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  #1  
Old 04-06-2021, 7:14 PM
Xerxes Xerxes is offline
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Default DROS QUESTION (Transfer of AR lowers as single-shot pistols)

For the FFL's out there.

Does California DOJ allow AR15 receivers to be transferred as single shot pistols?

If not is it by codified law, case law, circular letter, Horned Devil preaching to the FFL choir, just not an option made by DOJ on the computer drop down so they made it illegal by the computer options thus circumventing public scrutiny, other?

My google fu is not working well for me tonight, so sorry if there are 100 prior threads on this topic, just link to one of the better ones if you do not have the energy to type (to many beers?).

Just trying to figure out why one has to pay $1600+ maybe now a days $2500...... for a Franklin single shot if there is another legal option.
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Old 04-06-2021, 7:29 PM
dummykid dummykid is offline
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u need single shot setup
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Old 04-06-2021, 8:49 PM
Bullets&Whitewalls Bullets&Whitewalls is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
For the FFL's out there.

Does California DOJ allow AR15 receivers to be transferred as single shot pistols?

If not is it by codified law, case law, circular letter, Horned Devil preaching to the FFL choir, just not an option made by DOJ on the computer drop down so they made it illegal by the computer options thus circumventing public scrutiny, other?

My google fu is not working well for me tonight, so sorry if there are 100 prior threads on this topic, just link to one of the better ones if you do not have the energy to type (to many beers?).

Just trying to figure out why one has to pay $1600+ maybe now a days $2500...... for a Franklin single shot if there is another legal option.
The reason people are paying those prices is because the gun you mentioned is not single shot. It is a bolt action repeater. Or they are semi auto. Single shot would mean the ability to only load a single round and fire it. Converting to semi after purchase is a whole nother topic that will undoubtedly de rail this thread.no I am not an FFL

Last edited by Bullets&Whitewalls; 04-06-2021 at 8:51 PM..
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Old 04-06-2021, 9:00 PM
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AFTII AFTII is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
For the FFL's out there.

Does California DOJ allow AR15 receivers to be transferred as single shot pistols?
The short answer is no. An AR receiver cannot be transferred as a single shot pistol.

An AR receiver is not, by definition, an exempted single shot pistol.

"Existing law provides for the testing of handguns and requires the Department of Justice to maintain a roster listing all handguns that are determined not to be unsafe handguns. Existing law makes it a crime, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, to manufacture, import into the state for sale, keep for sale, offer or expose for sale, give, or lend an unsafe handgun. Existing law makes the provisions defining and governing unsafe handguns inapplicable to a single-shot pistol, as specified." AB 1964 (2014)

"(b) Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a break top or bolt action and a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10½ inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled. However, Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall apply to a semiautomatic pistol that has been temporarily or permanently altered so that it will not fire in a semiautomatic mode." Cal. Penal Code Sec. 32100 (2021).

Without a barrel and bolt, there is no exemption. If there is no exemption, Section 31900, et. seq. apply. If those sections apply, the handgun must meet the requirements of a safe handgun, including, drop safe, chamber indicator and, of course, micro stamping. Again, a bare receiver will not pass these tests and is therefore would be an "unsafe" handgun.

Now, if the transferee is exempt from the safe handgun requirements, i.e., a LEO, the receiver could be transferred as a pistol. The same goes for other exempt transactions, such as importation and registration of a receiver acquired from out of state and imported by a new California resident. Otherwise, no.

The other legal option is to find a Class 7 dealer that will assemble a single shot exempt AR for you.

Now a better question is "What is the legal effect, if any, of using a virgin AR receiver that was DROSed in California as a long gun, to build an AR Pistol?" I'm not going to touch that one. Oh, I'm not an FFL either.

Last edited by AFTII; 04-06-2021 at 9:19 PM..
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Old 04-06-2021, 9:25 PM
hitdank hitdank is offline
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As i understand it, you can own short barrels with a california receiver but cannot assemble a pistol while here.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by hitdank View Post
As i understand it, you can own short barrels with a california receiver but cannot assemble a pistol while here.
You should not possess short barrel uppers near rifle lowers unless you have pistol lowers. That goes for every state in the country.

See United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Company, 504 U.S. 505 (1992),
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...stols/download

And there is no such thing as a 'California receiver'

And yes, you can legally build a single shot or bolt action AR pistol here, for instance using a 80% lower.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:44 PM
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Betfair39 Betfair39 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
You should not possess short barrel uppers near rifle lowers unless you have pistol lowers. That goes for every state in the country.

