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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 01-14-2019, 7:24 AM
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Default New CA CCW certification - El Dorado

Just got this email from instructor Arne Digerud (NV) re: CA certification. CA has raised the bar qualifying range performance/ability. FYI...



Hi Everyone,

This email is specifically for California Residents regarding new qualification requirements for their CALFORNIA CCW PERMIT. Qualifying for your Nevada non-resident permit is still as simple and easy as always.

I got an email from the El Dorado County Sheriff's Office that outlines new requirements effective January 1 of this year. These changes will require that I revamp my classes to accommodate you when you take the class for your California permit.

As a result, I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO QUALIFY ANY CALIFORNIA RENEWALS OR FIRST TIME CALIFORNIA PERMIT APPLICANTS IN NEXT WEEK'S CLASS. I was not going to do a class in February, but if you need to renew your California permit soon I will do a February class for California residents.

I have attached the new CA penal code and the document explaining how you must qualify from EDSO. Check them out so you understand what we are doing. Here is the short version...

You will now have to fulfill the following requirements:

YOU MUST ACTUALLY QUALIFY WITH EVERY GUN YOU WANT ON YOUR PERMIT. No exceptions. Adding a gun will require that you qualify with it. This will be time consuming on the range, and if you have more than 3 guns, it will also incur additional fees for the time involved.

YOU MUST QUALIFY AT LONGER DISTANCES. Each gun will have to be shot from 5, 10 and15 yards. That will be twice the distance you are used to at the longest yardage.

YOU WILL HAVE A MANDATORY RELOAD AT EACH DISTANCE.

YOU MUST DRAW FROM THE HOLSTER AT EACH DISTANCE. This is a radical departure from our usual qualification, and this will NOW NECESSITATE SPECIFIC HOLSTER REQUIREMENTS that I will advise you of when I get the details worked out for February's class.

YOU WILL HAVE TIME LIMITS TO DRAW AND SHOOT 10 ROUNDS (WITH A MANDATORY RELOAD) AT EACH DISTANCE. The time limits are: 5 yards, 12 seconds; 10 yards, 15 seconds; 15 yards, 18 seconds.

SCORING WILL BE MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN IN THE PAST. Go on line and look up the image of a B-27 qualification target. This is the new qualification target for EDSO It is probably the one you shot at your last class with me. All hits are scored anywhere within the outer scoring ring (the 7 ring). You must get 24 out of 30 shots into the scoring ring area.

Last point: DON'T PANIC!!

My immediate plan is to have all renewal classes for both CA and NV to be a 4 hour range day. We can discuss the "discussion" elements of the class during breaks. That means the renewal class will now be a 4 hour basic skills class. Most of you never get a chance to go over the basic skills in a structured teaching environment anyway, so I think this will take your abilities to a new level. At the end of the class we will shoot the CA qualification using the skills you just spent 4 hours perfecting. I know some of you went pale when you read the above requirements, but you can all do this. Now some may ask, "What about my North American Arms single action .22 mini revolver?" I understand the allure of a small gun you can almost hide in a watchband, but California may have made it impossible to carry one legally. If you can shoot 5, reload, and shoot 5 more in 12 seconds, then you are good to go. Realistically I don't think that will happen for you. Or me, or anyone else, but if you are married to the little revolver, you have your work cut out for you. For regular revolver shooters, you will want to become intimately acquainted with speed loaders if you aren't already.

Going to a Range Day Renewal class will cost more. This is a lot more work for me so I have to charge more. I will have to consider this a bit, but I won't hurt anybody with the new fees.

California is going to keep putting more burdens on gun owners, and especially CCW Permit holders. This may be better for you as it will give me an opportunity to spend more range time with you working on the basic skills that you want to be subconscious when your are handling and shooting a gun.

So, think over what you have been given in this email. Send me your feedback, either by email or feel free to call me.

Stay safe,
Arne

(775) 782-0312 - Home
(775) 781-2763 - Cell
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Old 01-14-2019, 7:44 AM
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I don't think all of those are CA law. I know that qualify with each gun is new law. Most of those look specific to El Dorado county though.

For the record, here is the new law.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...5.&lawCode=PEN

Quote:
(a) For new license applicants, the course of training for issuance of a license under Section 26150 or 26155 may be any course acceptable to the licensing authority that meets all of the following criteria:

(1) The course shall be no less than eight hours, but shall not be required to exceed 16 hours in length.

(2) The course shall include instruction on firearm safety, firearm handling, shooting technique, and laws regarding the permissible use of a firearm.

(3) The course shall include live-fire shooting exercises on a firing range and shall include a demonstration by the applicant of safe handling of, and shooting proficiency with, each firearm that the applicant is applying to be licensed to carry.

(b) A licensing authority shall establish, and make available to the public, the standards it uses when issuing licenses with regards to the required live-fire shooting exercises, including, but not limited to, a minimum number of rounds to be fired and minimum passing scores from specified firing distances.

