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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 12-07-2023, 12:00 PM
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Default 32 acp for ccw

I was at a local gun store this morning and ready to pork in for Beretta Tomcat 32 acp. I was told the minimum caliber to carry in california is at least 380 caliber. Is 32 acp not allowed for ccw?
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  #2  
Old 12-07-2023, 12:11 PM
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Depends on your IA.

Ask them. CA doesn’t have a minimum caliber requirement.
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2023, 12:11 PM
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It's time to read your local Issuing Agency - IA - policy.....

What is in their policy?

also, what is their qualification shooting target and distance????

If one has a sightless 32, shooting 80% at 25 yards would be more of a challenge....
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Old 12-07-2023, 12:29 PM
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Its not true. OCSD approves 32acp.


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  #5  
Old 12-07-2023, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silaic7 View Post
I was at a local gun store this morning and ready to pork in for Beretta Tomcat 32 acp. I was told the minimum caliber to carry in california is at least 380 caliber. Is 32 acp not allowed for ccw?
I live in Sacramento County and have a CCW here, a couple years ago one of my guns on my permit was a 22LR.

Last edited by Velocitor; 12-08-2023 at 2:11 PM..
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Old 12-07-2023, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by silaic7 View Post
I was at a local gun store this morning and ready to pork in for Beretta Tomcat 32 acp. I was told the minimum caliber to carry in california is at least 380 caliber. Is 32 acp not allowed for ccw?
Depends on your IA.

Ask them. CA doesn't have a minimum caliber requirement.
What 9Cal_OC said.


Since the OP's location is Fontana...
The San Bernardino County Sheriff Department has caliber requirements on the handguns they will approve to be listed on the CA CCW permits they issue.
^Minimum .25 caliber and Maximum .45 caliber.
~.32ACP fits within the caliber requirements for SBSD.
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Last edited by Quiet; 12-07-2023 at 4:45 PM..
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Old 12-08-2023, 11:35 AM
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For one thing, .32ACP is a rimmed cartridge that's susceptible to "rim lock" in the mag when jostled about during EDC (likely depends on the firearm etc). One should be aware of this if considering a .32ACP for EDC!

http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/rimlock.htm

https://www.thektog.org/threads/how-...i-ammo.245428/

In any case with .32ACP, likely best to use the longest OAL cartridges you can etc.
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2023, 3:37 PM
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I would be concerned about the effectiveness of .32 acp in a SD situation.

It may be OK at very close quarters, but at longer distances it would appear to be lacking in stopping power.

Also, at very close quarters, one runs the risk of the perp grabbing your gun and/or attacking you.
-P
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Old 12-09-2023, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
It's time to read your local Issuing Agency - IA - policy.....

What is in their policy?

also, what is their qualification shooting target and distance????

If one has a sightless 32, shooting 80% at 25 yards would be more of a challenge....
Is there an IA in California that requires shooting at 25 yards to qualify? Personally, I feel LA County's requirements of 3-5-7 yards to be a little inadequate.
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  #10  
Old 12-09-2023, 4:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJD100 View Post
For one thing, .32ACP is a rimmed cartridge that's susceptible to "rim lock" in the mag when jostled about during EDC (likely depends on the firearm etc). One should be aware of this if considering a .32ACP for EDC!
Rimlock is not joke- I had occur once with my .32 PPK when I was loading a mag; had to remove the mag bottom to unjam it. That said I?ve carried the gun, and a .32 Seecamp, for years without ever seeing the problem after the mag has been loaded.
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  #11  
Old 12-09-2023, 5:39 PM
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Rimlock is not joke- I had occur once with my .32 PPK when I was loading a mag; had to remove the mag bottom to unjam it. That said I?ve carried the gun, and a .32 Seecamp, for years without ever seeing the problem after the mag has been loaded.
From pocket carrying a Kel-Tec P32 1st gen for a decade, I never experienced rimlock with it. However, I only used Fiocchi 73gr FMJ ammo loaded in the magazines with the initial chambered round was a Winchester 60gr Silvertip JHP.

