Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-12-2021, 1:18 AM
Mudrigg's Avatar
Mudrigg Mudrigg is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 53
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default Helping deceased friends spouse.

I have scoured the forums. Here is what I learned. Friends spouse legally owns all of the guns he left to her unless will or trust days differently. Legally she was supposed to file a form within 30 or 60 days with $19 to register. (This has not happened). Here are my questions.

Does she have to get them changed to her name prior to selling them??? Is there any benefit to doing so? Is there a risk to doing so since its past the 30 or 60 days? What are the limits as to how many she can sell since we are passed the 60 day no limit time frame? Lastly, what can be done with any ARs that might be found assuming they are in a CA legal condition?

Thanks for the advice as I try to help the family out.

Last edited by Mudrigg; 02-12-2021 at 1:21 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-12-2021, 1:39 AM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is offline
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,995
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudrigg View Post
I have scoured the forums. Here is what I learned. Friends spouse legally owns all of the guns he left to her unless will or trust days differently. Legally she was supposed to file a form within 30 or 60 days with $19 to register. (This has not happened). Here are my questions.

Does she have to get them changed to her name prior to selling them??? Is there any benefit to doing so? Is there a risk to doing so since its past the 30 or 60 days? What are the limits as to how many she can sell since we are passed the 60 day no limit time frame? Lastly, what can be done with any ARs that might be found assuming they are in a CA legal condition?

Thanks for the advice as I try to help the family out.
Once the surviving spouse acquires the firearms, the surviving spouse has 30 days to report all the firearms to CA DOJ BOF. [PC 27920(a)(2)]
^This is done by submitting a Report of Operation of Law.

If the suriving spouse transfers the firearms before the 30 day window ends, then there is no need to report the firearms to CA DOJ BOF.
^Any firearms that are kept in their possession after the 30 days must be reported. There is no penalty for reporting after the 30 day window.

All firearms that the surviving spouse transfers within 60 days do not count towards the limits a non-FFL can do in a calendar year. [PC 26515(a)(3),(b)]

Firearms that the surviving spouse transfers after the 60 day window count towards the limits a non-FFL can do in a calendar year. [PC 26520(a)]
^Limits are less than six transaction per calendar year with no more than 50 firearms total. [PC 16730]

Within 90 days, one of the following must be done with firearms that are RAWs that the surviving spouse acquires and does not have joint registration of:
A. Render them permanently inoperable.
B. Transfer the RAW to a CA FFL dealer with an assault weapons permit or an out-of-state FFL dealer.
C. Transport the RAW out of CA for storage in another State or to transfer through an out-of-state FFL dealer.
D. Surrender the RAW to law enforcement for destruction.
The 90 day window is an exemption period that allows the surviving spouse to legally possess and transfer the RAW. After the 90 day window ends, that exemption is void and they will be in felony possession of an assault weapon, if they still have the RAW.



Penal Code 26500
(a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless the person has been issued a license pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

Penal Code 26515
Section 26500 does not apply to the sale, lease, or transfer of a firearm if both of the following conditions are satisfied:
(a) The sale, lease, or transfer is made by a person who obtains title to the firearm by any of the following means:
(3) As a surviving spouse pursuant to Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 13500) of Part 2 of Division 8 of the Probate Code.
(b) The person disposes of the firearm within 60 days of receipt of the firearm.

Penal Code 26520
(a) Section 26500 does not apply to the infrequent sale, lease, or transfer of firearms.
(b) As used in this section, “infrequent” has the meaning provided in Section 16730.

Penal Code 16730
(a) As used in Section 31815 and in Division 6 (commencing with Section 26500) of Title 4, “infrequent” means both of the following are true:
(1) The person conducts less than six transactions per calendar year.
(2) The person sells, leases, or transfers no more than 50 total firearms per calendar year.
(b) As used in this section, “transaction” means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of firearms.

Penal Code 27545
Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer’s license issued pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).

Penal Code 27920
(a) Section 27545 does not apply to a person who takes title or possession of a firearm by operation of law if the person is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm and all of the following conditions are met:
(2) If the person taking title or possession is receiving the firearm pursuant to subdivision (g), (h), (l), or (q) of Section 16990, the person shall do both of the following:
(A) Within 30 days of taking possession, submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title or possession was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question.
(B) Prior to taking title or possession of the firearm, the person shall obtain a valid firearm safety certificate, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be presented.

