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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 01-07-2016, 9:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffyhog View Post
My teenagers want to drive, gamble, buy guns, alcohol, and cigarettes. They say they feel much older than they really are. They say they feel like adults trapped in the bodies of children. They do seem quite mature for their ages. If a man can become a woman, and a 52 year old man can become a 6 year-old girl, shouldn't children be able to be classified as adults if they want?

Do you think the liberal judges that allow prison inmates to undergo sex change operations, and men to be reclassified as women would allow my children to become adults? Maybe I should start a new thread. Been thinking about it for a while, but your comment got me going.
Actually, yes, they can file for an emancipation through the courts to be considered legal adults. I don't know what requirements there are for it though.
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I think Claire Wolf said it best as "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
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Seriously??
Have you looked around?
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  #162  
Old 01-07-2016, 10:03 AM
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I don't know what requirements there are for it though.
The child has to prove that they are self-sufficient. That rules out nearly all of them, except for a handful of young entrepreneurs and entertainers.

It also doesn't legally change their age to that of an adult, it simply entitles them to have power of attorney over themselves, instead of their parents, with regards to legal paperwork and such. It's not like they can suddenly go out and buy tobacco and longguns. Your birthday won't change on your driver's license. So it's a bit different than the sex-change argument, as doing a sex-change effectively makes you the other gender - your license change, your passport will change, you'll use the opposite restrooms, etc.
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  #163  
Old 01-07-2016, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
The child has to prove that they are self-sufficient. That rules out nearly all of them, except for a handful of young entrepreneurs and entertainers.
Unless the parent signs off on it. Happened with my ex and one of her kids that tricked her into signing it.
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I think Claire Wolf said it best as "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
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Seriously??
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  #164  
Old 01-07-2016, 10:16 AM
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Unless the parent signs off on it. Happened with my ex and one of her kids that tricked her into signing it.
I'd love to hear the story behind that one. In my head, I'm imagining it went something like this:

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  #165  
Old 01-07-2016, 6:00 PM
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You know....yea, kinda like that without the 2nd kid.
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I think Claire Wolf said it best as "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
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Seriously??
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  #166  
Old 01-08-2016, 6:33 AM
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I sent out an e-mail to eight of my friends yesterday offering to pay for 4 people to sign up with the NRA. 2 people responded to accept the offer, 1 said he was already planning to sign up (and did), and 4 said they had already signed up in the last 2 months due to the BS from our President. The 4 that had previously signed up try to avoid Politics at all costs, but decided they had no choice but to get involved. Hopefully this same thought process is going on Nationally and there will be a significant spike in NRA membership.
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  #167  
Old 01-08-2016, 7:42 AM
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Originally Posted by HPBrowningMK3 View Post
My pledge today is to buy 5 yearly memberships for people this month. I already have 1 person in mind.
Props to ya man!

As crazy as I may sound, I'm thinking that your method might actually prove more successful than getting a hoard of NRA members to gang up, insult and belittle non-member gun owners into joining..

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Would anyone like to try and guess how many new members we've insulted into joining us today??? Maybe if we accuse all non-members of "peeing sitting down" - they'll want to sign up! Yeah, lets try that!!
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  #168  
Old 01-08-2016, 8:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Well, we have talked about this before.

I don't think the following individuals would agree with your implication
that the NRA is currently a racist organization:




Shaneen Allen:




Colion Noir:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=oJr3VVXfxAU



Yeah, so they've got a few now ("see, we've got a couple!"). Big whoop. Still doesn't change anything I've pointed out in this thread, as well as previously, and you're right, we have talked about this before.

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Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
I still think you should Rejoin NRA, with at least a 5 year membership
(so you can vote) and make your voice heard if they do something
you disagree with.
I know you do. But they've made it clear that Liberal gun owners, in their world, just don't exist. So, you, as a member, might consider writing to them and advising them to quit alienating us Liberal gun owners if they want our membership.

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Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
I don't recall the NRA taking an official position opposing " illegal immigration ",
but even if your correct in your assertion, what is wrong
with not supporting an ILLEGAL act ?
Because it's supposed to be a gun rights organization. They keep claiming they're single issue, even when they're clearly not, be it "official" or otherwise. IANAL, but when I hear their leaders going off on political party tangents unrelated to the preservation of the 2A, that looks pretty "official" to me.

