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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 86 8.42%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 681 66.70%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 24 2.35%
I paid too much for my Membership! 45 4.41%
They will go out of business this year! 25 2.45%
Don't want anything to do with them! 160 15.67%
Voters: 1021. You may not vote on this poll

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  #12841  
Old 03-29-2021, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
Ah, so I thought he did test it and said nope. That's much different if he even refused to test the trigger and just told you to kick rocks. That's not cool.
The armorer took the handgun to the back and tested it with his pull gauge. He came out frowning and said ďNope!Ē I then asked him to show it to me because my Wheeler pull gauge at home had shown it to be more than 4 lbs. He said, ďI cannot show it to you, thatís not how we work.Ē So my wife used my backup gun for the class (I was taking Precision Rifle.)

When we got home, we tested it again with the same pull gauge and it was comfortably a few ounces over 4 pounds. Because some guys here said that those pull gauges are not always accurate and require constant recalibration, I bought the NRA certified trigger weight set and tested it. Sure enough, the trigger still held at 4 pounds.

I think I will write Dr. Piazza an e-mail.
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  #12842  
Old 03-29-2021, 9:10 PM
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I think I will write Dr. Piazza an e-mail.
Just one? Haha
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  #12843  
Old 03-29-2021, 10:44 PM
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Just one? Haha
No, every 2 hours. Each email will have a picture of my smiling face in a suit in the left margin.
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  #12844  
Old 03-30-2021, 4:24 AM
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No, every 2 hours. Each email will have a picture of my smiling face in a suit in the left margin.
from 10 years ago?
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  #12845  
Old 03-30-2021, 4:42 PM
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May I ask if anyone has enjoyed recreational shooting on the BLM land surrounding Front Sight and Pahrump? Any issues/concerns to know of?
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  #12846  
Old 03-31-2021, 8:39 PM
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May I ask if anyone has enjoyed recreational shooting on the BLM land surrounding Front Sight and Pahrump? Any issues/concerns to know of?
Here is a map of shooting spots around Las Vegas. It has a couple of spots close to Pahrump.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/vi...26550750000001
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  #12847  
Old 03-31-2021, 9:34 PM
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I recently took the 4-Day Defensive Handgun course at FS. It was very well done and I learned a heck of a lot. I think I went through around 400 rounds.

One issue I have is anticipating the trigger break and, consequently, shooting low on many shots. I can't blame my gun (a Glock). A FS instructor shot dead center into a target with it.

My plan now is to work on my grip and trigger control with dry fire practice. I might even buy one of those dry fire laser training kits.

P.S., "Mom's Diner" in Pahrump is a nice little restaurant. Mostly traditional American food with a home-cooking style to it. Highly recommended!
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Last edited by Nacho_Eater; 03-31-2021 at 9:36 PM..
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  #12848  
Old 04-01-2021, 9:45 AM
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Nacho, there are several schools of thought on trigger press, including the trap, reset, press taught at FS. Some folks actually think that is slower than a press, release, and press. There are a lot of really good drills for pressing the trigger without disturbing the sights. One is to have your gun up and ready with a timer that beeps. On the beep, press the trigger immediately. The goal should be to fire before the end of the beep. (much easier said than done). If you have an actual shot timer, in live fire, the goal is for the timer not to register the shot. Meaning you shot before the end of the beep. Anything less than .25 is acceptable.
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  #12849  
Old 04-01-2021, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Nacho, there are several schools of thought on trigger press, including the trap, reset, press taught at FS. Some folks actually think that is slower than a press, release, and press. There are a lot of really good drills for pressing the trigger without disturbing the sights. One is to have your gun up and ready with a timer that beeps. On the beep, press the trigger immediately. The goal should be to fire before the end of the beep. (much easier said than done). If you have an actual shot timer, in live fire, the goal is for the timer not to register the shot. Meaning you shot before the end of the beep. Anything less than .25 is acceptable.
Actually, the "trap" is training wheels that can come off once you have mastered not flying off the trigger. Then it becomes press, reset, press. Similar to what you referenced except you are only releasing the trigger to the reset. Doing this without disturbing the sights is key. Also taking out the slack before pressing the trigger will help.
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  #12850  
Old 04-01-2021, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho_Eater View Post
I recently took the 4-Day Defensive Handgun course at FS. It was very well done and I learned a heck of a lot. I think I went through around 400 rounds.

One issue I have is anticipating the trigger break and, consequently, shooting low on many shots. I can't blame my gun (a Glock). A FS instructor shot dead center into a target with it.

My plan now is to work on my grip and trigger control with dry fire practice. I might even buy one of those dry fire laser training kits.

P.S., "Mom's Diner" in Pahrump is a nice little restaurant. Mostly traditional American food with a home-cooking style to it. Highly recommended!
Practice the trigger reset drill at home when dry practicing. The first two times I took that class I kept flying off the trigger with each shot. Once I made a conscious design to correct it and practice it at home it became ingrained and was trapping and resetting the trigger without even thinking about it. Comes second nature now.
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  #12851  
Old 04-01-2021, 7:13 PM
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So, I did write FS an e-mail about my CZ Shadow 2 trigger and got a reply in a few days. She, the Range Operations Manager, said to bring it to weapons inspection to be tested next time I have a class. If the armorer fails it again and I can prove the 4 lb NRA trigger weight can be hung from the trigger without activating the trigger, to let her know.

