308 Varmint??

[condor]

On occasion I run across someone selling a Remington 700 308 Varmint and my mind starts to think... What size varmint do you need a 308 for?? Why did they even make it?? Why would anyone buy one in the first place?? I donno it just seems like a 308 belongs in an ADL or BDL ?? 308 in a varmint grade seems like over kill....

[Teachu2]

I love mine - after adding a Jewell trigger, aftermarket stock, and much better glass than the package combo. It's for those coyotes who think 500 yards is safe.....

[Xanthippus]

Well, there are two kinds of varmints.

Varmints you want to take out and varmints you want to absolutely annihilate (to send a message to the rest of those furry ****ers).

The .308 varmint is the latter. It's about the message.

[sigstroker]

Sort of like the Savage 12FV, which comes with a heavy 26" barrel, in nice varmint calibers like .204 Ruger, .223, and .22-250. But also comes in .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor.

[deadcoyote]

Sometimes, in my experience, a .308 varmint rifle is by far the cheapest route to a decent grade rifle with a heavy barrel etc.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by condor

On occasion I run across someone selling a Remington 700 308 Varmint and my mind starts to think...
What size varmint do you need a 308 for??
Why did they even make it??
Why would anyone buy one in the first place??
I donno it just seems like a 308 belongs in an ADL or BDL ??
308 in a varmint grade seems like over kill....

They really should just call it the 308 TARGET instead of the 308 Varmint, but it's called the Varmint because it's from a whole SERIES of rifles with the same barrel contour and length.

https://www.remington.com/rifles/bol...00-sps-varmint

[sakosf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjgsMjOtVz0

[Gunsrruss]

Not enough twist for me....I always like 1/10 or 1/11 in .308.....Or a 1/8 for .223

[MongooseV8]

I hit a ground squirrel with a 300 win mag once at about 25 yards using a Hornady Vmax. Ive shot a bunch with a 308 too. Keep in mind other states have bigger "varmint" class pest than we do in cali and a 308 is rather popular for them.

That being said a 243AI is my favorite round after trying them all.

[smoothy8500]

Originally Posted by Gunsrruss

Not enough twist for me....I always like 1/10 or 1/11 in .308.....Or a 1/8 for .223

Back in the early 1990's my 700 Varmint shot Fed GM Match 168's and 175's very well despite being supposedly "handicapped" with a slow twist...

[echo1]

Originally Posted by MongooseV8

I hit a ground squirrel, a 308 is rather popular for them.

That being said a 243AI is my favorite round after trying them all.

This rig has done what's exspected of it.
It's had some trickery done to it since this test mule photo was shot.
Thanks Mongoose. PAX

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by Gunsrruss

Not enough twist for me....I always like 1/10 or 1/11 in .308.....Or a 1/8 for .223

1:12 twist is fine for 175's from a 26" long barrel.
It's only the shorter 20-22" barrels that need a faster twist due to their velocity handicap.
That's why 20" barrels are almost universally 1:10" twist.


Legit military M40's use a 24" 1:12 twist barrel and shoot almost exclusively 175 SMK's.
Do they seem to have accuracy problems?

Peak accuracy is attained with the minimum twist required for stability.

[condor]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

They really should just call it the 308 TARGET instead of the 308 Varmint, but it's called the Varmint because it's from a whole SERIES of rifles with the same barrel contour and length.

Sounds good to me... I guess an elk or moose is supposed to be considered a varmint?? :-)

[Gunsrruss]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

1:12 twist is fine for 175's from a 26" long barrel.
It's only the shorter 20-22" barrels that need a faster twist due to their velocity handicap.
That's why 20" barrels are almost universally 1:10" twist.


Legit military M40's use a 24" 1:12 twist barrel and shoot almost exclusively 175 SMK's.
Do they seem to have accuracy problems?

Peak accuracy is attained with the minimum twist required for stability.

Ok Randall I'm sold. The burning bush says it's Ok....

[RNE228]

I've only shot my early 80's vintage 308 Varmint with 165 Serra Game King and 168 Match Kings; it's a very accurate rifle out of the box.

Although I have not specifically looked for commercial varmint rounds, there has long been a selection of lighter weight varmint bullets for reloading in 30 caliber...

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by Gunsrruss

The burning bush says it's Ok....

I'd rather have a money tree than a burning bush.

If your bush is burning, they have a cream for that...

[LynnJr]

Peak accuracy is attained with the minimum twist required for stability.


Everyone should read and remember this.

[MongooseV8]

But over spinning a bullet really makes varmint hunting moar funner.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by MongooseV8

But over spinning a bullet really makes varmint hunting moar funner.

Gray vapor trails 10ft out of the barrel are fun to see once.