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Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
And the NRA now leans Republican because the Republican Party Platform
is PRO 2nd Amendment, and the
Democrat Party Platform is ANTI 2nd Amendment.
Actually, the NRA has been leaning "good ol' boy" for too long, regardless of Party. It happens that thanks to the Southern Strategy, the South flipped from D to R and has been that way since. Same folks, same mindset. And the NRA continues to pander to it in their publications.

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Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
If the Democrats suddenly turned PRO GUN, they would once again get
support from the NRA.
Indeed. The NRA is always looking for money, power, and influence for their leadership.

But I don't give a rip about the Democrats. I'm a Liberal, not a Democrat. The NRA leadership should be reaching out to Liberal gun owners, and there are many of us. We just see that we're not particularly wanted over there at the NRA, and so we respect that and leave them alone. See my above response as well.

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Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Quick question, The Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL), do you recall
off hand how many members ? (Do they have sufficient numbers to
affect politicians views on Gun Rights ?) I would LOVE to see you guys
punish the Democrat Governor and his Democrat lackey Attorney General
Mark R. Herring for revoking 25 states ccw permits.
Noble
Offhand, I believe it's something like 6,000 members. Turns out the VCDL does affect politicians' views on gun rights. It's in good part because of the VCDL that the Bloomberg-funded candidates for our State midterm election failed. Bloom-boy put in over $2 million into two State Senate races this go-around. He had Gov. McAwful running around the state barnstorming big-time for these antis. Bloom-boy and McAwful lost in both cases, and now they're slinking back and acting like "the gun issue wasn't a factor, nuttin' to see here, move along." This loss actually cost McAwful a rather large amount of political capital. So, in this way, we've punished him some already, and we will continue.

It's because of the VCDL that Virginia became a shall-issue state. Here are a few more things they've done.

- State-wide preemption so, for example, Arlington and Fairfax Counties cannot enact any restrictions stricter than State law.
- Got rid of the ban on CC'ing in so-called "bars" (VA doesn't actually have bars, by law, but restaurants can certainly, and do, serve booze).
- Got rid of "one handgun a month".
- Got state-wide pre-emption extended to "pneumatic guns" (airguns).
- Improved the law for penalizing inadvertent carry on school grounds. This is one of the few pro-gun-owner bills we actually got McAwful to sign.
- Got concealed handgun permit (CHP) holders' information exempted from FOIA requests, in the wake of those hypocritical Journal-News fools in New York.
- Got rid of the fingerprint requirement in some municipalities for CHP's. That's right, we don't require fingerprints anymore.
- Got a new law passed and signed that holds local municipalities legally and financially responsible (i. e. they can be sued, including for attorneys' fees) for local statutes in violation of state-wide pre-emption. This is basically the "lite" version of Florida's law which does something similar.

And the VCDL has challenged illegal act after illegal act on the part of municipal officials who think that State pre-emption somehow doesn't apply to them.

So, yeah, they're actually pretty doggone effective.

And regarding Atty Gen. "Red" Herring, yes, we are working on punishing him for that. We are *MAD AS HORNETS* about the evil act that Red Herring committed. We are also working on punishing McAwful for his illegal Executive Order #50, basically "no carry in State-owned facilities unless you're LEO". Both of these problems are going to take some time to resolve. But we are working on it.

Come Lobby Day (falls on MLK Jr. Day), we once again will be in the State General Assembly lobbying our elected officials. And, as always, we will be doing so while armed in accordance with the law. Yes, we can and do carry legally in the General Assembly building here! That is *legal* here. And I will be among them, Model 629 holstered at my side.
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  #169  
Old 01-08-2016, 9:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Triiik View Post
One of the members wrote in this thread, that it's either us or them. There is no middle ground in this debate and this seems the big issue for some people, that can not or will not identify with either of the two options in this debate. Like me, for example. NRA is too political for my taste, and politics has nothing to do with gun rights. Or at least shouldn't be about politics.

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Tell that to the Democrats that have made gun control as part of their national platform. How else is an organization going to fight for gun rights when it's the Democrat party that is making it a political issue?
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  #170  
Old 01-08-2016, 9:53 PM
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Originally Posted by shda5582 View Post
Funny seeing this, in a thread where the OP (just even a few posts ago) is decrying the "us vs them" mentality that Obama is perpetuating and then you go and do the same thing. When it comes to gun rights, it does not matter if you're in the NRA or not, you have the ability and right to exercise your civil rights AND voice your opinion when it comes to gun rights discussions regardless of NRA membership or not. This mentality that you have displayed does NOTHING to help solidify gun owners at a time when we do NOT need to be divided.