Penal Code 16990
As used in any provision listed in subdivision (a) of Section 16585, the phrase “a person taking title or possession of a firearm by operation of law” includes, but is not limited to, any of the following instances in which an individual receives title to, or possession of, a firearm:
(h) A firearm passing to a surviving spouse pursuant to Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 13500) of Part 2 of Division 8 of the Probate Code.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

Last edited by Quiet; 02-12-2021 at 1:53 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-12-2021, 10:13 PM
Mudrigg's Avatar
Mudrigg Mudrigg is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 53
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Awesome information. What if the ARs a are either featureless or have the proper current fixed magazine requirements in place? (Juggernaut kit/ Patriot pin etc) Are they still considered RAWs or can they be sold as is in their CA legal form?

Thanks again for the help!!!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-12-2021, 10:29 PM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is offline
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,995
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudrigg View Post
Awesome information. What if the ARs a are either featureless or have the proper current fixed magazine requirements in place? (Juggernaut kit/ Patriot pin etc) Are they still considered RAWs or can they be sold as is in their CA legal form?
If the firearms are configured in a manner that does not defined them as assault weapons or prohibited weapons, then they can be transferred like any other CA legal firearm.

However...

In order to be considered a RAW, it had to be registered as an assault weapon during the appropriate eligibility window.
^If the registration was successful, then CA DOJ BOF would have sent the registered owner a letter listing all the RAWs they own.

RAWs can be modified into a non-assault weapon configuration, deregistered as a RAW, and transferred like any other CA legal firearm.

However, only the registered owner can legally deregister a RAW.
Which means, if the registered owner is deceased, then no one can legally deregister it.

Which is why the only legal options for RAWs that are acquired due to the registered owner being deceased are:
A. Render them permanently inoperable (destroy reciever per BATFE specifications).
B. Transfer the RAWs to a CA FFL dealer with an assault weapons permit or an out-of-state FFL dealer.
C. Transport the RAWs out of CA for storage in another State or to transfer through an out-of-state FFL dealer.
D. Surrender the RAWs to law enforcement for destruction.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-12-2021, 11:26 PM
Mudrigg's Avatar
Mudrigg Mudrigg is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 53
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Got it. I appreciate the valuable information. I may have more questions Monday after I inventory the collection but at least I'm armed with some good intel as I dive in. Really appreciate it.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-15-2021, 7:36 PM
US3000 US3000 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 13
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Hello Quiet - Hoping you can help me with a similar question.

Family friends have a son who has passed away leaving a semi-auto handgun.

The Father and Sister are still with us, but unsure if the gun was ever registered since it may have been purchased long ago in another state. Neither the father or sister are gun owners.

What is the best path forward to facilitate a sale of the gun to a third party?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-15-2021, 8:39 PM
G-forceJunkie's Avatar
G-forceJunkie G-forceJunkie is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SCV, So. Cal
Posts: 5,917
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Worst case with the AR's if they are registered AW's: Strip them down, sell everything but the reciever. Surender just the lowers in to the police or destroy them and fillout a "no longer in possesion" form.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-16-2021, 2:50 AM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is offline
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,995
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by US3000 View Post
Hello Quiet - Hoping you can help me with a similar question.

Family friends have a son who has passed away leaving a semi-auto handgun.

The Father and Sister are still with us, but unsure if the gun was ever registered since it may have been purchased long ago in another state. Neither the father or sister are gun owners.

What is the best path forward to facilitate a sale of the gun to a third party?
The executor the deceased's estate can legally dispose of the firearm within 60 days.
This can be the following:
A. Sell the firearm to a CA FFL dealer and an out-of-state FFL dealer.
B. Sell the firearm to a CA resident via PPT.
C. Sell the firearm to a non-resident and deliver it to be transferred through an out-of-state FFL dealer.
D. Transfer the firearm to the deceased's immediate family member (grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild), that is a 18+ year old non-prohibited person with a valid FSC or exemption to the FSC, and the immediate family member reports the transfer to CA DOJ BOF within 30 days of receiving the firearm.
E. Surrender the firearm to law enforcement for destruction.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-16-2021, 7:08 PM
US3000 US3000 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 13
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Thank you. Very helpful and very much appreciated.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:21 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy