How to become an FFL (gun dealer) in California

[Swif]

Very nice thread. I was looking into applying for my FFL in Orange County to sell to friends and do transfers for friends. I also know a few cops and was thinking of hooking up with them to sell to.

My plain was to start small and then go on line. The main goal was to get deals on some guns for my self and make a little cash on the side. I was also hoping that this would increase my chance for a CCW.

[LG FIREARMS]

Originally Posted by Swif

Very nice thread. I was looking into applying for my FFL in Orange County to sell to friends and do transfers for friends. I also know a few cops and was thinking of hooking up with them to sell to.

My plain was to start small and then go on line. The main goal was to get deals on some guns for my self and make a little cash on the side. I was also hoping that this would increase my chance for a CCW.

FYI, Cops are the worst people to sell to. They are always looking for a "deal". Trust me, Im one of them.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Originally Posted by LG FIREARMS

FYI, Cops are the worst people to sell to. They are always looking for a "deal". Trust me, Im one of them.

Yes, most cops I talk to freely admit this. Online is also a brutal market as well.

[gdict]

Tenpercent consistently states that the BATFE doesn't care about the other permits and that they will issue you a "useless" FFL. This is so not true.

GET PERMISSION FROM YOUR LOCAL ZONING AUTHORITY FIRST!!!

BATFE will contact them. And if you don't have approval from the zoning folks, BATFE WILL NOT APPROVE YOUR FFL. Period. Yes, Period.

Cheers!

[kemasa]

As tenpercent has said, you do need to contact your local authority first and the BATF WILL issue a useless FFL. The BATF is not going to completely track down whether you can get everything or not. You have no idea of what response would come back. In some areas the BATF might contact the local authority and the response will be no, but that is not the case for everywhere.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Originally Posted by gdict

Tenpercent consistently states that the BATFE doesn't care about the other permits and that they will issue you a "useless" FFL. This is so not true.

I have heard of it happening. Maybe they changed their procedures. I am checking up on this story right now.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Originally Posted by gdict

Tenpercent consistently states that the BATFE doesn't care about the other permits and that they will issue you a "useless" FFL. This is so not true.

GET PERMISSION FROM YOUR LOCAL ZONING AUTHORITY FIRST!!!

BATFE will contact them. And if you don't have approval from the zoning folks, BATFE WILL NOT APPROVE YOUR FFL. Period. Yes, Period.

Cheers!

About 5 years ago the BATFE changed their procedures and they now check ony our local licensing before issuing an FFL. So they will not issue you a completely dead license. They will however still take your $200 if you don't do all of your research ahead of time and then tell you they aren't giving you an FFL. So the same outcomes are still in place. Check local licensing first before wasting $200.

[Kingpin.SC]

Quick question:

I started a business laser-engraving firearms, and I would like to make life easier for my customers by giving them the option to drop their firearms off with me, rather than wait around for them to get done. I already have a DBA, and don't plan to operate out of a commercial storefront.

In my city, I am not required to have a business licence for laser-engraving or gunsmithing. I do not plan to sell any firearms; I only want to work on them.

As far as I know, I need an 07 FFL to do this. I've optained the Form 7 packet from the BATFE, and have it mostly filled out. I am just trying to figure out exactly what needs to be done before sending it in.

I have spoken to the BATFE, and it is so backwards over there, that the story changes with each person that I speak with.

I was told by one gentleman, that I won't need a business license, as long as I get something in writing that states that I don't need one for gunsmithing. He didn't mention who I would/should get this document from, but he assured me that this was "OK" with the BAFTE, and that my FFL could definitely be issued without a business licence.

Then, I called to as a separate question, and I was informed by a woman that I would need a business license to possess an FFL, so I could be recorded in some state-wide database. She said that the guy that I had spoken with before was wrong. When I mentioned that it was strictly gunsmithing, and there would be no sales, she said it didn't matter.

These were both "Agents" of the BATFE. Who was right? I am extremely confused as to what to do at this point.

Could anyone shine some light on my situation?

[tenpercentfirearms]

I do believe you can be on a non-selling centralized list. Someone around here educated me on that. Call the CA DOJ as they would probably be the ones to talk to.

[Santa Cruz Armory]

Originally Posted by GunsAndAmmoGirl

BLFD1,

I had my BATF visit about 3 weeks ago, no big deal. The inspector stayed for about 1 1/2 hours, asked a few basic questions, went through a checklist, showed me some forms, went over the A&D book in detail, then went on her way. It was not threatening in any manner.