We've seen this happen before: any time when new laws/regulations come along that don't effect them, the hunters have sat out thinking that if they don't say anything then they'll be overlooked by the anti-gunners (hint: they aren't); when if they had banded together with us "scary black rifle people" we could have stood a better chance (and maybe even won) against the laws that were being stacked against us.

But no. The anti's have used a divide and conquer strategy that works time and time again, pitting gun owners against each other because they play off of the exact same attitude that you show. We need to stop this NOW, band together as one force, and fight together. History has shown us in this country that when that happens, you get results instead of failing because of infighting which is exactly what we do as gun owners in general.
And that ONE FORCE with the power that enables us to fight together, is the NRA.
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  #171  
Old 01-08-2016, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Cowboy T View Post
Yeah, so they've got a few now ("see, we've got a couple!"). Big whoop. Still doesn't change anything I've pointed out in this thread, as well as previously, and you're right, we have talked about this before.

Blacks compose about 12% of the US population, so of course,
in an "average" situation, you will always have whites vastly out
numbering blacks.

And yes, this would depend on the demographics of a given area, but
you see my point, right ? And Shaneen Allen was the lady caught up in
draconian New Jersey Gun Control lunacy, and the NRA stepped forward
to help her successfully. Same with the Sheriff. I was proud
to be an NRA member when we stepped forward to help.


I know you do. But they've made it clear that Liberal gun owners, in their world, just don't exist. So, you, as a member, might consider writing to them and advising them to quit alienating us Liberal gun owners if they want our membership.

You are surrounded by NRA members here on Calguns. Have they not been
respectful to you ?


Because it's supposed to be a gun rights organization. They keep claiming they're single issue, even when they're clearly not, be it "official" or otherwise. IANAL, but when I hear their leaders going off on political party tangents unrelated to the preservation of the 2A, that looks pretty "official" to me.

I agree with you as far as a Gun Rights single focus. Let me rephrase to say
#1... I have Not Seen an NRA publication talking about Illegal immigration,
if you have a link, I will review it. #2... Not Supporting an Illegal Act doesn't
mean you are advocating the issue... for example, the default position for
most people is Not To Support Illegal Acts, be it Rape, Murder, etc.


Actually, the NRA has been leaning "good ol' boy" for too long, regardless of Party. It happens that thanks to the Southern Strategy, the South flipped from D to R and has been that way since. Same folks, same mindset. And the NRA continues to pander to it in their publications.

Everyone in the NRA holds this view ? I certainly don't.
None of the NRA people I've met have it either. Within any large,
nationwide organization, your going to have some A-Holes.
You should not let them Stop you from joining.


Indeed. The NRA is always looking for money, power, and influence for their leadership.

True. It is also why the NRA is the 800.lb Gorilla for Gun Rights.

But I don't give a rip about the Democrats. I'm a Liberal, not a Democrat. The NRA leadership should be reaching out to Liberal gun owners, and there are many of us. We just see that we're not particularly wanted over there at the NRA, and so we respect that and leave them alone. See my above response as well.

Most self professed Liberals are Anti Gun, Poll after Poll shows this.

Like it or not, but the majority of people who call themselves Liberal
have staked out support for Gun Control. Your one of the exceptions
to this, obviously, but the NRA didn't create this, the majority of
liberals did.




Offhand, I believe it's something like 6,000 members. Turns out the VCDL does affect politicians' views on gun rights. It's in good part because of the VCDL that the Bloomberg-funded candidates for our State midterm election failed. Bloom-boy put in over $2 million into two State Senate races this go-around. He had Gov. McAwful running around the state barnstorming big-time for these antis. Bloom-boy and McAwful lost in both cases, and now they're slinking back and acting like "the gun issue wasn't a factor, nuttin' to see here, move along." This loss actually cost McAwful a rather large amount of political capital. So, in this way, we've punished him some already, and we will continue.

It's because of the VCDL that Virginia became a shall-issue state. Here are a few more things they've done.

