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  #41  
Old 06-10-2019, 4:22 AM
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Originally Posted by SoCal326 View Post
Can we define "sniping"? What distance should we limit to?....

blah, blah, blah

....I'm not suggesting we do any of this but it's an interesting thought experiment. I wanna hear some more ideas. How do we give the game animal a fair chance at survival but maintain the DF&G quotas for maintaining healthy heard numbers?
And this is how we loose our rights; one anti inspired, ill advised, and do-gooder endorsed trash issue turned into law at at a time. This is how we got stuck with "lead-free" ammo, ID checks for buying ammo, the roster, and the "AW" ban.

What I don't understand is why some on our side feels the need to help our enemies with truly wacked-out ideas, while trying to make this sound like it's a serious issue that needs addressing.

This is anti-hunter BS, and it's premise needs to be thrown out as junk propaganda
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  #42  
Old 06-10-2019, 9:23 AM
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Same as fishing stories, everything gets longer/bigger in the retelling, except how tight your rifle shoots. lol
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  #43  
Old 06-10-2019, 9:34 AM
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Originally Posted by kenl View Post
This is anti-hunter BS, and it's premise needs to be thrown out as junk propaganda
The other side of this argument is, stupid people doing stupid things provide plenty of ammunition to opponents of...anything.

My take is, if you want to use game for live target practice, don't be so far away that you can't recover the animal if it's wounded. I'm aware of one guy who took at shot at 1100 yards across a canyon. Good thing he missed because if he'd wounded the animal, it was a 20 or 30 minute walk just to get to the start of the blood trail.

Now I'll confess I've developed an appreciation for the fine art of sniping varmints, though I tend to stick to distances where I know I can hit the little buggers. For the shooters who think it's a big deal to hit a deer or an elk at better than half a mile, I know someone who gets his kicks shooting ground squirrels half a mile away with a largely stock 22-250 and a Tasco 24x scope. I haven't seen him do it yet but I have no reason to doubt him either.

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Originally Posted by citadelgrad View Post
...there are bambiists who insist that you have to eat what you shoot, or its not “hunting,” or immoral.
Here's what you tell them. In South Africa and Namibia (and maybe a few other places), most game is "farmed" these days on land that was converted from cattle ranching. Hunters take home their trophies. The meat either feeds farm hands or is sold to slaughterhouses. Legal hunting keeps more people employed than eco-tourism does and with a lighter environmental footprint. Botswana just ended a ban on trophy hunting because the loss of employment was driving people to poach.

Also tell them that lots of opponents of hunting have a change of heart when the numbers explode and deer are eating their expensive landscaping, in which case taxpayers end up spending money for "professional hunters" to thin the heard instead of raising money through the sale of licenses.

If someone wants bragging rights for being able to hit live targets at distance, I highly recommend varmints because there are lots of opportunities to shoot them and you don't have to run after the wounded ones.
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  #44  
Old 06-10-2019, 9:36 AM
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Originally Posted by superdave50 View Post
What incident set off this train of thought?

What do you call sniping? Long range hunting, or shoot 'em and leave 'em?

Either way afaik, it's not a very widespread problem

It soon will be. After the libs stop pounding on the AR15 because it's been sufficiently regulated, they'll start screaming about these "much more powerful" rifles and how if they're not good for hunting, what are they good for? and we should get rid of them, too.

Just wait.
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  #45  
Old 06-10-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by kenl View Post
This is anti-hunter BS, and it's premise needs to be thrown out as junk propaganda

This isn't exactly accurate. Hunters don't have a consensus on the issue. Many feel that a "fare chase" is the only honorable way to hunt. Long range hunting doesn't qualify as fare chase.

Boone and Crockett Club has been promoting this philosophy for the last 130 years. Its not a movement started yesterday by a guy on CalGuns. It's already in the public domain so open discussion is acceptable. If you want to silence the free exchange of ideas this isn't the place to do it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_chase

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  #46  
Old 06-10-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by EMP3 View Post
I can predict laws proscribing specific cartridges and limiting scope magnification.

Big game sniping is not hunting. Game sniping hands PITA info it needs to outlaw hunting.

Shoot steel at 1200 yards, not big game animals.
Yes, scope magnification is very deadly...
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  #47  
Old 06-10-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SoCal326 View Post
If you want to silence the free exchange of ideas this isn't the place to do it.
Shut up


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  #48  
Old 06-10-2019, 3:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCal326 View Post
....

