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  #1  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:11 AM
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Default LEOSA ID question

I tried to post this in the sticky but it said I couldnít since the thread was over 90 days old. I have a LEOSA question Iím trying to get answered. Even asked PORAC and they couldnít answer it!

Iím leaving being a peace officer after 20 years, but going to work in another government job that is non sworn. I know LEOSA states the requirement for an armed/retirement ID is a minimum of 10 years of service and that you are separated from the agency. Any of you legal beagles know if my leaving my job but taking another job would still qualify as ďseparatedĒ? I donít want to pay for a CCW for obvious reasons.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:28 AM
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You should check with the department that you are leaving from. There should be a provision for Former Law Enforcement Officer identification. You are not retiring but leaving service.
There are some restrictions and requirements.
In most you must have aggregate of 10 years of service.

Look under the following US statue: 18 USC 926. You could fall under section A, B, C and sub paragraphs.

You should do the research to see which one apply to you..


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Old 10-10-2018, 11:27 AM
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If you are a retired and separsted LEO, it doesn't matter who you work for again, public or private, unless it's another law enforcement agency in which case you don't have to worry about LEOSA.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:37 AM
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Thanks guys, I have my documents and will make an attempt with my chief.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:52 AM
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The issue you may run into is that the penal code uses the term honorably retired for the exemption to carry concealed. Just changing jobs to a non-sworn position may nullify the honorably retired part since you aren't really retiring. I don't know for sure or have anything to point to for that, just throwing it out there.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
The issue you may run into is that the penal code uses the term honorably retired for the exemption to carry concealed. Just changing jobs to a non-sworn position may nullify the honorably retired part since you aren't really retiring. I don't know for sure or have anything to point to for that, just throwing it out there.
The code says you have to be honorably separated and not have left in lieu of any kind of investigation or disciplinary action. It's not that deal at all, just got a better offer.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:05 PM
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The issue you may run into is that the penal code uses the term honorably retired for the exemption to carry concealed. Just changing jobs to a non-sworn position may nullify the honorably retired part since you aren't really retiring. I don't know for sure or have anything to point to for that, just throwing it out there.

Hororably just means you weren't fired or dishonorably discharged like in the military.

Doesn't matter if your new job is unsworn. That's irrelevant to this provision of LEOSA.
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Old 10-10-2018, 1:26 PM
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Sounds like you're good to go. Just make sure your department issues you a LEOSA type ID and you've qualified on firearms within the year. Your LEOSA qual requirement will be annual moving forward.

Would the two agencies fall under the same retirement system? If not, are you eligible for retirement with your current? If so, have you considered formally retiring (with CA retiree carry creds) and taking on the job with the other agency?

Lots of "What abouts" here, but I'm sure you've done your legwork. Lastly, buy all of the pistols that you want now because you'll loose the exemption after separation. Good luck and congrats for making it 20 years.
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Old 10-10-2018, 1:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sgt1372 View Post
Hororably just means you weren't fired or dishonorably discharged like in the military.

Doesn't matter if your new job is unsworn. That's irrelevant to this provision of LEOSA.
LEOSA does not require an agency to issue a credential that allows retired or separated officer's to carry. State law uses the term "honorably retired", if the agency does not consider the person retired, or does not issue credentials to carry when someone leaves for another job, it could be a problem. I guess it all depends on how the agency head feels about someone leaving to take another job outside the field.
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Old 10-10-2018, 3:51 PM
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LEOSA does not require an agency to issue a credential that allows retired or separated officer's to carry. State law uses the term "honorably retired", if the agency does not consider the person retired, or does not issue credentials to carry when someone leaves for another job, it could be a problem. I guess it all depends on how the agency head feels about someone leaving to take another job outside the field.
Disagree. I don't see any problem whatsoever.

I just requalified and got my new dept issued LEOSA card. They don't give a rat's behind whether I work anywhere else or not. Walmart or whatever, it just doesn't matter. Just have to requalify each year to carry. That's it.
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Old 10-10-2018, 4:12 PM
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Disagree. I don't see any problem whatsoever.