Some old LEOs that I knew that used to carry .32ACP pistols (Walther PPK, Beretta Model 70), as a backup/deep concealment gun during the 1970s-1990s, recommended to only use European 73gr FMJ cartridges loaded in the magazines in order to avoid rimlock, due to their belief that the heaver/longer bullet kept the cartridges from shifting in the magazines and their belief that the European made cartridges are generally loaded hotter, than American made cartridges, so they penetrated deeper.

.32ACP used to be a standard LE duty cartridge in Europe for approximately 60 years.
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Last edited by Quiet; 12-09-2023 at 8:16 PM..
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Old 12-09-2023, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post

.33ACP used to be a standard LE duty cartridge in Europe for approximately 60 years.
.33ACP is the good stuff, I could only get .32.
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Old 12-09-2023, 8:16 PM
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.33ACP is the good stuff, I could only get .32.
typo
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Old 12-10-2023, 1:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post

.32ACP used to be a standard LE duty cartridge in Europe for approximately 60 years.
I have a Beretta 1935 in 32.ACP, and it was the Italian Navy and Airforce sidearm during WWII (their Army got the Beretta 1934 in .380).

I run 73gr FMJ's or Underwood 55 Grain Lehigh Xtreme Defenders in it, and I've never had an issue, though I don't EDC it either.

After WWII a lot of European countries had laws limiting civilians to 32ACP or under, while their military and LEO's got .380 and 9mm. Not sure how that plays out now?
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Old 12-10-2023, 7:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC2020 View Post
Is there an IA in California that requires shooting at 25 yards to qualify? Personally, I feel LA County's requirements of 3-5-7 yards to be a little inadequate.
You understand that CCW permits are patently unconstitutional, right?

Please point to the analogue laws that were in place in 1791 that required, "We The People" to trundle down to our local sheriff's office and BEG for a piece of paper to exercise our GOD GIVEN right?

Take your time...I'll wait.


Get your head straight and STOP perpetuating this tyranny.
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Old 12-10-2023, 9:08 PM
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Originally Posted by L84CABO View Post
You understand that CCW permits are patently unconstitutional, right?

Please point to the analogue laws that were in place in 1791 that required, "We The People" to trundle down to our local sheriff's office and BEG for a piece of paper to exercise our GOD GIVEN right?

Take your time...I'll wait.


Get your head straight and STOP perpetuating this tyranny.
I think I phrased it poorly; I think we agree. I was thinking more on the training side with regards to distance, not about the permit, when I wrote about the 3-5-7.
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Old 12-10-2023, 10:15 PM
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Old 12-11-2023, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JC2020 View Post
I think I phrased it poorly; I think we agree. I was thinking more on the training side with regards to distance, not about the permit, when I wrote about the 3-5-7.
As a CCW instructor, who sees people qual every week, 3-5-7 is a very low threshold and people still struggle with it.
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Old 12-16-2023, 9:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L84CABO View Post
You understand that CCW permits are patently unconstitutional, right?

Please point to the analogue laws that were in place in 1791 that required, "We The People" to trundle down to our local sheriff's office and BEG for a piece of paper to exercise our GOD GIVEN right?

Take your time...I'll wait.


Get your head straight and STOP perpetuating this tyranny.
Ok, but it doesn?t negate the fact that your thought + no ccw permit = getting arrested if you try to ccw without that permit.

While I’d agree with you in theory, your theory won’t stand up to a glass of water in court if one carries illegally. That’s just the way the laws are and enforced these days.

May I suggest you STOP acting like a “sovereign citizen,” by giving bad advice. By the way, Sov-cits hilariously ALWAYS lose their arguments in court. Always.
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Last edited by TrailerparkTrash; 12-26-2023 at 9:49 AM..
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  #20  
Old 12-24-2023, 4:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JC2020 View Post
Is there an IA in California that requires shooting at 25 yards to qualify? Personally, I feel LA County's requirements of 3-5-7 yards to be a little inadequate.
Alameda County required shooting at 25 yards until that was reduced to 15 yards just a few months ago.
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Old 12-25-2023, 10:11 AM
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Alameda County required shooting at 25 yards until that was reduced to 15 yards just a few months ago.