If you want to silence the free exchange of ideas this isn't the place to do it.
I don't want to shut down the free exchange of ideas, but this is a false premises that came out of nowhere, and it WILL be used by our enemies to start the next round of bans. The 1st I've heard about this was in this thread. I admit, I do live in the hills, but I try to keep informed, and the way this just popped up smells like false narrative propaganda. A search brings up next to nothing, and what little that shows up is suspect, from questionable sources.

Sorry, there's all types hunters out there, the vast majority who are ethical and stay within the law, using all sorts of methods to bring home the meat. Just because you don't approve of some of the methods doesn't mean they're wrong.

And yes, it's as simple as that. Reject the premise.
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  #49  
Old 06-10-2019, 5:23 PM
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The guys that do it call it long range hunting, not sniping. And you’re damn right they are coming for “high power” bolt rifles next. First they’ll get hunters to say “no one needs to shoot that far to ethically hunt game” and then parade a few of these fools around. Then comes the ban on anything capable of shooting more than a few hundred yards promoted by “ethical sportsmen”.

Don’t give the antis one inch and stand together on hunting rights.
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  #50  
Old 06-10-2019, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
The other side of this argument is, stupid people doing stupid things provide plenty of ammunition to opponents of...anything.

My take is, if you want to use game for live target practice, don't be so far away that you can't recover the animal if it's wounded. I'm aware of one guy who took at shot at 1100 yards across a canyon. Good thing he missed because if he'd wounded the animal, it was a 20 or 30 minute walk just to get to the start of the blood trail.

Now I'll confess I've developed an appreciation for the fine art of sniping varmints, though I tend to stick to distances where I know I can hit the little buggers. For the shooters who think it's a big deal to hit a deer or an elk at better than half a mile, I know someone who gets his kicks shooting ground squirrels half a mile away with a largely stock 22-250 and a Tasco 24x scope. I haven't seen him do it yet but I have no reason to doubt him either.



Here's what you tell them. In South Africa and Namibia (and maybe a few other places), most game is "farmed" these days on land that was converted from cattle ranching. Hunters take home their trophies. The meat either feeds farm hands or is sold to slaughterhouses. Legal hunting keeps more people employed than eco-tourism does and with a lighter environmental footprint. Botswana just ended a ban on trophy hunting because the loss of employment was driving people to poach.

Also tell them that lots of opponents of hunting have a change of heart when the numbers explode and deer are eating their expensive landscaping, in which case taxpayers end up spending money for "professional hunters" to thin the heard instead of raising money through the sale of licenses.

If someone wants bragging rights for being able to hit live targets at distance, I highly recommend varmints because there are lots of opportunities to shoot them and you don't have to run after the wounded ones.
I know what to tell them, i frequently defend trophy hunting on this very forum. Problem is they don’t listen.
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  #51  
Old 06-10-2019, 7:57 PM
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When does hunting season start?
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  #52  
Old 06-10-2019, 9:34 PM
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Up here rifle season starts the second Saturday in August.

And somebody needs to tell the OP that PITA is the Pacific International Trapshooting Association. Once you get good there you Hunt ducks at 100 yards.
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  #53  
Old 06-11-2019, 5:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
I know what to tell them, i frequently defend trophy hunting on this very forum. Problem is they don’t listen.
Well in that case they've now heard from two of us. Anyone else?
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  #54  
Old 06-11-2019, 6:38 AM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
And somebody needs to tell the OP that PITA is the Pacific International Trapshooting Association.

I thought he meant Pain In The *****.

