When CA FFLs should collect SALES TAX from consumers.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by foxtrotuniformlima

Not C&R -

Should I have the seller include a invoice of sorts to calculate the tax ?

If possible - check with your FFL though. I sometimes just use the gunbroker auction number to calculate if the shipper doesn't include an invoice/bill of sale.

Your FFL may/may not accept what the seller provides and require to see a gunbroker ad or the for sale ad or something similar..

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by foxtrotuniformlima

Not C&R -

Should I have the seller include a invoice of sorts to calculate the tax ?

It should be a real receipt with the total cost, including shipping. Anything else could be considered tax evasion.

[BeAuMaN]

Hello,

I saw this option to request the original opinions that the annotations are based off of mentioned here: https://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/annotations/menu.htm

So I did a request on 495.0843 and 495.0848. Received a nice response back within less than 7 days.

495.0843 is still hosted on their website, while 0848 is not: https://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/annotat...f/495.0843.pdf

Since I don't see the original opinion letters posted here, I've gone ahead and attached them to my post. This doesn't change anything naturally, but thought I would add it for people looking into this later.

Also these annotations have a 30 day public comment period after being posted, and you can get notifications here when they're posted: https://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/cld/index.htm

[seabee1]

So.....Say I find a used firearm here on Calguns, and the seller, private party, is out of state. do I or do I not have to pay sales tax? If my FFL does not collect, who gets punished? figured I'd just ask the questions again, rather than comb through 5 pages of legal analysis. It appeared at page 1 (2010) that the answer was no, tax was not due. but then i went further and it looked like it was, then wasn't, then was...

[halifax]

The BOE's current interpretation says the CA FFL that receives the firearm is the retailer and is responsible for paying the sales tax. He will probably collect it from you.

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by seabee1

So.....Say I find a used firearm here on Calguns, and the seller, private party, is out of state. do I or do I not have to pay sales tax? If my FFL does not collect, who gets punished? figured I'd just ask the questions again, rather than comb through 5 pages of legal analysis. It appeared at page 1 (2010) that the answer was no, tax was not due. but then i went further and it looked like it was, then wasn't, then was...

The CA FFL is required to submit the sales tax to the CA BOE. Generally this means that the FFL collects the money from the buyer. The FFL is not required to get the money from the buyer, but it is the only business reasonable thing to do. The FFL would be subject to interest and penalties. As far as I know, the buyer would not be subject to anything. There is a requirement that you pay sales tax from out of state on your state income tax return, but in terms of a firearm, you are considered to be buying it from a CA retailer, the FFL.

The view of the CA BOE changed, which is why in 2009 the answer was one way and now it is another.

[97F1504RAD]

So I have a question. I have always paid the use/sales tax on my purchases but it has always just been on the purchase price of the firearm. However, I recently started using a new FFL & they are also charging me tax on the shipping charges. Is this correct?

And can someone link me to something if the tax does not apply to shipping charges.

And I know this has been talked about a million times but what is a FFL allowed to charge for DROS? I know the fee is 25.00 and then 35.00 for PPT but on a standard FFL to FFL can they charge more? And I am not including the fee for the transfer. I am strictly referring to DROS FEE and they are charging me more than the 25.00 and tax on DROS FEE.

I really like this FFL and would just like to know for sure. They seem adamanet that they can charge what they are.

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by 97F1504RAD

So I have a question. I have always paid the use/sales tax on my purchases but it has always just been on the purchase price of the firearm. However, I recently started using a new FFL & they are also charging me tax on the shipping charges. Is this correct?

That is correct. Only if the item is shipped directly to you would the shipping not be subject to sales tax.

And can someone link me to something if the tax does not apply to shipping charges.

N/A.

And I know this has been talked about a million times but what is a FFL allowed to charge for DROS? I know the fee is 25.00 and then 35.00 for PPT but on a standard FFL to FFL can they charge more? And I am not including the fee for the transfer. I am strictly referring to DROS FEE and they are charging me more than the 25.00 and tax on DROS FEE.

The DROS fee is $25. It is illegal to represent it as anything else.

A CA PPT is $25 for the DROS and $10 for the FFL. There is no sales tax on the DROS fee. Storage fee can be charged after the 10 day waiting period. Nothing more can be charged.

