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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles. |
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#3
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If you step up about $300 you can get bergara but the Howa is quite good and very good triggers
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#4
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It's accurate enough that you'll probably get bored at 100 yards. You could buy 2 inch targets and just nail them all day long.
Comes in a mini action in 223, so you get a nice short cycling bolt. Howa rifles are good stuff. Kind of a nightmare buying anything right now though. |
#5
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I use mine for varmints and for hunting practice. If the OP is limited to a 100 yard range, shooting from sticks, a tripod, or sitting with elbows on knees provides a different kind of challenge. Once he's mastered, those, it's time to try offhand shooting (which I am not close to mastering).
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#6
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I have owned a Howa 1500 for over 25 years. One of the most accurate rifles I own, 24 inch bull barrel 1 in 12 twist .223. The old triggers where not two stage and where good, but the Timmney I put in made it even easier to shoot tight groups. Mine came with one of the first cheap looking black plastic stock(functional light, and and kept price down) I have since put a McMillan stock on it.
Mine is a dedicated bench shooter with heavy stock and 6x20 optics and it can destroy ground squirrels out to 300 yards with pinpoint accuracy shooting 40 or 50 grain vmax. Mine will shoot dime sized groups at 100 yards all day long with fiocchi vmax ammo. |
#7
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having said that, for a basic "shooter", from everything I have heard, Howa are hard to beat. hence the question. |
#8
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https://www.bergara.online/us/accuracy-testing/ They are very well finished rifles. Were I in the market Imwould be looking at them I do have a howa heavy barrel in .308 and it has been great particularly once in a proper stock (i dropped it in to a bell and carlson target stock). The Bergara line offers some pretty good stuff including free floated barrels on some models. I will just let you check the catalog, but great stuff. Put it this way, I would sell you my howa for a song and the money would go right into one of these. Here is the catalog https://www.bergara.online/us/wp-con...g-6.26.20.pdf/
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#10
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#11
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Cheap $200 compass rifles have a 1 moa guarantee too... It's kind of the standard more than anything. A bolt gun shooting over an inch is garbage. Its a fair and reasonable expectation.
I'm sure the bergaras are great, but at 100 yards, it's hard to justify any extra cost. The howas are really nice rifles anyway. |
#12
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If I could spend $800-1000 on a rifle for long range shooting and hunting, I'd get a Bergara HMR in 6.5 Creedmoor and wouldn't hesitate for a moment. If I could only afford a < $500 rifle, or wanted a .223 or 6.5 Grendel for short- or mid-range plinking, I'd get a Howa or Ruger American. I don't think I'd be disappointed either way, so it really depends on the intended use.
Based on OP's 100 yard criteria, the Howa is a fantastic rifle that will be more than capable of shooting tiny groups at 100 yards. Buy with confidence and enjoy! I'd also recommend an SWFA SS scope for it. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
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WTB: Beretta 92/M9 series (non-railed), Remington 1100 LT-20, Last edited by DrewTheBrave; 07-07-2020 at 4:07 PM.. |
#13
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Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk |
#15
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I am not in the market at the moment, and certainly have very little use for a .223 bolt rifle, so no, I haven’t searched to see if they offer a model to satisfy you so you don’t whimper as you did above. if Bergara doesn’t have on in that caliber so be it. My point of my statement is that they make a very good rifle, and one can get into one for about $700-$800. Nothing wrong with a Howa, but by comparison the action is sloppy and the quality of construction of a Bergara, dollar for dollar is pretty hard to beat. I own a Howa, among other bolt rifles, my experience with bergara is merely that I have a god friend who hunts with a Bergara and I have shot it a good bit, alomg with a good bit of research on them. Thompson center sources barrels from them, and thompsons are quite accurate rifles, if a little funky. Simply, the Bergaras are good rifles. OP would be worlds better getting a 22-250 anyway if he is really after target shooting IMO. Of course a hundred yards is not much of a reach and likely any bolt gun will have pretty indiscernible precision at that short distance. To each his own.
