactly the same cartridge as any number of handguns that shoot the same round in a smaller, lighter and more easily concealed package. Add to that in the PRC you are going to be limited to ten rounds, so you might as well have a Glock.

IMO, without the capability to go rock-n-roll, it's just an expensive cool toy. The concept of a pistol caliber carbine has been around for well over a hundred years (I have a stocked Broomhandle and a Artillery Luger both made in 1916) and there is a reason why nobody except civilians gets excited about them.
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 12-07-2019, 8:24 AM
tuna quesadilla tuna quesadilla is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: A Free State
Posts: 4,566
iTrader: 54 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by highpower View Post
IMO, without the capability to go rock-n-roll, it's just an expensive cool toy.
Come on, you know that's what most of our guns are. My gun collection has been hovering around 20 guns for the past few years, and I can only honestly say that about 6 or 7 of them are "serious" guns with a specific and directed purpose--that is CCW, home defense, hunting, and introducing new shooters. The rest of them, I only own because holding them at the range and making them go "bang" puts a smile on my face, all other factors be damned.

Being an "expensive cool toy" is MORE than enough justification to add a gun to your collection, if you can responsibly afford it.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 12-07-2019, 8:45 AM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: canoga park, ca
Posts: 13,396
iTrader: 91 / 100%
Default

So in Ca you have to fix the mag and load from the side. Oh shucks not in Ca does not have microstamping

Last edited by edgerly779; 12-07-2019 at 8:53 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 12-07-2019, 8:47 AM
oddball oddball is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In A Much Better Place
Posts: 1,199
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroxdiver View Post
Got on the list for an SP5 today. Im number 3 on the list. tick tock.
Cool. I'm going to wait until early next year when the rush subsides. I'm actually waiting to see a "K" model, rumored to come out in Jan. I imagine similar to the current SP5K, but with a paddle release, and threaded/lug barrel. Folks on HKPRO are in a rush , partly to be the first ones, but also partly they think an election year might make things dicey. I'm confident that Trump will get re-elected.

As far "expensive cool toy", I would absolutely classify the new SP5s as this. Like the post above me, the majority of my firearms are not practical ones. If I was strictly pragmatic and practical, I would just own my Glock G17 MOS, G43, one AR15, one 10/22, and a shotty, all to cover my home defense and CCW. My Beretta Silver Pigeon is not practical, nor my M1 Garand, my target .22LR rifles, my various 6" revolvers, or my lever actions.
__________________
_______________


"You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas" - Davy Crockett
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 12-07-2019, 8:52 AM
highpower's Avatar
highpower highpower is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cold Springs, NV
Posts: 3,527
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I certainly understand the "cool toy" concept. I currently am running at a bit north of 120 firearms, the vast majority of which have no real practical use. Things like my Broomhandles and Lugers are in my hoard solely because I want them, not because I am planning to use them for the Zombie Apocalypse or things that go bump in the night. I merely made my statement because of the comments from the posters that seem to think that a heavy and bulky 9mm "handgun" is going to be a viable weapon that fills a niche that can't be filled with a less awkward firearm. Along with that you folks in Commiefornia are stuck with that stupid ten round magazine limit and I personally would have a tough time justifying spending $2500 on one.

If you were to add select fire and a can, well then heck yeah, then you have one sweet little SMG, which is, of course, what they were designed to be. Even with my disclaimers, I really do think they are cool AF and if I could find one for around a grand, I would probably succumb to the allure and buy one myself. However I currently have a couple of suppressed SBR's that will more than suffice for any SHTF daydreams I may have.
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 12-07-2019, 11:18 PM
Damiiaaannn's Avatar
Damiiaaannn Damiiaaannn is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fresno
Posts: 3,333
iTrader: 50 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroxdiver View Post
Got on the list for an SP5 today. Im number 3 on the list. tick tock.
Of course you did.
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 12-08-2019, 8:07 AM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,998
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckshotBob View Post
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but your choice is the SP5 which has an 8.85 inch barrel that would require a pinned and welded barrel extension that is long enough to bring the total barrel length to 16 inches along with either a fixed magazine or a featureless build (no flash suppressor, pistol grip, forward pistol grip, telescoping or folding stock, grenade or flare launcher) The other choice is the SP5L that has a 16 inch barrel (I'm not sure if HK officially announced this one yet but but it's supposedly on it's way), both options require a stock and need to be DROSd as a rifle. If you are somehow roster exempt then you could DROS as a pistol but still would need a fixed magazine.
I'll probably stick with the way HK makes them, other than with the addition of a stock and a binary trigger. My new toys are not in CA, my old CA collection stays the way it is since 12/31/2016.

I've had abysmal experience converting pistols into rifles. You guys may have better luck than me, but my MPX and Bren 805 pistols that were converted into CA-compliant rifles when I was there were pretty darn inaccurate. I suspect the extensions were messing with the barrel harmonics, because I soon as I put a new upper on the MPX and new barrel on the 805, the inaccuracy woes went away.

Fixed magazines sound like a huge PITA. Is loading it like bottom feeding a pump shotgun?