A normal transfer the FFL can change anything they want. The FFL fee is subject to sales tax if the firearm is subject to sales tax.

I really like this FFL and would just like to know for sure. They seem adamanet that they can charge what they are.

If they are charging sales tax on the DROS, they are wrong. If they are mis-representing what the DROS fee is, they are wrong. They are correct in charging sales tax on the shipping, unfortunately.

[97F1504RAD]

Originally Posted by kemasa

That is correct. Only if the item is shipped directly to you would the shipping not be subject to sales tax.



N/A.



The DROS fee is $25. It is illegal to represent it as anything else.

A CA PPT is $25 for the DROS and $10 for the FFL. There is no sales tax on the DROS fee. Storage fee can be charged after the 10 day waiting period. Nothing more can be charged.

A normal transfer the FFL can change anything they want. The FFL fee is subject to sales tax if the firearm is subject to sales tax.



If they are charging sales tax on the DROS, they are wrong. If they are mis-representing what the DROS fee is, they are wrong. They are correct in charging sales tax on the shipping, unfortunately.

Perfect, that is how I thought I understood it but wanted to make sure before I said anything.

Here is a copy of my recepit the way they have this listed is incorrect then?



Thank You

[kemasa]

If you look at CA Sales Tax Firearms Information 495.0843 & 495.0848 at the very end of each, there is a note that the DOJ fee (DROS) is no longer subject to sales tax effective 01-Jan-1999 (yes, it has been a while).

[97F1504RAD]

bump with picture

[Gowking]

If the transfer was only for the one firearm that you ordered online and had shipped to the dealer then what the hell is that extra $10 DROS transfer fee?

I'd look for another shop preferably one that doesn't add on any extra fee that in reality is just padding for their transfer fee.

[97F1504RAD]

That was my point but even with that fee they are the cheapest in my area. They even charge that If I buy the Firearm from them.

Most charge 100.00 or more and the guy I use to use was only 25.00 Transfer Fee but he finally had enough and closed shop and left the state.

They also charge tax on that 10.00

And the 722.99 was the cost of firearm plus shipping. Firearm was only 715.00 That doesnt bother me as much as the extra 10.00 "DROS FEE 2"

[halifax]

That extra $10 is a fee imposed by the dealer not the state. Therefore it is taxable. Only the "real" $25 DROS fee is not.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by halifax

That extra $10 is a fee imposed by the dealer not the state. Therefore it is taxable. Only the "real" $25 DROS fee is not.

They are mis-representing the fee though. They shouldn't even have the word DROS on it... they should call it what it is "dealer handling fee" or "dealer don't want you to think this is part of the transfer fee"

[Svashtar]

Hi guys, first post on Calguns, and first time using Tapatalk app, so high likelihood I'll screw this up or post in the wrong place, but here goes:

I always try to support my local FFL, but he wanted a more than $200 more for a Savage than I could get it for online. So, bought it online, and understand I'm responsible for sales tax on the gun price, and sales tax on the shipping, no problem.

Dealer wants $125 to receive the rifle, plus the DROS; a bit high I think, but again no problem.

But then he calculates the total sales tax by adding in the cost of the rifle, (I freely supplied my Internet order paperwork showing price paid), shipping, plus DROS and his transfer fee; sales tax on that grand total. I don't think I should pay tax on the last two. What tangible item or "use" am I getting for his labor/service in transferring the rifle?

I can't expect a small brick and mortar outfit to compete with an online retailer with thousands of guns in inventory, and don't mind paying him to handle the transfer, but that last $14 (on the $25 DROS and his $125 paperwork fee) really bugs me for some reason. (Maybe I'm just a cheap $@b, who knows!?). ;-)

I've read the law, and the sales tax on the rifle and shipping is clearly mandated on the out of state retail sale, but the rest just bugs.

In any case, he's clearly a bit upset with me for buying online for the first time, and spent quite a bit of time telling me how despite their claims, this retailers guns aren't new, but blems or seconds or used guns marked as new, which is the only reason they can beat his price, and that I'm risking getting a junk gun, etc., etc.

Guess we'll see because I already ordered it, now have to get the FFL to contact the retailer to get it shipped.