- State-wide preemption so, for example, Arlington and Fairfax Counties cannot enact any restrictions stricter than State law.
- Got rid of the ban on CC'ing in so-called "bars" (VA doesn't actually have bars, by law, but restaurants can certainly, and do, serve booze).
- Got rid of "one handgun a month".
- Got state-wide pre-emption extended to "pneumatic guns" (airguns).
- Improved the law for penalizing inadvertent carry on school grounds. This is one of the few pro-gun-owner bills we actually got McAwful to sign.
- Got concealed handgun permit (CHP) holders' information exempted from FOIA requests, in the wake of those hypocritical Journal-News fools in New York.
- Got rid of the fingerprint requirement in some municipalities for CHP's. That's right, we don't require fingerprints anymore.
- Got a new law passed and signed that holds local municipalities legally and financially responsible (i. e. they can be sued, including for attorneys' fees) for local statutes in violation of state-wide pre-emption. This is basically the "lite" version of Florida's law which does something similar.

And the VCDL has challenged illegal act after illegal act on the part of municipal officials who think that State pre-emption somehow doesn't apply to them.

So, yeah, they're actually pretty doggone effective.

And regarding Atty Gen. "Red" Herring, yes, we are working on punishing him for that. We are *MAD AS HORNETS* about the evil act that Red Herring committed. We are also working on punishing McAwful for his illegal Executive Order #50, basically "no carry in State-owned facilities unless you're LEO". Both of these problems are going to take some time to resolve. But we are working on it.

Come Lobby Day (falls on MLK Jr. Day), we once again will be in the State General Assembly lobbying our elected officials. And, as always, we will be doing so while armed in accordance with the law. Yes, we can and do carry legally in the General Assembly building here! That is *legal* here. And I will be among them, Model 629 holstered at my side.

Excellent. Much better than I had hoped for !
Impressive for 6,000 members. This warms my heart to see you guys make
them squirm and own up to their idiotic BullSh*t...
I guess we will have to Agree to Disagree on the NRA issue for now.

BTW, I just read about what happened to your Dad. I'm So Sorry.
I hope they catch the Human Scum that did this.

Some people deserve a well placed Bullet to the Head, and these four thugs
have certainly earned a one way trip out of existence.


Noble
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  #172  
Old 01-09-2016, 4:24 AM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
Tell that to the Democrats that have made gun control as part of their national platform. How else is an organization going to fight for gun rights when it's the Democrat party that is making it a political issue?
I agree, there are similar political tendencies in Europe. Funny thing is, it's a colorful group of gun rights supporters and the supporters, probably due to multi party systems.

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  #173  
Old 01-09-2016, 9:17 AM
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Tell that to the Democrats that have made gun control as part of their national platform. How else is an organization going to fight for gun rights when it's the Democrat party that is making it a political issue?
Our problem is that the DNC has made the calculation that they will win more votes by being anti-gun than by being pro-gun. They know the are plenty of pro-gun Democrats in the South or in the Midwest. But they've done the math. They know they're alienating some folks, but they don't care - they still come ahead. And with the latest onslaught, they can mobilize the soccer mom vote.

Which would not be a problem leaving us to the GOP if it weren't for the Republicans' insistence on making the same mistake with other issues. But the result will be a lot more costly. Republicans are not going to gain any votes by saying they want to get rid of same sex marriage (good luck with that). They're only going to lose some.
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  #174  
Old 01-09-2016, 10:41 AM
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Our problem is that the DNC has made the calculation that they will win more votes by being anti-gun than by being pro-gun. They know the are plenty of pro-gun Democrats in the South or in the Midwest. But they've done the math. They know they're alienating some folks, but they don't care - they still come ahead. And with the latest onslaught, they can mobilize the soccer mom vote.

Which would not be a problem leaving us to the GOP if it weren't for the Republicans' insistence on making the same mistake with other issues. But the result will be a lot more costly. Republicans are not going to gain any votes by saying they want to get rid of same sex marriage (good luck with that). They're only going to lose some.
And yet when people have actually been allowed to vote on the issue, gay marriage loses almost every time.
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  #175  
Old 01-09-2016, 10:43 AM
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And yet when people have actually been allowed to vote on the issue, gay marriage loses almost every time.
I hope you do realize that if Prop 8 got back on the ballot nowadays, it would get slaughtered.
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  #176  
Old 01-09-2016, 10:52 AM
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I hope you do realize that if Prop 8 got back on the ballot nowadays, it would get slaughtered.
That's CA, not nationwide. Republicans wouldn't win CA even if they supported same sex marriage. The simple fact is that same sex marriage has lost in almost every state where the people have been allowed to vote on it. If it wasn't for judicial fiat, same sex marriage wouldn't exist in most states.
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  #177  
Old 01-11-2016, 5:08 PM
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And yet when people have actually been allowed to vote on the issue, gay marriage loses almost every time.
That statement is also true about the Jim Crow laws of not-so-long-ago. People were actually allowed to vote on those laws, too, and unfortunately they chose "yes", until the SCOTUS repeatedly smacked 'em down.