My only problem now is that I only have rifle classes scheduled. But who says I can't put on the handgun in a holster and walk into weapons inspection, right?
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  #12852  
Old 04-02-2021, 8:11 AM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
So, I did write FS an e-mail about my CZ Shadow 2 trigger and got a reply in a few days. She, the Range Operations Manager, said to bring it to weapons inspection to be tested next time I have a class. If the armorer fails it again and I can prove the 4 lb NRA trigger weight can be hung from the trigger without activating the trigger, to let her know.

My only problem now is that I only have rifle classes scheduled. But who says I can't put on the handgun in a holster and walk into weapons inspection, right?
Thatís what you should do. Get there as early as possible. I canít believe that BS about ďI canít show it to you, thatís not how we work.Ē WTH? Honesty and openness is not how you work? Maybe have a second method to measure trigger pull as well. The armory has been radio silent since February 22nd on Instagram. A call went out for a gunsmith position on March 3rd. Seems some changes needed to be made. Good luck. Iím eagerly awaiting the results of the next encounter.
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  #12853  
Old 04-02-2021, 8:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
So, I did write FS an e-mail about my CZ Shadow 2 trigger and got a reply in a few days. She, the Range Operations Manager, said to bring it to weapons inspection to be tested next time I have a class. If the armorer fails it again and I can prove the 4 lb NRA trigger weight can be hung from the trigger without activating the trigger, to let her know.

My only problem now is that I only have rifle classes scheduled. But who says I can't put on the handgun in a holster and walk into weapons inspection, right?


Very nice!!! Let us know how it proceeds the next time; albeit, I already sold my Shadow 2... ... simply wasn't for me...


_
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  #12854  
Old 04-02-2021, 8:27 AM
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what is the standard regarding DA/SA for trigger weight?
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  #12855  
Old 04-02-2021, 9:14 AM
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what is the standard regarding DA/SA for trigger weight?
On mine (SA/DA), it has always been measured in SA. But I guess if it is a DA/SA like most Sigs and CZ decocker models, itís measured in DA.
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  #12856  
Old 04-02-2021, 11:12 PM
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But who says I can't put on the handgun in a holster and walk into weapons inspection, right?
Or just wear your handgun during the whole rifle class and learn to work around it... Until I did that I never realized the little things I had to change up to keep both a sidearm and a long gun + ammo with me.

Last edited by DesertClimber; 04-02-2021 at 11:22 PM..
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  #12857  
Old 04-03-2021, 7:10 AM
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Or just wear your handgun during the whole rifle class and learn to work around it... Until I did that I never realized the little things I had to change up to keep both a sidearm and a long gun + ammo with me.
I have never taken a FS rifle class WITHOUT carrying my handgun.

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  #12858  
Old 04-03-2021, 7:39 AM
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Happy to hear they responded to your question on the trigger, sounds like Bridget Dury was who you heard from? She's good. Fair and runs a good crew.

As for Armorer, Jon the guy who ran their IG and was their head Armorer left Front Sight after 21+ years. I'm happy for the guy, he's off to do his own thing, left on great terms but yes that will cause a little disturbance for that team till they get staffed up again. I'll kiss him him ragging on my XD pistols and my Truglo sights as he's a super Glock diehard. Literally has a Glock logo tattoo.
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  #12859  
Old 04-03-2021, 8:50 AM
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Happy to hear they responded to your question on the trigger, sounds like Bridget Dury was who you heard from? She's good. Fair and runs a good crew.

As for Armorer, Jon the guy who ran their IG and was their head Armorer left Front Sight after 21+ years. I'm happy for the guy, he's off to do his own thing, left on great terms but yes that will cause a little disturbance for that team till they get staffed up again. I'll kiss him him ragging on my XD pistols and my Truglo sights as he's a super Glock diehard. Literally has a Glock logo tattoo.
Yes, it was Bridget Dury

Was Armorer Jon the older gray haired guy or the bald guy? Who was the one who threatened to make surprise visits during classes and kick you out of FS for life if youíre found to run a different gun or ammo than the one you went through weapons inspection with?
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  #12860  
Old 04-04-2021, 12:34 PM
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Yes, it was Bridget Dury

Was Armorer Jon the older gray haired guy or the bald guy? Who was the one who threatened to make surprise visits during classes and kick you out of FS for life if youíre found to run a different gun or ammo than the one you went through weapons inspection with?
I think Jon (forgot his surname) is the same guy who used to be Iggy's admin assistant back when FS was HQ'd in Windsor, CA.
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  #12861  
Old 04-04-2021, 3:02 PM
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I think Jon (forgot his surname) is the same guy who used to be Iggy's admin assistant back when FS was HQ'd in Windsor, CA.
Jon Landwer. Piazzaís personal assistant for years and then working in the armory. He is neither the old guy nor the bald guy asked about in the post above. The armory website is down too. I guess Jon was handling all that as well.
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  #12862  
Old 04-04-2021, 4:43 PM
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I'll be taking the 4 day rifle class in a few month and I haven't been to Front Sight in a few years so I have a few questions:

How many standard cap magazines are enough for the class?
What is the longest range that is shot during the class?
What is the recommended distance to sight the rifle in for?