Thanks for any info!


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[kemasa]

The DROS is not subject to sales tax, but the FFL fee is. If you have an issue with that, remember that when you vote for the BOE representative who does not really represent you, so think about getting reasonable people to run.

[Svashtar]

?? Interesting; so the FFL charges me for a service, which he collects as store revenue, and pays taxes to the State on that service, then has me pay a second time for taxes on the same service?? Since when is labor ever taxable? I know for a fact in other states the (typically $20-$30) transfer fee isn't taxable; it's a service fee.

And I appreciate the advice on the "BOE representation", but I've never seen that position on a ballot I don't think so not quite sure how I would do that, or even what you're talking about. Is that Board of Equalization? Ok, I wouldn't vote for someone that didn't adequately represent me in any case, so don't understand that part of your point either. And how do you determine who is "reasonable" and "get" them to run? And once in, they'll have the power to undo this gibberish? Hmm. I agree with you in principle, but that is far easier thrown out there than done, especially after the rule and the revenue is already in place.

BTW, I've worked on three election campaigns in California, contributing considerable time and $, and have come to the conclusion that it's futile for the most part; the best we can do is to push back on some small fronts. Freedom loving Californians are outnumbered 3 to 1 by the leftist majority, so we always have to work harder for less.

Was just trying to understand how this can be the one case where a tax can be put on a service, but then, I'm probably applying logic to it, which is a mistake. :-). However I'll let them know on the DROS.

Thanks.


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[Svashtar]

BTW, know this isn't up to the dealer, not putting any of this on him, but the State getting their sticky fingers into the mix. Things have definitely changed; my Dad had an FFL for many years, and I think it was $30-something for three years.

Of course, that's back when all the PD's carried wheelguns, and he used to buy Pythons wholesale for $137 each, so that was a while back... !

Thanks again for the info.




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[kemasa]

Originally Posted by Svashtar

?? Interesting; so the FFL charges me for a service, which he collects as store revenue, and pays taxes to the State on that service, then has me pay a second time for taxes on the same service?? Since when is labor ever taxable? I know for a fact in other states the (typically $20-$30) transfer fee isn't taxable; it's a service fee.

CA Sales Tax Firearms Information 495.0843 & 495.0848

A business pays income tax, but you are not paying a second time.

There is various cases where there is sales tax on labor. Welcome to CA.

Each state is different and the law and rules in each state is different.

And I appreciate the advice on the "BOE representation", but I've never seen that position on a ballot I don't think so not quite sure how I would do that, or even what you're talking about. Is that Board of Equalization? Ok, I wouldn't vote for someone that didn't adequately represent me in any case, so don't understand that part of your point either. And how do you determine who is "reasonable" and "get" them to run? And once in, they'll have the power to undo this gibberish? Hmm. I agree with you in principle, but that is far easier thrown out there than done, especially after the rule and the revenue is already in place.

I am sorry that you have not paid attention to the ballot.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/members/board.htm

If you had been paying attention, you might have noticed that the BOE changed their view on firearms purchased from out of state private parties and now, with limited exceptions, it is subject to sales tax, whereas before it wasn't. Things can change.

The CA BOE board answers only to the voters at election time.

https://uselections.com/ca/ca.htm

BTW, I've worked on three election campaigns in California, contributing considerable time and $, and have come to the conclusion that it's futile for the most part; the best we can do is to push back on some small fronts. Freedom loving Californians are outnumbered 3 to 1 by the leftist majority, so we always have to work harder for less.

The BOE is more of an unknown position, so politics does not come into play as much and as you have shown, many people just don't pay attention.

Was just trying to understand how this can be the one case where a tax can be put on a service, but then, I'm probably applying logic to it, which is a mistake. :-). However I'll let them know on the DROS.

Talk to the CA BOE about it.

Originally Posted by Svashtar

BTW, know this isn't up to the dealer, not putting any of this on him, but the State getting their sticky fingers into the mix. Things have definitely changed; my Dad had an FFL for many years, and I think it was $30-something for three years.

The FFL is just one of many expenses. There are state and local business licenses and permits.

Look at what the state wants to do, increase gas taxes, add a service tax on hair and nail places, etc.