I just requalified and got my new dept issued LEOSA card. They don't give a rat's behind whether I work anywhere else or not. Walmart or whatever, it just doesn't matter. Just have to requalify each year to carry. That's it.
What part of LEOSA does not require an agency to issue a credential to carry concealed do you not understand? This isn't about where someone goes to work after they leave, it has to do with will the agency issue an ID to allow them to carry, and LEOSA does not force agency's do to that.

If the agency does not issue an ID to carry for persons who just leave the job, instead of retiring, and I know there are agency's that don't, there is not a damn thing LEOSA is going to do to make it happen.
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Old 10-10-2018, 6:08 PM
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I would guess after 20 sworn years you are vested. So I guess the real question and the maybe qualifier to obtaining an LEOSA ID is....

Are you retiring or resigning?
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Old 10-10-2018, 6:29 PM
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Iím not gonna draw my pension, Iím not 50 yet. Taking a job with another government agency in a non sworn capacity, so not retiring.
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Old 10-10-2018, 6:39 PM
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I don't know the exact content of the LEOSA but there may be a differene in retired or resigned. I believe you can still retire and defer the retirement pay until you reach 50...at least you can on the dept I worked for.
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Old 10-10-2018, 6:40 PM
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Quote:
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What part of LEOSA does not require an agency to issue a credential to carry concealed do you not understand? This isn't about where someone goes to work after they leave, it has to do with will the agency issue an ID to allow them to carry, and LEOSA does not force agency's do to that.

If the agency does not issue an ID to carry for persons who just leave the job, instead of retiring, and I know there are agency's that don't, there is not a damn thing LEOSA is going to do to make it happen.
So if your agency/chief don't want to issue you a LEOSA/Retired credential you are dead in the water? I would seem that if there is documentation of your employment that is what the law requires, not a credential if I understand correctly.
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Old 10-10-2018, 7:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt1372 View Post
Disagree. I don't see any problem whatsoever.

I just requalified and got my new dept issued LEOSA card. They don't give a rat's behind whether I work anywhere else or not. Walmart or whatever, it just doesn't matter. Just have to requalify each year to carry. That's it.
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So if your agency/chief don't want to issue you a LEOSA/Retired credential you are dead in the water? I would seem that if there is documentation of your employment that is what the law requires, not a credential if I understand correctly.
sgt1372,

Here's the problem that you apparently don't see:

1) The OP leaves his peace officer position after 20 years, but does not retire.

2) The LEOSA provides him with coverage after 10 years of service, but one requirement of the LEOSA is that the former officer carry "a photographic identification card identifying as having been employed as a law enforcement officer." The law is clear as to the ID card requirement and does not make provision for other forms of service verification.

3) There is no requirement in the LEOSA that agencies issue such an identification card.

So all that has to happen is for the agency to say "sorry, we don't issue ID cards to former officers." The net effect of such a policy statement is that the OP losses their LEOSA coverage.

It's not an academic point. The first LE agency that I worked for has taken such a position with their medical retirees who do not qualify for service retirement. They collect their retirement pay every month, but the agency does not issue them any form of ID card that would allow them to carry under the LEOSA.
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Old 10-10-2018, 7:34 PM
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What part of LEOSA does not require an agency to issue a credential to carry concealed do you not understand? This isn't about where someone goes to work after they leave, it has to do with will the agency issue an ID to allow them to carry, and LEOSA does not force agency's do to that.

If the agency does not issue an ID to carry for persons who just leave the job, instead of retiring, and I know there are agency's that don't, there is not a damn thing LEOSA is going to do to make it happen.

Well, I think that you think that you think you know more than you do and that what you think matters doesn't matter as much as you think it does.