Now, the first thing I did before sending the ATF money, I got the zoning/planning department to approve my pending store address for retail sales of firearms. Once done with that, I sent in my federal application. While waiting (about 2 1/2 months for the initial visit) I got my COE and state resale permit.

When the BATF visited, she wanted to see the approval from the zoning/planning.

Two weeks later, I got my FFL 01 in the mail, went back to the city and got my business license (along with providing them my FFL, COE, and resale permit).

Next step, sent my FFL, COE, resale permit, and business license to the State to get my CFD. They should be here within 30 days for an initial license.

After that, CFLC in order to purchase firearms and get them shipped to me.

YES, a lot of hoops to jump through, lots of paperwork and time investment!

It was 6 weeks this past Monday since I've had my interview. Does it normally take this long to receive the license??

[LG FIREARMS]

Originally Posted by BLFD1

It was 6 weeks this past Monday since I've had my interview. Does it normally take this long to receive the license??

Yes. It is not un-heard of. I called the atf processing center and had the lady fax me out a copy of it. (Would provide name /number but at 6am pst I can't think.)

A week later the original showed up. Keep on them. It took 6 months from the date I mailed the application.

[LG FIREARMS]

Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms

About 5 years ago the BATFE changed their procedures and they now check ony our local licensing before issuing an FFL. So they will not issue you a completely dead license. They will however still take your $200 if you don't do all of your research ahead of time and then tell you they aren't giving you an FFL. So the same outcomes are still in place. Check local licensing first before wasting $200.

+1^

Atf wouldnt "sign off" on application until I tracked down someone from the city planning department and provided the agent with a name/phone number.

We did ours backwards as this was the last thing we needed to open. Thankfully the city said, "ok".

[ctak619]

Thanks for the great FFL info. Wow, I learned alot

[mcisniper]

I'm in Chula Vista, CA (San Diego County) and have spoken with CVPD and planning, they both gave the go ahead to operate out of the house. So, tomorrow I deal with the city on the business permit and drop off my Police Controlled License Application. The city stated if the PD had no issue they did not have an issue. Time to test what I was told on the phone. Then off to the state and start shopping for a safe.

Any Advice?

Thanks,
Michael

[david619]

Just curious as to how many recent FFL Dealers have become successful? They say 9 out of 10 restaurant start up companies fail. It seems like the internet is a brutal market to compete. Besides being able to purchase wholesale and sell to friends and family, I would like to hear of any recent firearms dealers who actually make a nice living, especially in San Diego since there seems to be plenty of storefront dealers around. Thanks.

[gdict]

I've been open for three months and things are going great. I have over 100 guns in stock and lots of ammo and accessories. Granted I had pretty good financial support and a longstanding reputation in the industry. Everything looks good though. I believe there is still money to be made in this industry, you just need to have a good plan.

Cheers!

[david619]

Originally Posted by gdict

I've been open for three months and things are going great. I have over 100 guns in stock and lots of ammo and accessories. Granted I had pretty good financial support and a longstanding reputation in the industry. Everything looks good though. I believe there is still money to be made in this industry, you just need to have a good plan.

Cheers!

Good to hear. Hope it keeps going well.

[F8ality]

First off let me say thanks to all of you who have added anything to this thread. Possibly one of the best I've read. Anyways, so if my main purpose is to do transfers/build AR's/sell & demo to LE and mil I would need an 07 and an SOT, correct? Which do I apply for first what's the best way to do it and can an SOT do business out their home like an FFL can?

[eletrickill]

not to thread jack but,.... Does anyone know if/how you can see dealer prices on firearms from manufactures before you aquire ffl07, centralized list? for example... i can buy from the rockriver website as a consumer.... lar-15 tactical operator 2 for $1000. Is there a way to see what an 07ffl could purchase that same rifle for...Intended for resale of course.....

This is just one example but, ive spent a good 30 minutes researching and i cannot find anything on dealer prices... trying to gage margins... IE. business plan

Thankyou to all in advance.

[efillc]

Originally Posted by eletrickill

not to thread jack but,.... Does anyone know if/how you can see dealer prices on firearms from manufactures before you aquire ffl07, centralized list?

There is no fixed distributor price list. Dealer prices vary widely depending on how much they purchase annually. As an example, there are online stores (e.g. Bud's) selling guns for retail for less than I would pay a distributor.

ETA: There is almost no markup in a new gun. Typically for a retailer guns bring people into the shop, but sales of accessories and optics pay the bills.