Of course, that's back when all the PD's carried wheelguns, and he used to buy Pythons wholesale for $137 each, so that was a while back... !

Thanks again for the info.

For many years FFLs were not aware that they were supposed to submit sales tax for firearms purchased from out of state businesses, until they got audited, then it got real expensive.

[Svashtar]

Thanks for the info; the State BOE is one of those offices I do recall seeing on many ballots, but you're right I just phoned it in and never paid them much attention, focusing on the higher profile offices instead (looking for NRA supported candidates). I wouldn't know how to fix this one, and "getting" someone to run that could help with this is wishful thinking unless there was a significant movement to get them in. A grass roots effort by gun owners to get a pro-freedom candidate elected. Again, it's 3 to 1 here and months of effort can be undone by a single liberal enclave of voters in one part of the state.

Trouble is, once ANY tax is in the mix it's almost impossible to get the bureaucracy to back out of it; someone is counting on that revenue forever now.


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[kemasa]

If pro-gun people could get a person to run in each district and then let others know, there is a chance to make a change. From what I can tell, the BOE Board answers to no one, so with a majority, then it can be changed.

The board makes up the rules, so the board can change it, but as you know, no one thinks about it.

[Svashtar]

Originally Posted by kemasa

CA Sales Tax Firearms Information 495.0843 & 495.0848



<snip>

I am sorry that you have not paid attention to the ballot.

Not exactly accurate, I've paid very close attention to the ballot, but until you mentioned it I had no idea the BOE had anything to do with this aspect of the law; should have put it together, but it is fairly obscure. For this office I usually just look for the party candidate. For the main offices I'll usually go with the NRA.

<snip>

For many years FFLs were not aware that they were supposed to submit sales tax for firearms purchased from out of state businesses, until they got audited, then it got real expensive.

In researching today it looks like years ago most FFL's didn't collect the tax, but by law left it to the buyer to declare it on his income on a specific form. There was a procedure for that, and of course no one followed it.

Washington state arguably lost even more revenue with people traveling to Oregon to buy not only guns, but big ticket items like cars, boats and RV's. They've since plugged that hole I think, just like CA is doing here with online gun sales.

I still don't get the tax on the fee though as it isn't real property. Hard to understand that one. That's like paying tax on a car wash, or a trigger job, but I'm sure all that's in our future as the state looks for more income!


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[kemasa]

Originally Posted by Svashtar

Not exactly accurate, I've paid very close attention to the ballot, but until you mentioned it I had no idea the BOE had anything to do with this aspect of the law; should have put it together, but it is fairly obscure. For this office I usually just look for the party candidate. For the main offices I'll usually go with the NRA.

There is no party with respect to the BOE. Semantics, you say that you paid close attention, but did not pay attention to that specific office, which means ...

Most people don't and there is nothing wrong with admitting that you did not pay attention to it, as you say, you did not know what it meant.

In researching today it looks like years ago most FFL's didn't collect the tax, but by law left it to the buyer to declare it on his income on a specific form. There was a procedure for that, and of course no one followed it.

Many FFLs did not collect it as they claimed that they were not aware of it. It is not easy to know what all the laws are. They should have been aware of it. FFLs who did as required often were accused of pocketing the money, but the worst thing that you can do is to collect sales tax and not pay it.

While there is a means on the income tax to pay sales tax, it does not apply to firearms since CA considers the CA FFL to be the retailer unless the out of state seller has a presence in CA, in which case the seller would be responsible for paying all of the sales tax, including on the CA FFL's transfer fee even if they don't know what it is. You can't go to the local store and tell them that you will pay the sales tax on your income tax form, it just don't work that way.

Washington state arguably lost even more revenue with people traveling to Oregon to buy not only guns, but big ticket items like cars, boats and RV's. They've since plugged that hole I think, just like CA is doing here with online gun sales.

Realize that the requirement for the CA retailer to pay the sales tax is prior to 1999 (which is the date mentioned when it no longer applied to the DROS).

Things that are registered are hard to avoid paying the tax on, unless they don't pay attention when you go to register it. CA gets it through the DMV.