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#16
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I have all ready posted the merits of the Howa and my great experience with them. I have never had any experience with Bergara. I do not know the price point of either. I can say Howa's I believe are still made in Japan(country with great reputation for good steel, and quality control on most products since the late 70s) and have been making consumer rifles for at least 40 years, make rifles for Weatherby, and I have witnessed them shoot extremely tight groups and have seen other hunters in the field with them for last thirty years or so.
I think I read somewhere that they produced sniper rifles for the Japanese military, idk for sure. So with that resume, I would have to say Howa over Bergara. Bergara may be great, but kind of the new kid on the block here in the USA. I personally would only entertain Bergara if it was less expensive or the ergonomics of the rifle fit me much better. |
#17
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Bergara’s machining is cleaner, the bolts often are smoother, cleaner movement and so on. The point is kind of moot as it seems they do not offer a price conscious 223 any more - they do offer a 22-250 round though which is faster, harder hitting, flatter, more accurate and frankly if the option is available, a better option. The big downside is the ammo is double the cost at approx 60 cents a round v 35 cents/rd or so these days for 223. Certainly the Howa is fine, just wanted him to be aware of options avsilable. Were the $699 Bergara available, it would be worth a hard look. As it was discontinued in 2019 it may be hard to find But if you or anyone is looking for good quality hunting rifles the lineup is quite good and I would have no reservations putting it in use instead of my CZ-550 or my pre-64 mod 70, which are two of my three hinting rifles. The howa is a heavy barrel rifle so frankly too much of a pig to tale on a hunt in the rockies where I do what I do. For a bench, sure thing. Didn’t mean to cause a rabble, just want the guy to be aware of soe, good options.
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#18
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Well said SloChicken. You know fine rifles, and application of such. I too have a Model 70 sporter pre 64 and a CZ 17HMR. Those Bergara's look like they have some nice wood based on pictures I have seen. So I forgot to add wood to a reason why I would take a look at Bergara(I am a sucker for a pretty wood carry hunting rifle), and now since you have mentioned the fine actions they might make one fine deer rifle. To bad I already have too many guns haha
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#19
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If it is 1-9" then 69 grain bullets will definitely stabilize, but 75+ grain bullets will be marginally stabilized, i.e. may or may not stabilize depending on air density. |
#20
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On the barrels... Bergara is button rifled, and the Howa are hammer forged. while there was a time button was thought of as "cheap mass produce" methods, it seems that has changed. So i don't think that matters anymore. The Howa mini action is offered with a twist rate of 1-8 per the 2020 catalog. comes with either a 20inch heavy, or 22 inch standard. |
#22
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Length does not compensate for twist rate. Unless the extra length gives you enough velocity gain to spin it that much faster (which isn't very likely.)
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#23
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Velocity has an effect on bullet stabilization. Extra length gives more velocity. More velocity means more accuracy over long distances, but doesn't matter much over 100 yards, which is what OP wants. For him, 55 to 64 gr bullets would be fine.
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#25
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Call me human I guess 1:8 is a great rate. It can handle the heaviest of .223 rounds and will accept all. There are comparison charts around that will show spin rate and optimal projectile weight. Give a quick search, they are easily found.
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Last edited by SloChicken; 07-14-2020 at 10:46 AM.. |
#26
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I am very happy with my Howa 1500 in 223 with hand loaded 50-grain Blitzkings out to 100 yards...it is a 1:12 barrel.
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"Bruen, the Bruen opinion, I believe, discarded the intermediate scrutiny test that I also thought was not very useful; and has, instead, replaced it with a text history and tradition test." Judge Benitez 12-12-2022 NRA Endowment Life Member, CRPA Life Member GLOCK (Gen 1-5, G42/43), Colt AR15/M16/M4, Sig P320, Sig P365, Beretta 90 series, Remington 870, HK UMP Factory Armorer Remington Nylon, 1911, HK, Ruger, Hudson H9 Armorer, just for fun! I instruct it if you shoot it. |
#28
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+2" barrel = marginal velocity increase = not much chance of stabilizing heavier bullets that aren't stabilized in the shorter barrel. |
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