[parb]

This is an interesting topic to me. To make a business plan its important to know the distribution pricing and volume comittments to get additional discounts. I'm sure that the distributors have formalized partner programs. Anyone know who the major distributors are and how i can get in touch with one. I've been considering setting up a small shop selling firearms to the public but to know if a business is possible i'd like to be able to calculate margins.

i for one fully understand the dealers who charge a service fee for DROS'ing from an internet dealer. the internet is essentially killing their business -why would a brick and mortar store willingly want to aid someone who over the long haul will get them out of business (i can understand supporting an internet retailer for brands/models which a brick and mortar doesnt carry).

The local gun stores are funny to me. they do essentially nothing for loyalty programs or sales incentives to loyal customers. i would make sure that i offered additional services at discounted rates to customers who purchase in-store to get additional post sales business. this is the only way that the car dealers and book sellers survive the onslaught of internet based pricing. gun stores seems to ripe for upgraded business models vs what i see today.

my few cents...

[jgraham7897]

My brother and I are looking at the possibility of opening a Gun Shop. Can both of our names be on the FFL or do we both need one?

[Breadfan]

tag

[tenpercentfirearms]

Originally Posted by jgraham7897

My brother and I are looking at the possibility of opening a Gun Shop. Can both of our names be on the FFL or do we both need one?

You can have a partnership with both names on the FFL. You would both need COEs and you would both need to be on the CFD.

We used to be a partnership before we incorporated.

[h0use]

i had a quick question. i want to apply for a ffl type 2 for gunsmithing only. can some one give me the steps for this. i see i have to send in photos. do the photos go to the police as well? do i just mail them leo copy to them or do i have to personly go there and turn it in? I plan on running my gunsmithing out of my home.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by h0use

i had a quick question. i want to apply for a ffl type 2 for gunsmithing only..

AFAIK, there isn't a "gunsmithing only FFL" anymore. There used to be, but they consolidated it with the standard 01FFL for dealers. 02FFL is for pawnbrokers.

[yasehiso]

Has anyone tried to get a business license " valid for firearms sales" in Redwood city? ( San Mateo County)
If so, is it done by chief of police or business office? Applying for my FFL 07

[bebe67]

All business licenses are done by city hall and in some municipalities the chief has some say but check your municipal code for zoning and such.

[yasehiso]

Thanks bebe67, I'll check with city hall first.

[yasehiso]

Has anyone tried the process through redwood city?"valid for firearms sales" business license. I notice there is no gun shop here, so I wonder if it's because of the difficulties of acquiring one here in redwood.

[Targets From Us]

hoping to get manufacture,gunsmith,and ammo manufacture FFls soon anything to add to above?

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by Targets From Us

hoping to get manufacture,gunsmith,and ammo manufacture FFls soon anything to add to above?

are you actually looking to get an 01FFL (dealer,gunsmith), 06FFL (ammo manufacturer), and 07FFL(manufacturer). If so, why not just get the 07FFL which covers all of it in one FFL?

[Targets From Us]

Well that helps. I thought you had to get one from each. So 07 is all we need. We plan on making some gun parts as well as offer refinishing services. We also plan to make some firearms once our CNC mill comes in.

Plus we would like to make ammo as well.

[ke6guj]

07FFL will let you do everything you mention.

wikipedia breaks it down nicely, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License

[Targets From Us]

Thanks a lot

[TonyNorCal]

Great thread.

Is there a best way to word what your business does on an application? Are there ways to word the application which minimize any potential negative connotations (for a potential liberal reader)?

Also, what do you make of this restriction:

Items offered for sale shall be limited to those produced on the premises, except where the person conducting the home occupation serves as an agent or intermediary between off-site suppliers and off-site customers in which case all articles, except for samples, shall be received, stored and sold directly to customers at off premises locations."

The part I am a little unclear on is the very last sentence, specifically the 'sold to customers at off-premise locations'?

[panchovillas]

ATF received and processed my 07 application and soon will have a meeting with industry agent. I also received a letter from state board sellers permit asking if I am selling tires!!!LOL

[yasehiso]

Originally Posted by panchovillas

ATF received and processed my 07 application and soon will have a meeting with industry agent. I also received a letter from state board sellers permit asking if I am selling tires!!!LOL

What city did you get your ffl in?
And, what's you next step?

[panchovillas]

Parlier and interview with industry agent everything else is done!!

[F8ality]

Some local highway patrols are telling me that you can no longer get an ffl for a home business?? Any truth to this because I finally have all of the business paperwork done and will be turning it in this week.

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