[NorCalFocus]

Originally Posted by condor

Sounds good to me... I guess an elk or moose is supposed to be considered a varmint?? :-)

Funny, cause I wouldn't even consider taking my .308 on a moose hunt, maybe an elk, but I would prefer not too.

[jimmykan]

I've gone one of these for sale:

Calguns.net - WTS Remington 700 SPS Varmint 308 WIN

[deadcoyote]

Hey Randall, to the subject of slower twist rate working in a longer barrel.... I was looking at a cz 557 varmint in .243 1:10 twist, 26” barrel.

I was thinking of loading heavier bullets, 103’s and 108’s, was concerned about stabilizing so was considering a savage 110 desert tactical in 6 creedmore as an alternative. I really like the style of the CZ better, you think it’s up to the task? I trust your judgement, you’ve always been spot on in the past.

[NorCalFocus]

Originally Posted by deadcoyote

Hey Randall, to the subject of slower twist rate working in a longer barrel.... I was looking at a cz 557 varmint in .243 1:10 twist, 26” barrel.



I was thinking of loading heavier bullets, 103’s and 108’s, was concerned about stabilizing so was considering a savage 110 desert tactical in 6 creedmore as an alternative. I really like the style of the CZ better, you think it’s up to the task? I trust your judgement, you’ve always been spot on in the past.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by deadcoyote

Hey Randall, to the subject of slower twist rate working in a longer barrel.... I was looking at a cz 557 varmint in .243 1:10 twist, 26” barrel.

I was thinking of loading heavier bullets, 103’s and 108’s, was concerned about stabilizing so was considering a savage 110 desert tactical in 6 creedmore as an alternative. I really like the style of the CZ better, you think it’s up to the task? I trust your judgement, you’ve always been spot on in the past.

At 1500ft elevation in warm weather, I found that a 1:9.5" twist (measured actual twist rate) 25" long Remington barrel would stabilize the 105 Hornady Amax but NOT the 107 SMK.
I don't know how your 103 and 108 bullet lengths compare to the Hornady 105 and the SMK though so I can't give a definitive answer.
Look up all the bullet lengths and compare them...

[MongooseV8]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

Gray vapor trails 10ft out of the barrel are fun to see once.

243AI 55 grain at 4200 out of a 1:8 twist, ive never spun a bullet apart.

[Sailormilan2]

Originally Posted by NorCalFocus

http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

This one works too.

http://kwk.us/twist.html

[LynnJr]

Originally Posted by MongooseV8

243AI 55 grain at 4200 out of a 1:8 twist, ive never spun a bullet apart.

It's not that hard to spin a bullet apart but it is easier to have friction heat up the heel of the bullet and see the puff downrange.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by MongooseV8

243AI 55 grain at 4200 out of a 1:8 twist, ive never spun a bullet apart.

I have.
You get a grey streak in the air about 10-15ft off the muzzle.
It almost looks like a shot cloud.

[MongooseV8]

I do notice the cheaper bullets throw fliers every now and then on my fast twist barrels. Im sure its the combo of rpm and jacket variances.

[JTROKS]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

I have.
You get a grey streak in the air about 10-15ft off the muzzle.
It almost looks like a shot cloud.

My Win 70 HBV 22-250 with a 1-14 twist will produce gray streaks when I load up with Winchester 64 grain PP bullets. Hear the bullet flutter as it breaks apart too.

[smoothy8500]

Originally Posted by JTROKS

My Win 70 HBV 22-250 with a 1-14 twist will produce gray streaks when I load up with Winchester 64 grain PP bullets.

That's odd, it seems to go against conventional wisdom concerning heavier projectiles in a slow twist?

[LynnJr]

Its surface area barrel length and friction that destroys bullets rotational forces run roughly 18,000 psi while acceleration runs 128,000 psi.
Berger Bullets had the engineers at MIT look at there bullets when they were getting poofs at 80 yards and that is when they went to the thicker jackets.

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...t-failure-test

[smoothy8500]

Thanks Lynn, that was an interesting read.

[JTROKS]

Originally Posted by smoothy8500

That's odd, it seems to go against conventional wisdom concerning heavier projectiles in a slow twist?

The bullets performed erratically. I would get a not so tight group at 100 yards and then 1 or 2 out of 10 rounds I’ll get a flutter sound and a gray streak. Same rifle shoots great with 52 grain HPBT up to 55 grain bullets.

Winchester 64 grain PP bullets shot great out of my Colt H-Bar 1-7 twist, Stag Arms Model 6 1-8 twist and TC Contender 21” barrel.

[LynnJr]

Originally Posted by smoothy8500

Thanks Lynn, that was an interesting read.

Back then we had a lot of good posters on that forum who really grasped engineering and bullet flight.