I gave him a pass, because despite the error, it's accurate.
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  #55  
Old 06-11-2019, 2:53 PM
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If guys really put the time in and have the right equipment to shoot 1000 yards on big game. I guess so be it. As long as they are proficient and know their limits. You can't argue the facts, but most guys don't shoot enough or have the right tools to do that. Foe me.. it's a different ball game after 600 yards.
Todays scopes, rifles and MOA claims, I could see what the OP means. Lets hope new guys know better and while at the range let them try too get 3 shot group at or less than MOA at 500 yards. Heck, Ill be generous. lets do 2 moa at 500, thats a 10" plate we alway talk about.
I bet most guys can't get past 300 yards.
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  #56  
Old 06-11-2019, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FishnHunt View Post
If guys really put the time in and have the right equipment to shoot 1000 yards on big game. I guess so be it. As long as they are proficient and know their limits. You can't argue the facts, but most guys don't shoot enough or have the right tools to do that. Foe me.. it's a different ball game after 600 yards.
Todays scopes, rifles and MOA claims, I could see what the OP means. Lets hope new guys know better and while at the range let them try too get 3 shot group at or less than MOA at 500 yards. Heck, Ill be generous. lets do 2 moa at 500, thats a 10" plate we alway talk about.
I bet most guys can't get past 300 yards.
Most ranges are limited to 100 yards and that (and closer) is the only known distances most people ever shoot. Everything outside the range is guess work. Most people but not everybody
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  #57  
Old 06-11-2019, 5:36 PM
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The guys I know that hunt long range are usually shooting bedded elk across a canyon at 500-600. Its not really rocket science, just lots of practice and special built guns. It’s generally because they are surrounded by cows that will bust you if you try to stalk across the meadow. They are not making shots on running animals.
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Old 06-11-2019, 5:39 PM
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Elk are big so longer shots are easier....... A 200 lb Buck at 500 to 600 yards, is a much smaller target that is rarely broadside for a perfect shot set up.
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Old 06-11-2019, 5:40 PM
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https://youtu.be/eIn1G8BeUuc

12 year old kid does it in this video on his first ever elk.
His scope was in MOA not MILs so the shot is almost impossible because MOA isn't used by snipery snipers.
Next he isn't behind the gun right so that triples the difficulty.
All kidding aside if it isn't your cup of tea don't try it.
We have a member here who went 380+ mph at Bonneville and the speed limit here in California is 70 mph. Posters here also skydive and while I will never jump out if a plane I don't worry about those that do either.
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Old 06-11-2019, 9:19 PM
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I shot a duck at over 60yards at wister. Some call it sky busting, i call it duck sniping!

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  #61  
Old 06-12-2019, 5:34 AM
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Can we get on to debating that compound bows are just for bow sniping and only traditional archery gear should be legal for hunting? Save the compound bows for the target range! God damn!
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Old 06-12-2019, 6:22 AM
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Can we get on to debating that compound bows are just for bow sniping and only traditional archery gear should be legal for hunting? Save the compound bows for the target range! God damn!
I think we should go back to rocks and mastodon femurs. Everything else is just a technological crutch for those non-sporting wimps.
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Old 06-12-2019, 9:31 AM
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LOL...this thread is a perfect topic for me while i’m on vacation. Just the right amount of FUD and conspiracy mixed in.

Tastes delicious. 😁
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  #64  
Old 06-12-2019, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCal326 View Post
This isn't exactly accurate. Hunters don't have a consensus on the issue. Many feel that a "fare chase" is the only honorable way to hunt. Long range hunting doesn't qualify as fare chase.

Boone and Crockett Club has been promoting this philosophy for the last 130 years. Its not a movement started yesterday by a guy on CalGuns. It's already in the public domain so open discussion is acceptable. If you want to silence the free exchange of ideas this isn't the place to do it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_chase
Some hunters say hand powered weapons such as bows, knives and spears are the only ethical way to hunt. Ban one thing at a time, that's the way we lose everything.
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  #65  
Old 06-12-2019, 11:21 PM
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Some hunters say hand powered weapons such as bows, knives and spears are the only ethical way to hunt. Ban one thing at a time, that's the way we lose everything.

Didn't the left go nuts over a spear hunter a year or two ago? I think they tried to ban it.
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  #66  
Old 06-13-2019, 9:00 AM
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Didn't the left go nuts over a spear hunter a year or two ago? I think they tried to ban it.
Pretty much.

Bow hunting isn't ethical because it takes too long to kill an animal and they obviously suffer before they die.

Spear hunting isn't ethical because it's just too brutal and the chances of wounding an animal in a one on one confrontation instead of making a good, quick, clean, kill is too high.

Handgun hunting isn't ethical because handguns are underpowered.

Non-magnum rifle hunting isn't ethical because you don't have to get close to your game and give them a sporting chance.

Magnum rifle hunting isn't ethical because it just damages meat and allows you to get further away from your game.

Muzzleloading hunting isn't ethical because the low energies involved with traditional muzzleloaders combined the the round balls used by traditional muzzleloaders don't provide adequate wounding and a quick kill.

Inline muzzleloaders are unethical because they are basically just rifles.

Shotgun hunting is unethical because you don't know where your pellets are going to hit.