The argument would also apply to Initiative 594 of Washington State, the "universal background check" initiative. People voted on the issue. The people spoke. Done. Right?

Yeah, that's what I thought. :-)

So, just because a majority of people may choose to vote for something doesn't automatically make it the right thing to do.
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  #178  
Old 01-11-2016, 5:22 PM
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That statement is also true about the Jim Crow laws of not-so-long-ago. People were actually allowed to vote on those laws, too, and unfortunately they chose "yes", until the SCOTUS repeatedly smacked 'em down.

The argument would also apply to Initiative 594 of Washington State, the "universal background check" initiative. People voted on the issue. The people spoke. Done. Right?

Yeah, that's what I thought. :-)

So, just because a majority of people may choose to vote for something doesn't automatically make it the right thing to do.
What did you think? Did you think that you would take one sentence out of a series of post, take it completely out of context, and then make some comment that doesn't fit the actual conversation. If that's what you thought, you succeeded.
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  #179  
Old 01-11-2016, 5:36 PM
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I'm not the one who brought up gay marriage, bud. Go talk to the ones who did.

Indeed, folks, let's get back to the subject of guns.
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To be a true Liberal, you must be 100% pro-Second Amendment. Anything less is inconsistent with liberalism.

Last edited by Cowboy T; 01-11-2016 at 5:40 PM..
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  #180  
Old 01-11-2016, 10:06 PM
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But I don't give a rip about the Democrats. I'm a Liberal, not a Democrat.
Are you sure you mean Liberal and not Libertarian? because reading your posts, you don't sound like a Liberal. You absolutely sound like a Libertarian, and there is a big difference.

People are liberal because they take liberties with the constitution's language, among other things, usually being liberal about their freedoms as well and allowing them to be infringed for the sake of effortless derived goods or services, inviting government to apply controls to that as if seeking a mother to guide them, often convey a feebleness to the point of self-destruction, that government knows best, and will provide, that nobody needs to be solely self sufficient, and everyone should have an equal share whether earned or not.

Libertarians are conservative about their liberties and civil rights, wanting the government to butt out of their affairs; they can handle their own, are fully self sufficient, responsible, and have no desire to stand in line for toilet paper or government cheese. Libertarians eschew the "equal share" construct as Marxism, for they know it leads to Stalinism.
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What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #181  
Old 01-12-2016, 7:44 AM
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I urge all Americans to stand up to all Internationalist, Progressive politicians who would sell out our heritage, our Bill of Rights, and further subjugate this country to the values of Great Britain, Australia, Norway and Mars. Its called, "Vote in the upcoming General Election and tear them out of their seats."
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  #182  
Old 01-12-2016, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by The Gleam View Post
Are you sure you mean Liberal and not Libertarian? because reading your posts, you don't sound like a Liberal. You absolutely sound like a Libertarian, and there is a big difference.

People are liberal because they take liberties with the constitution's language, among other things, usually being liberal about their freedoms as well and allowing them to be infringed for the sake of effortless derived goods or services, inviting government to apply controls to that as if seeking a mother to guide them, often convey a feebleness to the point of self-destruction, that government knows best, and will provide, that nobody needs to be solely self sufficient, and everyone should have an equal share whether earned or not.

Libertarians are conservative about their liberties and civil rights, wanting the government to butt out of their affairs; they can handle their own, are fully self sufficient, responsible, and have no desire to stand in line for toilet paper or government cheese. Libertarians eschew the "equal share" construct as Marxism, for they know it leads to Stalinism.
I've been asked that question many, many times over the last 7 years, especially by my Conservative brothers and sisters who often are aghast at a "pro-2A Liberal" in their midst. :-)

This is my answer to that question.

http://www.liberalsguncorner.com/?p=114
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  #183  
Old 01-12-2016, 3:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
My replies in Bold:



I guess we will have to Agree to Disagree on the NRA issue for now.