(c) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), the licensing authority may require a community college course certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training, up to a maximum of 24 hours, but only if required uniformly of all license applicants without exception.

(d) For license renewal applicants, the course of training may be any course acceptable to the licensing authority, shall be no less than four hours, and shall satisfy the requirements of paragraphs (2) and (3) of subdivision (a). No course of training shall be required for any person certified by the licensing authority as a trainer for purposes of this section, in order for that person to renew a license issued pursuant to this article.

(e) The applicant shall not be required to pay for any training courses prior to the determination of good cause being made pursuant to Section 26202.

Major new changes are qualify with each gun and 8 hour minimum initial course, those are the only changes that directly apply to applicants.



Compare that to the old law:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180920...5.&lawCode=PEN

Quote:
(a) For new license applicants, the course of training for issuance of a license under Section 26150 or 26155 may be any course acceptable to the licensing authority, shall not exceed 16 hours, and shall include instruction on at least firearm safety and the law regarding the permissible use of a firearm.

(b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), the licensing authority may require a community college course certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training, up to a maximum of 24 hours, but only if required uniformly of all license applicants without exception.

(c) For license renewal applicants, the course of training may be any course acceptable to the licensing authority, shall be no less than four hours, and shall include instruction on at least firearm safety and the law regarding the permissible use of a firearm. No course of training shall be required for any person certified by the licensing authority as a trainer for purposes of this section, in order for that person to renew a license issued pursuant to this article.

(d) The applicant shall not be required to pay for any training courses prior to the determination of good cause being made pursuant to Section 2620

Now where this may be coming from in regards to Eldo County new qualification requirements, is the new law that IAs must make publicly available their qualification standards. Given that they now must do this, some IAs may be looking to beef up their qual standards.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 01-14-2019 at 8:02 AM..
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Old 01-14-2019, 8:08 AM
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Sounds like EDSO has updated their requirements for minimum training. The only you have in your letter that is law the qualification for each firearm. The method of that is up to the IA
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Old 01-14-2019, 8:46 AM
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Yawn.. OC has had those requirements AND MORE since the start of the CCW program.
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Yawn.. OC has had those requirements AND MORE since the start of the CCW program.
Except for holster draw and reloads. Also, distances are closer, 3,5,7 yards and no time limit with 70% pass score. And only the first firearm has 72 rounds (24 per distance) any subsequent firearms are 20 rounds total at 5 and 7 yards (10 rounds per).


The EDSD requirements are much more stringent. The holster and reload requirement is there most likely so people do not qualify with their safe queens as they would incur extra costs on holsters and mag holders.

Also, the time limits mean revolver shooters are screwed (as mentioned by another poster) unless they invest in speed loaders.
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:12 AM
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I've never understood the long distance shooting requirement as applied to snub-nosed revolvers. (I believe I have heard that some places Make Appropriate Allowances.)

Not being Jerry Miculek, 5 yards is about the farthest I'd want to shoot a snubbie.

There are some small semi-auto handguns that I think have nearly the same practical shooting distance as snub-nosed revolvers.
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Old 01-14-2019, 3:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
I've never understood the long distance shooting requirement as applied to snub-nosed revolvers...
Also, the way the laws are I have a feeling if one is engaging anyone at 15 yards they'll be most likely charged as an argument could be made that they could have avoided the confrontation. Unless the other party has already been shooting.
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:03 AM
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What's next - must use drop leg holster while wearing PASGT helmet? Trick shots? Gun spinning?
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Old 01-15-2019, 11:34 AM
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These are the same qualifications I did a year and a half ago with my CCW instructor. I had to qualify with both guns on my permit. (class rule, not EDC rule). It wasn't too bad. I'll be sure to get some more range time in prior to my renewal later this year to stay sharp. Practicing reloading dry-fire really helped me a lot come qualification day. The people who struggled at the longer ranges were the ones who don't practice with their weapon and had to re-take the qualification multiple times to shrink their group sizes into the maximum allowable area. The folks who knew their guns reasonably well didn't have any trouble and most passed the test the first time.
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Old 01-15-2019, 6:34 PM
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There was a thread started last November about the upcoming changes in 2019 to state wide uniform training requirements for CCW Licensing.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...&highlight=ccw

So in the new set of rules and regulations for El Dorado County, what if your listed semi-auto pistol uses 7 or 8 round magazines? Do they allow for magazine changes, during the timed fire session?

Or as others asked what about using a revolver? Would speed loaders, or speed strips be allowed?
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Old 01-15-2019, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadside View Post
Sounds like EDSO has updated their requirements for minimum training. The only you have in your letter that is law the qualification for each firearm. The method of that is up to the IA
This.

Title should be New El Dorado CCW Certification (rather than CA.)
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