See United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Company, 504 U.S. 505 (1992),
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ru...stols/download

And there is no such thing as a 'California receiver'

And yes, you can legally build a single shot or bolt action AR pistol here, for instance using a 80% lower.
what is close proximity? i understand keeping the two next to one another could be considered "intent to construct'' but how close are we talking about? same house same room? or same gun case? whats the limiting factor here

let's say you have 5 AR lowers and 5 pistol lowers in the same house and you have short-barreled uppers..Do you need to keep them in separate rooms?
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Old 04-07-2021, 6:49 AM
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morrcarr67 morrcarr67 is offline
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Originally Posted by Betfair39 View Post
what is close proximity? i understand keeping the two next to one another could be considered "intent to construct'' but how close are we talking about? same house same room? or same gun case? whats the limiting factor here

let's say you have 5 AR lowers and 5 pistol lowers in the same house and you have short-barreled uppers..Do you need to keep them in separate rooms?
I have read that you can't keep it in the same location. Though I have also read that you can't have any control over one. That includes having control of one in another state. This is for when you don't have a pistol lower or SBR lower.

Now, for those who DO have pistol lowers or SBR lowers it's different. I've read that if you also own rifle lowers that you should own 1 to 1 for your pistols/SBR lowers. And, if you only own pistol/SBR lowers then you can have as many short barreled uppers as you want.

Now, again these are things that I've read and I don't know if they are correct but they do make sense to me.

If you have a mix collection and you have a 1 to 1 ratio for uppers and lowers it's easily defendable that you intend only to configure legal firearms. And, if you only have pistol/SBR lowers having as many different short barreled uppers is no difference than having multiple 16"+ uppers for your single/few rifle lowers.
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”Benitez 3:29 Thou shall not limit magazine capacity”
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Old 04-07-2021, 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Betfair39 View Post
what is close proximity? i understand keeping the two next to one another could be considered "intent to construct'' but how close are we talking about? same house same room?
If it were me I would not keep them on the same property or even within walking distance. The law does not deal with intent to construct. It deals with possession and constructive possession. If you possess the parts the court said you possess the (NFA) gun, if there is no other useful purpose for the parts.

'Possess' could cover a lot of distance, perhaps even spanning multiple properties miles or even cities apart.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 04-07-2021 at 8:37 AM..
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Old 04-07-2021, 9:21 AM
Ki6vsm Ki6vsm is offline
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Originally Posted by Bullets&Whitewalls View Post
Single shot would mean the ability to only load a single round and fire it.
My first thought was, the OP wants to block the mag well and load each round by hand??

I got tired of correcting people here on CGs about this "single shot" business. Too many gun owners need more education on guns and basic terminology.
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Old 04-07-2021, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betfair39 View Post
what is close proximity? i understand keeping the two next to one another could be considered "intent to construct'' but how close are we talking about? same house same room? or same gun case? whats the limiting factor here
Under CA laws...
No intent is required, what's required is the person has possession of or control over or ownership of the parts.
Does not matter where the parts are located.
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Last edited by Quiet; 04-07-2021 at 10:16 AM..
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Old 04-08-2021, 1:31 PM
avocado213 avocado213 is offline
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SkyHawk - Correct me if I'm wrong but that's exactly how folks like 2a Zone in Rancho are able to sell receivers as SSE pistols because they sell you a complete firearm that meets those specifications. After the transaction, they "buy back" the upper from you, leaving you with a complete lower that has been transferred as an SSE pistol. Question is, do they have to block the mag well? If so, can anyone who has purchased such a firearm comment on how the mag well was temporarily blocked such that you were able to convert it to semi later on?
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Old 04-08-2021, 1:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkoo View Post
SkyHawk - Correct me if I'm wrong but that's exactly how folks like 2a Zone in Rancho are able to sell receivers as SSE pistols because they sell you a complete firearm that meets those specifications. After the transaction, they "buy back" the upper from you, leaving you with a complete lower that has been transferred as an SSE pistol. Question is, do they have to block the mag well? If so, can anyone who has purchased such a firearm comment on how the mag well was temporarily blocked such that you were able to convert it to semi later on?
Yes, that is a workaround. Sell a complete pistol, buy back unwanted parts. That is how they are able to sell Glock frames, among others.

I am not sure exactly what 2AZ is doing for their custom single shot P320 though.
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