Thanks guys
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  #12863  
Old 04-04-2021, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Wnick308 View Post
I'll be taking the 4 day rifle class in a few month and I haven't been to Front Sight in a few years so I have a few questions:

How many standard cap magazines are enough for the class?
What is the longest range that is shot during the class?
What is the recommended distance to sight the rifle in for?

Thanks guys
4 Day Practical Rifle or 4 Day Rifle Marksmanship? If practical rifle, I was there for class March 2020 right before they closed due to COVID.

1) I used 3 mags.

2) Up to 100yds during class/test. 200yds at the end for fun, on the last day, after the test and all other activities.

3) 50yd zero. They have a session where they let people zero their rifles, but it's recommended to have it zeroed already, and just use that time to confirm your zero.

I would recommend elbow and knee pads for shooting kneeling or prone, though you are not required to use those positions if you do not want to or are not able to.

Last edited by eXstasy; 04-04-2021 at 5:36 PM..
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  #12864  
Old 04-04-2021, 8:08 PM
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You may shoot out to 200 yards for fun, not for the test. Not sure with the new ammo requirements though.
Enjoy the class!
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  #12865  
Old 04-06-2021, 5:58 PM
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Anyone know what 223/5.56 is going for @ the ammo bunker these days?
I have plenty of ammo but if it's decently priced might get some for my class next month
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  #12866  
Old 04-07-2021, 9:33 PM
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Just got back from four days of private classes. Two days of practical rifle and two days defensive handgun. Our group had two first time visitors, including my 13yr old son with us. Skill and comfort level was my goal for Jr, not so much worried about him chasing DG. Huge improvement in his skill level, his confidence wearing a pistol and just general firearm handling. My buddy took to it like a fish in water, he was talking about upgrading membership before we left.

Ammo at bunker was expensive, try to source prior to being on site. ASW had some available, buddy was buying every chance he got online and having shipped directly to W-RV. I did buy some 9mm on site, they had Fed HST 9mm for $42/bx. Brought it all home with me as can't see punching paper with defensive ammo. Master at Arms had Winchester 200 round packs for $162.

FS training is great, no complaints on my end. I've taken classes with local instructors, traveling road shows and at Sig Academy. I am always eager to go back to FS and always have plans for next trip in works. Well worth the price of admission.
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  #12867  
Old 04-08-2021, 7:11 PM
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I'm looking for a membership level that would get me private lessons.
let me know if anyone has anything.
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  #12868  
Old 04-08-2021, 9:30 PM
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Divehobo. Glad you had a good trip.

It would be illegal to transport ammo purchased out of state into CA. I'm glad you edited your post to clarify that is not what happened.
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  #12869  
Old 04-09-2021, 8:22 AM
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I'm looking for a membership level that would get me private lessons.
let me know if anyone has anything.
Knight allows you to take up to 9 guests, it will run you $5K and you get a RIA .45. It comes with some other swag.

There's another membership that I think is $2K for just you and you can add guests for $1K each.

Best to just call them to see what's available.
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  #12870  
Old 04-09-2021, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by VolvoWrench View Post
I'm looking for a membership level that would get me private lessons.
let me know if anyone has anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjbruin View Post
Knight allows you to take up to 9 guests, it will run you $5K and you get a RIA .45. It comes with some other swag.

There's another membership that I think is $2K for just you and you can add guests for $1K each.

Best to just call them to see what's available.
Some folks also have private lesson certificates if you want to just get several of those.
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  #12871  
Old 04-09-2021, 12:33 PM
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Thanks guys. I should have mentioned Iím a commander level now.
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  #12872  
Old 04-09-2021, 5:38 PM
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Divehobo. Glad you had a good trip.

It would be illegal to transport ammo purchased out of state into CA. I'm glad you edited your post to clarify that is not what happened.
all good on my end
Thanks
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Last edited by Divehobo; 04-10-2021 at 6:24 PM..
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  #12873  
Old 04-09-2021, 8:05 PM
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Nice
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  #12874  
Old 04-11-2021, 3:58 PM
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Is the lunch situation still the same. Order in advance from Mother's Diner?
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  #12875  
Old 04-11-2021, 4:08 PM
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Is the lunch situation still the same. Order in advance from Mother's Diner?
Front Sight has their own lunch truck now. You can order lunch from then in the morning. I was there last month and they had someone taking orders in the classroom in the morning of the first day. I also ordered in the morning in the Pro Shop on day 3 for lunch for days 3 and 4.
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  #12876  
Old 04-11-2021, 6:20 PM
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Thanks Vinnie. I have a 4-day Precision Rifle class in 2 weeks.
Did they still have the Mom's Diner option or only the truck option now?
What did the truck offer?
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