I still don't get the tax on the fee though as it isn't real property. Hard to understand that one. That's like paying tax on a car wash, or a trigger job, but I'm sure all that's in our future as the state looks for more income!

I think it is claiming that it is because of the property being transferred. The CA BOE uses strange excuses, such as the change in view when buying from an out of state private party because Federal law requires it to go through a CA FFL. There is nothing in the law about that, but there is also nothing that can be done unless you get other people elected.

[Svashtar]

Thanks, appreciate the reply and background info on the law.

I have since followed up with an old dealer friend of mine on this, and he told me he's even printed up and laminated cards outlining his FFL fee, the DROS, and the sales taxes he has to collect, because so many people (like me) didn't understand it, or worse, accused him of pocketing the sales tax he has to collect on the firearm/FFL!

Seems like the regulations and changes on them never end...

Thanks again.


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[kemasa]

Here are some "interesting" links regarding sales tax and when/what rate to charge based on where you are and where an item is shipped to.

http://www.salestaxinstitute.com/Sal...lect_sales_tax

When making a sale, do you collect tax for the state that you are located in or the state where the customer is located?

You collect the tax for the state where the property is delivered to your customer. If the item is shipped to the customer, then tax applies for the delivery state. You should collect the tax only if you are registered to collect tax in that state. If the customer picks up the item at your location, tax should be collected for your state.

These are a bit too long to include everything, but the second link shows what a mess CA is:


https://blog.taxjar.com/use-billing-...ing-sales-tax/

Should you use billing address or shipping address when calculating sales tax?
...
Origin vs. Destination Based Sales Tax
...
Shipping Address vs. Billing Address: Which is Correct?
...
Billing and Shipping Addresses in Different States

https://blog.taxjar.com/charging-sales-tax-rates/

Origin-based and Destination-based Sales Tax Collection 101
...
California is unique. It’s a modified origin state where state, county and city taxes are based on the origin, but district taxes are based on the destination (the buyer).
...

[eltee]

How to "show your work" when submitting BOE returns.

Still confused. I collect taxes as required and document the price of the firearm and additional costs subject to tax (shipping, etc.). Not sure how best to fill out the return for transfers only.

Let's say I collected $5,000.00 total in taxes for just out of state transfers. I did not sell the gun and made no profit from the sale. For this example, I collected $2,000.00 total in charges for processing the DROS's.

How best to fill out the form so it makes sense? I don't want the $5k in collected taxes to appear as if I made $50,000.00 in sales.

Any info appreciated.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by eltee

How to "show your work" when submitting BOE returns.

Still confused. I collect taxes as required and document the price of the firearm and additional costs subject to tax (shipping, etc.). Not sure how best to fill out the return for transfers only.

Let's say I collected $5,000.00 total in taxes for just out of state transfers. I did not sell the gun and made no profit from the sale. For this example, I collected $2,000.00 total in charges for processing the DROS's.

How best to fill out the form so it makes sense? I don't want the $5k in collected taxes to appear as if I made $50,000.00 in sales.

Any info appreciated.

My returns look exactly like you said. They figure it out during an IRS audit why the rest of my returns looked weird. There may be other ways to do it, but this isn't "wrong" either. They can reconcile it during an audit if they care. I'm guessing I have some kind of note on my account now so they don't keep auditing to see that weirdness..

Keep in mind if you take CCs they are already getting copies of those forms which will show some of the weird math (assuming you're using them to collect transfer fees/sales.

If you don't have an accountant or someone doing your books might be worth it to find out how they think best to handle. If they represent you during an audit you want to be sure they know exactly the method you are doing.

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by eltee

How to "show your work" when submitting BOE returns.

Still confused. I collect taxes as required and document the price of the firearm and additional costs subject to tax (shipping, etc.). Not sure how best to fill out the return for transfers only.

Let's say I collected $5,000.00 total in taxes for just out of state transfers. I did not sell the gun and made no profit from the sale. For this example, I collected $2,000.00 total in charges for processing the DROS's.

How best to fill out the form so it makes sense? I don't want the $5k in collected taxes to appear as if I made $50,000.00 in sales.

Any info appreciated.

The bottom line is that your CA BOE sales tax return is bogus since it claims sales that you did not make. It is just the way it is. You correctly fill out your income tax return. If there are any questions you point out the stupidity with the sales tax return.