So, there's no point in belaboring the point further. The OP will discover what if anything matters in his case

EOM. Ciao.
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Old 10-10-2018, 8:00 PM
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Iím not gonna draw my pension, Iím not 50 yet. Taking a job with another government agency in a non sworn capacity, so not retiring.
Since you are vested, look into what their options are as far as retiring and deferring your retirement until 50. I think that is where the it is going to make the difference ...retiring vs resigning.
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Old 10-10-2018, 8:07 PM
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Well, I think that you think that you think you know more than you do and that what you think matters doesn't matter as much as you think it does.

So, there's no point in belaboring the point further. The OP will discover what if anything matters in his case

EOM. Ciao.
Well it's pretty obvious that I know a bit more about than you care to learn.
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Old 10-10-2018, 8:16 PM
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That would be a bummer if the agency refuses to issue LEOSA ID's/Carry Creds. I suppose one recourse is to take the agency to civil recourse much like the recent case of correctional deputies winning their case against their SO.

Sorry, I can't remember which department exactly, but essentially the correctional deputies just needed to complete the 832 firearms portion to meet the remaining LEOSA requirement. Maybe it was probation. Not sure, but I'm gather that one of you folks will have better knowledge.
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Old 10-10-2018, 8:20 PM
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That would be a bummer if the agency refuses to issue LEOSA ID's/Carry Creds. I suppose one recourse is to take the agency to civil recourse much like the recent case of correctional deputies winning their case against their SO.

Sorry, I can't remember which department exactly, but essentially the correctional deputies just needed to complete the 832 firearms portion to meet the remaining LEOSA requirement. Maybe it was probation. Not sure, but I'm gather that one of you folks will have better knowledge.
The problem with the civil litigation route is that a plaintiff would have to show that employer had a duty to issue the cards.

Right now I don't see where that is the case.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:17 AM
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Leaving service is not an issue. That was covered in a 2010 update that eliminated the pension requirement. The requirement is that you separate in -Good Standing-

I was looking for the case law that stated agencies do not have to provide retirement credentials. Can't find it. However, it may have been a legal interpretation I read a while back that said you are SOOL with no recourse. Also, you're not alone. Maybe, you can convince your Chief to stamp your current card "Retired" or make some other concession - 20 years is a long time and you should be rewarded for your service.

5. The department I retired from will not give me retirement credentials, what can I do?

This is a question we are encountering far too frequently, and regrettably there is no clear guidance that can be provided. LEOSA does not bestow either an explicit right to obtain the required identification or a federal remedy for a state agency's failure to issue one. Such refusal is foolish policy but it is a political issue, not a legal one.

See this link:

http://le.nra.org/leosa/frequently-asked-questions.aspx
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Old 10-11-2018, 6:42 AM
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my department has the same issue. if you resign to go to a different job, they will not issue any card. you turn in your LEO ID and that's it. The intent of the law is that anyone over 10 years of service has Leosa coverage.

at the minimum, If your chief refuses to give you some type of service disconnect ID(which probably doesn't exist), then you must try something else.

I would ask for a letter on Dept letterhead from personnel or your immediate supervisor that says this person served as a law enforcement officer in good standing from this date to this date. I would have the letter list your department serial number as well as your drivers license number. If your job allows it, take a picture of your current work ID. laminate that letter and attach a print out of your work I'd and that is what you would carry with you. It technically is not an ID, but demonstrates your time in service and that you had a government issued work ID.

Since your current government issued drivers license number is on the letter, it is a government issued ID that is connected to your service.

This is obviously trying to find a way to convince an officer that stops you that you are covered by Leosa. this may fly or it may not. This may even turn in to a test case, so you take the risk. This is what I would do if I disconnected before retirement.
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Old 10-11-2018, 5:09 PM
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OP, have you checked with PORAC for guidance or an answer?
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:40 AM
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PORAC said they didnít know what I should do and itís not something they typically deal with.
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Old 10-13-2018, 11:43 AM
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Sometimes I think PORAC is worthless.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:56 PM
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For the most part, PORAC is worthless.
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