BTW, I just read about what happened to your Dad. I'm So Sorry.
I hope they catch the Human Scum that did this.

Some people deserve a well placed Bullet to the Head, and these four thugs
have certainly earned a one way trip out of existence.


Noble
Thanks, Noble. Sen. John McCain once spoke about "a special place in Hell" for certain kinds of people. I think these assailants would qualify.

I also point out, with no small amount of pride, that it was partly because of my Dad, another pro-2A Liberal, that I changed my own view on firearms for the better, seven and a half years ago.

And now his guns protect his son--me.

EDIT: that reminds me, since while staunchly pro-2A, Dad didn't care for the NRA (neither does my Mom), it might help folks to understand some aspects of why. Then, perhaps some changes can be made to make things better.

http://www.cmosnetworks.com/WhyWeNee...eLiberals.html
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http://www.liberalsguncorner.com (podcast)
http://www.youtube.com/sfliberal (YouTube channel)
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To be a true Liberal, you must be 100% pro-Second Amendment. Anything less is inconsistent with liberalism.

Last edited by Cowboy T; 01-12-2016 at 3:45 PM.. Reason: Added why my pro-2A Dad was never an NRA member
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  #184  
Old 01-12-2016, 3:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Cowboy T View Post
Thanks, Noble. Sen. John McCain once spoke about "a special place in Hell" for certain kinds of people. I think these assailants would qualify.

I also point out, with no small amount of pride, that it was partly because of my Dad, another pro-2A Liberal, that I changed my own view on firearms for the better, seven and a half years ago.

And now his guns protect his son--me.

EDIT: that reminds me, since while staunchly pro-2A, Dad didn't care for the NRA (neither does my Mom), it might help folks to understand some aspects of why. Then, perhaps some changes can be made to make things better.

http://www.cmosnetworks.com/WhyWeNee...eLiberals.html
To change the NRA, the people that want change need to get involved and vote for the change. Can't do that if you're not a member.
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  #185  
Old 01-12-2016, 4:23 PM
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To change the NRA, the people that want change need to get involved and vote for the change. Can't do that if you're not a member.
Nice try. Same applies to the KKK, but I'm not going to become a member to try to change it! You're a member, so, *YOU* get *YOUR* fellow members to change, then come talk to me.
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  #186  
Old 01-12-2016, 4:58 PM
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Nice try. Same applies to the KKK, but I'm not going to become a member to try to change it! You're a member, so, *YOU* get *YOUR* fellow members to change, then come talk to me.
Interesting that you would compare the largest and most successful gun rights organization in the USA to the KKK. Tells me all I need to know about your true beliefs on the topic of gun rights
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  #187  
Old 01-12-2016, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cowboy T View Post
I've been asked that question many, many times over the last 7 years, especially by my Conservative brothers and sisters who often are aghast at a "pro-2A Liberal" in their midst. :-)

This is my answer to that question.

http://www.liberalsguncorner.com/?p=114
And you continue to be wrong? That your answer does nothing to explain why you would use the sobriquet "Liberal"?

You do realize it is only coincidence that "liberal" begins the same way as "Libertarian" or "Liberty" but the two are not even remotely related other than to be applied as I described above. Your link merely proves your misunderstanding of the definition of the word itself.

Likewise, "Liberal" was never an admirable term or definition; it was and still is a derogatory epithet. You may wish to call yourself a progressive, even if you are an uninformed one.

But have it I guess.
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #188  
Old 01-12-2016, 8:45 PM
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Nice try. Same applies to the KKK, but I'm not going to become a member to try to change it! You're a member, so, *YOU* get *YOUR* fellow members to change, then come talk to me.
No... go back to your couch. We'll take it from here.

You can thank us AND the NRA... later.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #189  
Old 01-12-2016, 9:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Cowboy T View Post
Nice try. Same applies to the KKK, but I'm not going to become a member to try to change it! You're a member, so, *YOU* get *YOUR* fellow members to change, then come talk to me.
You really should belong to a civil rights org that protects your 2A rights if you value them IMHO. The only effective organization thus far is the NRA (on the national front). Our state organizations have been less effective as we can see by the results, but I'd hate to think how bad it would be if we had nothing.
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