[hartek451]

Ok, so I have read this entire thread.. no answers.

In the past, I have always paid the sales tax to my FFL dealer for out of state retail purchases, and have no problem doing so. He quit the biz last year, so I found another dealer in my area.

He does not collect sales tax. Instead, he has me sign a waiver/release type thing while doing DROS, stating that yep, I know I owe sales tax on this and I am responsible for paying it.

Anyone else doing this? I have been trying to figure out exactly how I go about paying my use tax as I want to do it now, not all at end of year.. I could just pay it like any other online out of state purchase, but that doesn't seem right. I can't find how the DOJ and BOE would link the transfer and taxes..

Also, is my FFL dealer in jeopardy for this? there is nothing in the law about this.. so if he got audited, would he be U.S. Creek?

tnx..

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by hartek451

Ok, so I have read this entire thread.. no answers.

In the past, I have always paid the sales tax to my FFL dealer for out of state retail purchases, and have no problem doing so. He quit the biz last year, so I found anther dealer in my area.

He does not collect sales tax. Instead, he has me sign a waiver/release type thing while doing DROS, stating that yep, I know I owe sales tax on this and I am responsible for paying it.

Anyone else doing this? I have been trying to figure out exactly how I go about paying my use tax as I want to do it now, not all at end of year.. I could just pay it like any other online out of state purchase, but that doesn't seem right. I can't find how the DOJ and BOE would link the transfer and taxes..

Also, is my FFL dealer in jeopardy for this? there is nothing in the law about this.. so if he got audited, would he be U.S. Creek?

tnx..

Bolded - yes, there is no exception in the BOE code that says we can sign a letter making the customer responsible for it. He won't know what hit him until his first audit and then it'll be all bad for him with penalties and back payments.

[kemasa]

In addition to what ugimports said:

Originally Posted by hartek451

Ok, so I have read this entire thread.. no answers.

There is actually answers, the FFL is responsible for it PERIOD.

In the past, I have always paid the sales tax to my FFL dealer for out of state retail purchases, and have no problem doing so. He quit the biz last year, so I found anther dealer in my area.

Yep, that is the way it is required to be.

He does not collect sales tax. Instead, he has me sign a waiver/release type thing while doing DROS, stating that yep, I know I owe sales tax on this and I am responsible for paying it.

Not worth the paper that it is written on. I suspect that a CA BOE auditor would just laugh.

Anyone else doing this? I have been trying to figure out exactly how I go about paying my use tax as I want to do it now, not all at end of year.. I could just pay it like any other online out of state purchase, but that doesn't seem right. I can't find how the DOJ and BOE would link the transfer and taxes..

I don't doubt that other do it, just like people violating the law by speeding on the freeway, except this is a bit more serious. You are asking people to admit to violating the law. Do you work for the CA BOE?

There really isn't any way to pay it right now. You could get a resale permit and then be able to pay it, but if you don't have a business, then it could be an issue.

I am not sure of what you are saying in regards to pay it like any other online out of state purchase since there is no means that I am aware of other than paying it on your income tax.

Also, is my FFL dealer in jeopardy for this? there is nothing in the law about this.. so if he got audited, would he be U.S. Creek?

Oh, yeah. There is nothing in the law about this? The CA BOE says that the FFL is responsible for the sales tax. If he got audited there is two likely outcomes, first he starts working for the state for the rest of his life to pay all the money, as well as interest and penalties or secondly, he get free room and board and all the sex he doesn't want. Overall the outlook would not be pretty, to say the least. He was no way to prove that the money was ever paid, plus even if it was, I doubt that it would matter since he did not pay it.

[hartek451]

The issue is i have been doing a handgun and long gun a month all year.. so my theoretical use tax liability is not small.. I don't want to pay it all end of year, because it could flip it over the 'penalty' line, so I want to do estimated tax payments.. but you can't do that for use tax. that is only for income tax, or that is what my tax guy says.

I have been poking around the boe website.. it looks like I have to
"register for a California tax or fee permit, license and/or account with the California Department of Tax and Fee Administration (CDTFA) and/or State Board of Equalization (BOE"
and then pay sales tax to myself and then pass it to state

wtf

maybe I could just say, if someone comes asking, you tell me how to pay and I will...