I don?t know if I could score 100% at 25 yards with a p365. It was easy at 7 yards to keep everything in a 4 inch group. But I would definitely have to practice for 25.
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Old 12-25-2023, 11:26 AM
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Ours was 10-15-20-25 … no time , slow fire . Not hard to do. I did it with a P-01 , P365, G19… only scored 100% with the P-01. Very close with the other two, but it was pouring rain. Learned the hard way about how polymer grips work in the rain. Talon sandy tape is on them now.

If you can’t do that , you have to think about the responsibility of being competent with your weapon when exercising your right. Rights come with responsibility. I truly hope that taking the CCW courses inspire people to get training and to continue to train. We all start somewhere, but choosing to stagnate and not improve is an odd choice. Getting better is a lot of fun. Classes are fun . Drills are fun.

Here are free dry fire targets on YouTube to practice … https://youtu.be/BvahTW36QVo?si=Y6ib0TubbmJqkNU6

Last edited by JoyfulJoker; 12-25-2023 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 12-25-2023, 12:00 PM
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I should note that by 100% I mean A zone shots, not the entire B27 silhouette that LA County uses. 10-15-20-25 is definitely a test for me; I just need more practice with the micro 9s outside 15 yards.

I agree, training is great and, IMHO, necessary. And pretty fun! Looking forward to the range tomorrow.
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Old 12-25-2023, 12:03 PM
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Tuolumne County's is too easy: 6 rounds at 4 yards, change mag then another 6 rounds at 4 yards. Not timed.

My personal opinion is that this qual does not ensure competence at greater distances.

I shoot every week with various scenarios. Last week we shot a 8" plate at 30 yards. My score was 75% hits with my PO-1 and 60% hits with my G17 using 10 rounds each 115 gr FMJ. If it was a man-size target, I would have had 100% with both weapons. I'd like to get better, so I'll keep practicing!

If you train at a level more difficult than your qual shoot's requirement, you'll be good to go, and ready if things go south in the real world.
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Old 12-25-2023, 12:07 PM
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My wife's Walther PP (French made, post war) has been 100% reliable. 100%, not one problem in over 1k rounds, of mixed factory ammo. A truely remarkable pistol.
The rim on a .32 is pretty small (.020") and I have never experienced rim lock on any of the 5 .32 pistols I own. I think it must be pretty rare.
It's actually a little snappy to shoot, but fun.
It's interesting to shoot identical pistols, except being .380 and .32acp.
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Old 12-25-2023, 12:37 PM
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Good enough choice for the international "licensed to kill" guy
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Old 12-25-2023, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC2020 View Post
Is there an IA in California that requires shooting at 25 yards to qualify? Personally, I feel LA County's requirements of 3-5-7 yards to be a little inadequate.
While it 'feels' too close, the last 10yr period that I can find FBI stats for show 493 LE killed by firearms.
Of those:
234 were under 5 feet.
320 were under 10 feet.
391 were under 20 feet
(40 had no distance reported)
https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2012/table..._2003-2012.xls


I don't have too much issue with the distance...but I think you should have to keep all 72 shots in the 8 ring to qual.
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Old 12-25-2023, 9:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKA90034 View Post
While it 'feels' too close, the last 10yr period that I can find FBI stats for show 493 LE killed by firearms.
Of those:
234 were under 5 feet.
320 were under 10 feet.
391 were under 20 feet
(40 had no distance reported)
https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2012/table..._2003-2012.xls


I don't have too much issue with the distance...but I think you should have to keep all 72 shots in the 8 ring to qual.
It's not so much the distance matching real life encounters. More that I want to train for a greater degree of difficulty to improve outcome should such a situation arise.

Keeping everything in the 8 ring at closer distances is a similar concept. I think we agree.
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Old 12-27-2023, 8:46 AM
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I pocket carried a Seecamp in .32 for years. Underwood makes a cartridge that meets the FBI requirements for a back up. I did however upgrade a couple of years ago to a Ruger LCR .357 and carry it with .38+P. I wear Dickies shorts and pants almost everyday. It lives in my pocket. Don't even know it's there.
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