So on, and so on, and so on...

Basically for any form of hunting someone will have an issue with it and call it unethical. Some of these people are perfectly alright with commercial slaughterhouses and butcheries, some of them condemn commercial slaughterhouses that use bolt guns to kill their animals and only support halal slaughter (where animals are bled out), and some of them are died in the wool vegans that don't think we should be doing anything with animals.

Whatever, go kill something and eat it (or not if that's your style). Do your best to kill it quickly, don't do anything to get shackled by Mr. Green Jeans, do things to help conservation efforts to promote equitable access to game and public lands.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:16 AM
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Some hunters say hand powered weapons such as bows, knives and spears are the only ethical way to hunt. Ban one thing at a time, that's the way we lose everything.
The Indians aka Native Americans started using horses and guns as soon as they were able to. Why? Hunting while walking and stalking with hand powered weapons sucks. The myth of the noble savage is just that - a myth. Survival was all about the cost benefit ratio of how much energy was expended vs how much food could be harvested. Technology rapidly tilted the odds in their favor to make it so that they could harvest far more food with less energy being expended.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:37 AM
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The Indians aka Native Americans started using horses and guns as soon as they were able to. Why? Hunting while walking and stalking with hand powered weapons sucks. The myth of the noble savage is just that - a myth. Survival was all about the cost benefit ratio of how much energy was expended vs how much food could be harvested. Technology rapidly tilted the odds in their favor to make it so that they could harvest far more food with less energy being expended.
Lighting the prairie on fire and running whole herds off a cliff was a favored method.
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Old 06-13-2019, 6:03 PM
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Fish lives matter.
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Old 06-13-2019, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MissiontoMars View Post
LOL...this thread is a perfect topic for me while i’m on vacation. Just the right amount of FUD and conspiracy mixed in.

Tastes delicious. ��
An idea. Let's put whatever food the animal likes on a hook & line & dangle it in front of them. Like tree stand hunting. Animal nibbles away and quick - yank the line, set the hook. Hop down, whack them on the head. No one minds doing that with fish, catching them and watching them flop around on land gasping for air until clubbed.

Instead of hunting we're "fishing for deer" or "trolling for beaver".

Good enough for Charlie, good enough for Bambi.
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Old 06-13-2019, 8:17 PM
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An idea. Let's put whatever food the animal likes on a hook & line & dangle it in front of them. Like tree stand hunting. Animal nibbles away and quick - yank the line, set the hook. Hop down, whack them on the head. No one minds doing that with fish, catching them and watching them flop around on land gasping for air until clubbed.

Instead of hunting we're "fishing for deer" or "trolling for beaver".

Good enough for Charlie, good enough for Bambi.
Clubbing seals was banned.
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Old 06-13-2019, 8:57 PM
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Clubbing seals was banned.
Seal clubbing still occurs legally.
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Old 06-13-2019, 9:04 PM
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By US companies?
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:00 PM
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By US companies?
Not commercially in the US. Importation of seal products was banned in the US in the 70's or something.

I'm not sure what the regulations are for natives hunting seals in Alaska. In Canada however clubs, guns, and hooks are still allowed.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:13 PM
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Seal clubbing still occurs legally.
Are they hiring? I could use some cardio. My dream job is working on a whale boat.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:31 PM
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Are they hiring? I could use some cardio. My dream job is working on a whale boat.
I think you'll have to be Canadian first.
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Old 06-14-2019, 8:50 AM
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Californian, Canadian, aren't those the same?
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Old 06-14-2019, 9:17 AM
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I would agree with that. My last Wyoming Muley had a tine shot off one horn; a 270 round fit the 1/2 the leftover groove in the horn perfect. Another buddy got what looked to be a nice antelope 300 yard range. When we got up to it we found part of the jaw missing from someone else "missed" shot.

Same trip, saw a guy make a long shot on an antelope that was running, but not fast. Watched it keep running... I found it the next morning. Long shot, running animal, poor tracking and follow-up. Coyotes got it in the end... That one was really a shame; it was a really nice sized animal, both in size and horns.

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I’m sure you know jaws get blown off animals under 300 yards a lot more often then one over 800 yards away.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:34 PM
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LMAO! "trolling for beaver".... Ok.
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Old 06-14-2019, 2:57 PM
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LMAO! "trolling for beaver".... Ok.
I'm glad someone picked up on that -
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