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 12-08-2019, 1:48 PM
BuckshotBob's Avatar
BuckshotBob BuckshotBob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ventura County,CA
Posts: 218
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
I'll probably stick with the way HK makes them, other than with the addition of a stock and a binary trigger. My new toys are not in CA, my old CA collection stays the way it is since 12/31/2016.

I've had abysmal experience converting pistols into rifles. You guys may have better luck than me, but my MPX and Bren 805 pistols that were converted into CA-compliant rifles when I was there were pretty darn inaccurate. I suspect the extensions were messing with the barrel harmonics, because I soon as I put a new upper on the MPX and new barrel on the 805, the inaccuracy woes went away.

Fixed magazines sound like a huge PITA. Is loading it like bottom feeding a pump shotgun?


.
I have used fixed magazines for the AR15 platform and it isn't too bad with the mean arms ma loader, definitely something I would only use for a range toy though. I dont think anyone makes something similar right now for the MP5 platform so it seems like the fixed magazine wouldn't be very practical. The only good thing about the fixed magazine is that there are no permanent mods and it's easily reversed. How bad was the accuracy in the MPX and the 805? I was hoping that a barrel extension using the tri lug system wouldn't negatively affect accuracy but now I'm wondering if the SP5L would be the better route.
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 12-09-2019, 9:46 PM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,998
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

The hunt for an SP5 at a sub-MSRP prices has been frustrating. Twice a reliable shop sent me a back-in-stock notification at a decent price since the weekend and twice someone else beat me to it . I refuse to pay rape-me prices since in a few months I'll kick myself for paying that kind of money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckshotBob View Post
How bad was the accuracy in the MPX and the 805? I was hoping that a barrel extension using the tri lug system wouldn't negatively affect accuracy but now I'm wondering if the SP5L would be the better route.
It was terrible. The 805 wouldn't group even at 50 yd with Federal M193, the MPX was a total embarrassment at the range with S&B 124 gr. I could do much better with a handgun. These were off sandbags too.

I'd hold off for the SP5L if I were stuck in CA based on my experience with those two. Then I'd go the featureless rifle route instead the fixed mag route. Since I'm not, starting off with the short version is the better route to an SBR for me.


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 12-09-2019, 10:50 PM
1919_4_ME's Avatar
1919_4_ME 1919_4_ME is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Socal
Posts: 2,113
iTrader: 54 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
The hunt for an SP5 at a sub-MSRP prices has been frustrating. Twice a reliable shop sent me a back-in-stock notification at a decent price since the weekend and twice someone else beat me to it . I refuse to pay rape-me prices since in a few months I'll kick myself for paying that kind of money.



.
Heard Riflegear got 10 of them. Sold out in 30 minutes.

https://www.riflegear.com/p-12050-hk...-magazine.aspx
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 12-09-2019, 11:34 PM
SloChicken's Avatar
SloChicken SloChicken is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: McKinzie River, OR - Wilson, WY, LV, Abq.
Posts: 3,728
iTrader: 46 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1919_4_ME View Post
Heard Riflegear got 10 of them. Sold out in 30 minutes.

https://www.riflegear.com/p-12050-hk...-magazine.aspx
L.A.

...
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali-Shooter
To me, it was a fist-fight, except that I did not counter-attack.
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 12-10-2019, 7:34 AM
beanz2's Avatar
beanz2 beanz2 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,998
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1919_4_ME View Post
Heard Riflegear got 10 of them. Sold out in 30 minutes.

https://www.riflegear.com/p-12050-hk...-magazine.aspx
Thanks. If I wanted to pay MSRP, it wouldnít as challenging though. But Iím really cheap LOL. Still nice to see there is a steady stream coming in from HK, which means sooner or later the retailers would have to get competitive in pricing. I still think by summer time they will have to start selling below MSRP. You all remember how the VP9 dropped in price after a few months after newer guns are introduced. Well, SHOT is in February.

The only external factor is the election. This impeachment shiite is keeping the House occupied and doubtful they will have time to pull any gun control shenanigans, but if there is strong doubt if 45 is keeping office in Ď20, another rush might be on.


.
__________________

The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 12-12-2019, 2:42 PM
nitroxdiver's Avatar
nitroxdiver nitroxdiver is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Not in California
Posts: 4,668
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Tim from Military Arms channel on YT just released a nice video on the new sp5 including shooting it suppressed. Multiple ammo types, bullet weights, and suppressed and unsuppressed, also old german straight mags and the modern as included curved mags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 12-12-2019, 3:24 PM
victorr's Avatar
victorr victorr is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IE/SGV
Posts: 875
iTrader: 145 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
the MPX was a total embarrassment at the range with S&B 124 gr. I could do much better with a handgun. These were off sandbags too.
Man, my experience exactly. What a POS the MPX was with the barrel extension. An old dude with an older Ruger PC9 was shooting next to me and he just looked at me and shook his head LOL. I then got a proper carbine upper and problem solved. Piece of cake hitting the smaller steel targets out at the 100 yard line now shooting free hand and clover groups at 50 yards without trying (on a bag).

My experience is different with an HK clone with 3 lug and barrel extension. No shift of POI when the extension was put on and it groups very well. It obviously had to do with the extension. The one I'm using is like the one in the pic (not my gun obv.) and I got it off of HKParts.net. It wasn't finished, so had to have it cerakoted.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:11 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.