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by hartek451

The issue is i have been doing a handgun and long gun a month all year.. so my theoretical use tax liability is not small.. I don't want to pay it all end of year, because it could flip it over the 'penalty' line, so I want to do estimated tax payments.. but you can't do that for use tax. that is only for income tax, or that is what my tax guy says.

I have been poking around the boe website.. it looks like I have to
"register for a California tax or fee permit, license and/or account with the California Department of Tax and Fee Administration (CDTFA) and/or State Board of Equalization (BOE"
and then pay sales tax to myself and then pass it to state

wtf

maybe I could just say, if someone comes asking, you tell me how to pay and I will...

Can't your tax guy answer this question for you? If not, maybe you need a new tax guy?

E.g., is there even a penalty waiting to pay use tax at end of year?

[kemasa]

You can call the CA BOE and ask them, but then they might want to know the name of the FFL so that they can come and audit him.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by B.J.F.

I worked for Bright Spot Pawn, the DROS fee was 30.00, 25 goes to the state, 5 goes to the dealer. Those fees are set by the state. However the dealer can charge a processing fee for receiving a firearm that they did not sell. Prices for that ranged from 50 per - 125 per firearm. There is a lot of work that goes into receiving a firearm. You have to check it in, put it in your gun book, DROS processing time 15-20 mins, double check the 4473 for errors then when you pick up check the firearm out and dispose the transaction in the gun book. Each firearm has around and hours worth of time invested and that's only basic stuff.... If your going through an audit at the time it could easily tripple the amount of time spent having to handle everything multiple times with the auditing agent.

Did Bright Spot Pawn advertise the DROS fee as $30 or $25 with a $5 dealer fee?

Former is not legal - as it is mis-representing the $5 dealer fee as a state mandated fee.
Latter is legal - because it distinguishes the state $25 fee vs $5 dealer fee.

ETA: Relevant PC referenced here: https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#13

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by B.J.F.

Also the state had mandated fixed amounts the dealer charges... it was in their regulations booklet for FFL's.... The only fee that was dealer set is the one for shipped in weapons that were not bought from the FFL directly.

The only fixed amounts for FFLs are PPTs @ $10 and the actual DROS Fee - $25. There is no other fixed fee in regards to DROS/transfers.

Essentially they charge everyone +$5 for DROS (which is fine) but make people believe it's part of DROS which it is not. They at least appropriately break it out, but it is not appropriate to call it the DROS fee. Unless their poster said something like "DROS Process = $25 State DROS fee + $5 Dealer Fee" vs making people believe the DROS fee includes a fixed $5 dealer fee.

In any case, I don't really care what they do, but just wanted to clarify for those non-FFLs reading this thread that DROS fee is always $25 (unless laws change). Anyone saying otherwise is not being honest with their customers.

[Gowking]

Originally Posted by B.J.F.

Poster on the wall said, DROS $30 then broke it down State/Dealer, also said PPT Fees and breakdown, then had dealer processing fee for non store bought weapons that were shipped in.

So if a customer bought an in stock firearm would they be paying that $30 fee?

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by B.J.F.

Poster on the wall said, DROS $30 then broke it down State/Dealer, also said PPT Fees and breakdown, then had dealer processing fee for non store bought weapons that were shipped in.

That is a clear misrepresentation of the DROS fees and it is illegal. "Breaking it down" does not make it acceptable since the DROS fee is NOT $30, it is $25.

Originally Posted by B.J.F.

Also the state had mandated fixed amounts the dealer charges... it was in their regulations booklet for FFL's.... The only fee that was dealer set is the one for shipped in weapons that were not bought from the FFL directly.

Incorrect, the law says that the MAXIMUM a FFL can charge is $10 for a CA PPT, it does not mandate it, it only places a limit. There is NO requirement that a FFL charge anything.

[CA Gun Laws Suck]

My question is: if a customer is purchasing a firearm from an out of state retailer is the FFL fee taxable?

I just read through the 9 pages of this thread and from everything I read it says yes. I found the link to a BOE publication from 2011. I want to confirm that it is still correct.